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December 10, 2008
Realtor help
This is slightly long:
Hey there,
I'm in a bit of a pickle with a realtor, and was hoping that perhaps you all on here might have some advice on how to rectify this situation.
As a back story, for several days at the end of last month, my partner and I thought we would have to leave our apartment, so we blindly started searching and blindly signed an application for one apartment, leaving with them about $1500- the first month's rent/deposit, which they told us was non-refundable unless we were denied the apartment. A day later, while browsing their site, we noticed an apartment that we were not shown, and requested to see it. Again, we blindly switched the application over to this new apartment (a studio) but did not initial, etc. the changes on the paper- the realtor took care of this at our request.
They did not run a background/credit check on me, so I am also owed that fee and there is no way that my partner alone could pass the application for said apartment.
Long story short, we no longer have to leave our home and want our money back.
We are pretty sure that we would be denied the studio based on my partner's income (in retail) and my poor credit store and low income (I am a full-time student and a part-time barista), but have a feeling they would approve us out of spite. The best they can offer us is to put the money towards another place- but by June. Again, we now have no intention of leaving our space. The last correspondance from the realtor was today and in addition to basically being told to fuck off we were also told that the manager doesn't make it a habit to contact clients.
In summation, we feel like we are being taken advantage of and also strongly believe that we are deserving of our money back, because to us, $1500 is nothing to sneeze at.
We are preparing to file a complaint with the Dept. of State in the hopes of getting some legal help.
Anyone out there have any other ideas, advice, etc?
THANK YOU!
Comments
uh this is why you don't deal with shady ass realtors and brokers. drr. sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. they are scummy vermin that prey on hard working people like you and your partner. always go owner direct when renting or go thru a management company that has their own brokers where you don't have to "pay" them.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 10, 2008 4:49 PM
We were under the impression that since it's pretty well-known and "is a full-service real estate brokerage company"(from their site) we'd be OK, but they have been nothing but arrogant.
We certainly learned a lesson, but would just like our money back!
Posted by: greentypewriter at December 10, 2008 4:56 PM
You signed a contract and left a deposit to hold the apartment. You changed your mind and thats fine but thats what deposits are for. Im not sure if you have legal recourse but ethically, you owe that money. No one scammed you.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at December 10, 2008 4:57 PM
What Mrs. L said. You can always just move.
Posted by: denton at December 10, 2008 5:01 PM
if i was you id fight like hell to get that money back, contract or no contract. just do it old school brooklyn style and go DEMAND your money back if you know what im saying. most brokers couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag anyway.
*Rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 10, 2008 5:13 PM
your legal argument sounds weak, so you have to go with equitable arguments and hope that they either convince the owner/broker to change position (arent' we talking about the owner here, not a realtor?) or that they convince a small-claims judge to rule in your favor (if it ever gets that far).
was the lease on the new apartment supposed to start this month? if so, your equitable argument is weakened considerably, since the owner may have been counting on you to occupy the unit and therefore stopped showing the place to other potential tenants. if, however, a substitute tenant was found in time, then your equitable argument is very strong, as the owner is getting a windfall of an extra month of rent at significant cost to you.
your best course at this point is to continue to harass them for your money back, including written correspondence and threats to sue if necessary. they may decide that it's not worth the effort to fight you.
Posted by: z at December 10, 2008 5:35 PM
No, this was only the realtor- and we never signed a lease. Just an agreement for the first apt. No initials, etc were ever given to change the application to the 2nd place- it was done out of the kindness of their hearts.
Posted by: greentypewriter at December 10, 2008 5:41 PM
What a self-entitled little prick.
He (or she)has no money but needs a new apt. Rather than hitting the streets like most people would in that situation, they enlist the services of a realtor, who, fairly enough, asks to be paid. He signs a contract (blindly 3 times) and now wants to be let out of it, well, because, "in our situation, it's nothing to sneeze at."
There's a reason your credit score is low and that's because you live your life like this. Your word means nothing and your signature means nothing. And now you'd like the government to bail you out. Why not, they're bailing everyone else out.
This is why the What is right. Asshats like this douche should be run back to Ohio, or Nantucket, Where Chip and Muffy can bail them out.
Rob, you're WAY out of line on this. Or have you had too many martinis to know the difference?
Posted by: guest_poster at December 10, 2008 5:43 PM
And the lease would not have started until January 1.
Posted by: greentypewriter at December 10, 2008 5:43 PM
Filling out an application is not the same thing as signing a lease. What was the $1500 deposit for? You don't owe the broker a fee unless they find you an apt. It sounds like a scam. I would contact the DA and the Better Business Bureau. See what they say, then consider sueing them in small claims. Also, BTW, this is not the way to search for an apt. You give them all the money at the same time in exchange for a key on the premises. And I don't deal with brokers either for this reason. Except ones that have been operating out of neighborhood storefronts for a long time and have reasonable contracts. Was this one of those, or did you find them through Craigslist?
Posted by: mopar at December 10, 2008 5:49 PM
i don't understand the business relationships here. normally when you work with a broker to find a rental, you pay them a commission based on the annual rent once you sign the lease. a deposit or application fee, on the other hand, is paid to the owner to secure the property and protect them against changes of heart (like you had). it's not clear to me why the broker would get to keep your deposit in this situation. is there a document signed by the owner? or are you dealing with a managing agent of some sort and not a traditional broker?
also, i'm not suggesting you signed a lease -- my question is whether you were looking to move in to the new place this month.
Posted by: z at December 10, 2008 5:49 PM
Hannible, Ohio would be the perfect place for you.
Posted by: mopar at December 10, 2008 5:50 PM
It mostly sounds to me as if you've just gotten an expensive lesson in being an adult. If I understand correctly, you were shown at least two apartments, on two different days. The realtor also made clear that the deposit was non-refundable. I can certainly appreciate that you felt pressured by your (misperceived) *situation,* but not apparently by the realtor. On the other hand, if the realtor never completed the credit check, and maybe never submitted an application for either apartment, there might be an argument for some bad faith on the realtor's part. You're probably much better off visiting the realtor with hat in hand, asking for copies of the report and application, and asking for a partial refund, than marching in making self-righteous (or even pitiful) demands. BTW, unless you're filing an international human rights violation suit, contacting the Department of State is not likely to get you very far.
Posted by: vinca at December 10, 2008 5:52 PM
Dept. of State- whoops. NYS dept. Of State. Yes, I understand the difference there.
Posted by: greentypewriter at December 10, 2008 5:59 PM
What Mrs Limestone said.
Posted by: jfss at December 10, 2008 6:48 PM
Mopar sorry I was busy to respond to you. I have a life and have got finish working on that down payment so I can buy my forclosed home. As for the poor lads who had the problem with the real estate brokers I know it is harsh but the best thing you can do is report them to the better business bureu and walk away with your lose. Please remember that real estate agents are nothing but blood sucking parisites. I think mopar is one of them. Now that the housing bubble is popped they have no more blood to suck from people so the try to get every drop they can from renters. Let me tell you they made a fortune renting out appartments. What parisites!
Posted by: hannible at December 10, 2008 9:18 PM
Read both my posts, Hannible.
Posted by: mopar at December 10, 2008 11:24 PM
Who "blindly" gives someone $1500? If realtors are sleazy-- and they are-- they are merely a reflection, a distillation of the public. Please define again for me what exactly a "deposit" is. Maybe I don't understand.
Posted by: annieny at December 10, 2008 11:36 PM
Let me use an analogy. Let's say you were a struggling street vendor selling a vintage suit. At 9 a.m. someone said, "I love the suit. Can I come by after work and pay for it?" "Sure, but you have to leave a $50 deposit." So they leave the deposit. Through the course of the day, 2 other people came up to you and offer to buy the suit. You turn them down. Then the person who put the deposit down comes back at 5 pm and says, "On second thought, I don't want the suit. Can I have my money back?" If you were the vendor, what would you say to this person?
Posted by: annieny at December 10, 2008 11:43 PM
Why do people, especially people who already live here, use a broker to find an apartment????
From the specific way you described it, you will only get the deposit back if you are denied the aprtment. Maybe yopu will be denied. Go through the process. Otherwise, you know the answer.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 11, 2008 9:15 AM
What these "brokers" are doing is not legal. Report them.
Posted by: mopar at December 11, 2008 12:01 PM
What these brokers are doing is what they have been doing for the last 20 years. They have been blood sucking anyone that tried to rent. You wanted high rents you had to go to them. You wanted to rent your appartment you had to go to them.Good now houses go back to the rightful owners and away from these heartless parasites. Calling real estate brokers parasites is of course offensive to parasites. I am so glad to see real estate broker after real estate broker go out of business.
Posted by: hannible at December 11, 2008 2:32 PM
If I am reading you right, the broker told you that the deposit was first-and-last and a deposit on the apartment, and told you that it was not refundable unless you don't get the apartment.
And now you don't want the apartment, but want your money back.
While I don't think it's good business practice for the realtor to be taking money from you before you get approved, I don't see the part where you are getting screwed. It sounds like the realtor was straightforward about your risk before you handed over the money, and that you handed it over willingly.
I understand that $1500 is a lot of money, but this sounds more like a lesson about being an adult than anything else--I think you're probably out your cash.
If you paid with a personal check, you might want to try stopping payment on the check. But be aware that this opens you up to the consequences of welching on the deal you made with the realtor. Just because what the realtor did was a little unsavory, I don't know that it was illegal, and I am absolutely sure that the realtor has more resources for fighting than you do.
If it makes you feel any better, I think that everyone else here has done something just as stupid or perhaps even stupider with their money. It's how you learn.
Posted by: vanburenproud at December 11, 2008 2:41 PM
vanburenproud, no licensed broker deals this way. It's a scam.
Posted by: mopar at December 11, 2008 3:23 PM
First, I feel sorry for you greentypewriter, because it sucks to lose money, but you really have no right to reclaim the money you put down. You knew the conditions going in.
"Why do people, especially people who already live here, use a broker to find an apartment????"
I spent weeks upon weeks searching for a 1-bedroom under $2,000 on Craigslist and through friends and had very little luck. Then, just for the hell of it, I peaked at the brokered listings. There were many, many sub-$2,000 apartments.
I ended up in a rent stabilized two-room studio for $1,300/month that I couldn't have found; it was listed exclusively through a broker. Even after the broker's fee, it comes out to about $1,500/month--far better than anything I found on my own.
Posted by: alsawo at December 11, 2008 3:36 PM
Ok, I am greentypewriter's partner. Here is the full story which we are submitting to the NYS Dept of State:
At the end of last month, my partner and I were told by our roommate that we had to leave our apt. In our state of distress, we contacted __________ about helping us find an apartment. We were shown two places and told them we were interested in the second one. The real estate agent then drove us to the bank where she informed me to get a cashiers check in the amount of $1525 to pay for the first month’s rent, which would help secure the apartment.
We were told that the first check was to cover the first month’s rent, and an additional payment would be required if we were approved that would cover the realtor fee and security deposit. We also gave an additional $120 to run two credit checks. When she drove us back to her office, she had us fill out a contract which said that unless we were denied the apartment, our deposit was non refundable. This was a Friday at about 5 PM. Two days later, while browsing their site, we noticed an apartment that we were not shown, and requested to see it. We preferred this apartment to the one that we filled out the application form for, and the realtor agreed to switch the application over (though we never filled out a new contract or signed anything for this new apartment). This apartment did not have a realtor fee. As I was going to be the only one on the lease, only one credit check was run. My credit was deemed excellent, but the realtor required even more information on my finances to complete and process the application. During this time (about two or three days), we found out that we did not have to leave our current apartment, and promptly informed the realtor that we would not be completing our application. We thanked her for her time and offered her a fee for the hours she worked, but requested our money back.
The manager then got back to us saying that they would not refund our money, even though we never signed anything for the second apartment and the application was never even finished to be processed. We are also owed $60 from the credit check that was not run.
Maybe this will shed some light on this situation.
Posted by: bustermcgillicuddy at December 11, 2008 4:24 PM
MOpar, I respectfully disagree. There's a difference between an unsavory broker that is probably not working in your best interests and a scam.
A scam = intent to deceive. The broker here did not deceive. The broker stated upfront that the deposit was not refundable except under specific conditions. The OP okayed this deal and gave the broker money. Now the OP wants her money back even though the specific conditions have not been met. Techncially, she's the welcher.
Is it true that you should never give money to someone until they are actually going to give you the apartment? Yes.
Is it true that honest, licensed brokers are not going to ask for money before they can guarantee you an apartment? Probably.
It's absolutely the case that this is a lame setup that the OP should not have entered into, and wouldn't have if she had been older and more savvy. But it's not a scam. The OP was told exactly what would happen if she changed her mind, and now she's changing her mind, and the only thing that's happening is exactly what the broker said would happen.
Posted by: vanburenproud at December 11, 2008 4:26 PM
Greentypewriter/Bustermcgillicuddy: For the sake of the help you claim you are seeking, it would help for you to name the agency, if not the agent. More complete facts and picture; less drama. It's hard to believe that a legitimate agency/agent would *drive* you to your bank for a cashier's check. Also hard to imagine how or why you'd willingly participate without a million alarm bells going off in your heads.
Posted by: vinca at December 11, 2008 6:02 PM
You actually let someone drive you to a bank and demand that you write a cashier's check for $1525 even though it would only "help" secure the apartment?
Posted by: StuyStone at December 11, 2008 6:46 PM
I can't believe all the shock at greentypewriter + partner putting down a deposit with their application that's only refundable if they aren't approved. Have you all not rented recently? In my apartment hunt over the summer, this was standard practice.
As unfortunate as your situation is, greentypewriter, I don't think it's the fault of the broker. Is there any way the apartment you thought you were going to have to leave can help you out? That misinformation is the only deception here.
Posted by: alsawo at December 12, 2008 11:11 AM
Greentypwriter and/or Bustermcgillicuddy,
I hope you'll let us know what you find out from the NYS Dept. of State. I'd really like to know if the realtor's conduct IS illegal.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 12, 2008 11:20 AM
What BMG's narrative described was delivery of a cashier's check BEFORE even seeing, let alone signing, a contract—something more akin to a Nigerian advance fee scam, then a "normal" real estate transaction. If GT/BMG's description is accurate, it leaves one thinking they ought to immediately start monitoring their bank and credit card accounts. Too many oddities in this story of both realtor's behavior and their own. Also odd, since BMG's update, no-one's mentioned that they have legal rights as tenants sharing an apartment.
Posted by: vinca at December 12, 2008 12:18 PM
To clarify a few things; we are sharing a two bedroom apt (that has no lease) with a roommate. I have a good relationship with the landlord as I have lived in the apt before. Our roommate was supposed to find a new apt by Dec 1, but a week before told us she couldn't afford to move yet. We have someone watching our cat and they could only watch him until Dec 1st. So we freaked out and got into this mess. Now we are staying as we realize that the landlord loves me, hence no lease/ security deposit. I will not name the realtor for legal reasons, but it one of the more well know real estate firms in the north Brooklyn area.
Posted by: bustermcgillicuddy at December 12, 2008 12:34 PM
You keep chattering on about details of the story that have nothing to do with the issue. The story of your roommate has nothing to do with the deposit and the realtor, neither does changing your mind about which apartment you were interested in. The realtor told you the situation with that particular apartment building and having to put down a deposit if you enter the application process. It is because they don't want to put an apt on hold for you if you're going to suddenly change your mind and walk away once they approve you. It's not unheard of; I've had to do that before. But if you find that unfair, here's the thing, you could have said no. The realtor may have walked you to the bank but it wasn't at gunpoint, was it?
I sympathize as it sounds like you were overwhelmed and stressed and not making the best decisions, but it WAS your decision. You'll have a hard time getting your money back. I agree with others that the only way to perhaps get your money is to state your case (simply with brevity, not babbling on about all this other stuff) apologize for the inconvenience and ask if they can make an exception and give you your money back. Don't act all outraged and entitled to it. Because you're not.
Posted by: traditionalmod at December 13, 2008 12:48 PM
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