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December 26, 2008
Free Working Boiler!
I have to give away a good condition and well maintained Weil McLain boiler. Works perfectly: It makes both steam and hot water. It is about 20 years old with about 20-30 years to go. It provided hot water and heat for a four family brownstone. We did renovations around it so it got a dusty but it has no rust and just needs a good clean. The photo shows dirt on the side, not rust. The water level meter is broken but can be fixed for about $120. Please call me asap if interested.
Gennaro Brooks-Church
347 244 3016
EcoBrooklyn.com
Comments
Ummm....that boiler is every bit of 40 years old and belongs, for safety's sake alone (never mind efficiency), in a scrap yard.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 26, 2008 6:47 PM
Getting that thing out of the basment is gonna be a task in it's self , has To weight at least 750 lbs.. Those fuckers are cast iron .
Posted by: slumlord at December 26, 2008 7:00 PM
Master Plvmber-
How would you judge the efficiency of this boiler vs. a new Burnham boiler in terms of dollars, all other things being equal.
Will this old boiler cost 50% more to operate each winter? 100%?
I'm talking heat only (using a seperate water heater). I only ask because I own a building with a very similar boiler (also in very good working/physical condition).
As always, thank you.
Posted by: MrHancock at December 26, 2008 7:59 PM
Mr. Hancock,
A boiler to replace that one (gas-fired steam) will run at about 82% efficiency.
That means about 18% of the heat energy gained by burning fuel such as natural gas will be lost through the chimney and jacket losses.
As boilers age they build up layers of crud on the inside and out that actually insulate the heating medium (internal water) from the heat of the burning fuel.
It is difficult to field-measure the efficiency of an older boiler but I usually find a loss of about one percentage point of efficiency per two years of age without serious maintenance.
That being the case, I would expect that boiler to run at about 60% efficiency.
Now there is more to fuel usage and costs than just boiler efficiency, so changing the boiler/piping and controls may give you that 20% fuel discount or more....but maybe less.
A big advantage to a new boiler is the safety controls and carbon monoxide cut off devices that are included with every new residential unit.
Hope that helps,
Me:
http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 26, 2008 10:11 PM
There are still lots of buildings in NYC with much older boilers than this one.
For the right owner, especially one with limited resources and low rent tenants, this boiler could be a godsend.
Seriously, for around $1500, you should be able to find somebody to disconnect it, pick it up in their van or truck, and install it in your basement.
Of course I realize most large plumbing companies would be more expensive, and you'd also need the plumber to file and later sign off on the job, so my $1500 estimate is a on the low end and requires some shopping around.
That said, the fifty+ year old oil burning boilers I used to have before updating and switching to gas make this thing look like the latest in modern technology.
Posted by: IronBalls at December 27, 2008 12:16 PM
When you find that person, please contact me immediately.
I want to subcontract them to install all my boilers from now on since they're doing it at a loss or simply don't incur the costs of insurance, licensing, labor, vehicle expenses, materials pertaining to removal/plumbing/electrical/cleaning/flue safety/scheduled follow-up service/warranty claim work, and permit fees.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 27, 2008 2:12 PM
Master P,
You could remove the old boiler in an hour and have it in place in another basement an hour later. Add one more hour for connecting and adjustments and presto . . . job finished.
For three hours work you pay two guys thirty or forty bucks an hour, pay a hundred bucks in filing fees, and Merry Christmas, you end up making a clean $1000 profit! Sure you have to pay the overhead you mentioned, but you pay that anyways.
At worst, It beats making something over nothing at all on a slow day.
I know most licensed plumbers in NYC milk the system for every last drop, which is the natural thing to do, but come on, dude. You know you'd still be ahead even charging $1500 for the job.
Posted by: IronBalls at December 27, 2008 2:31 PM
Yes. You are so right.
Evidently, I had the numbers all screwed up.
Thanks for laying out the expenses and timeline for us and enjoy your weekend.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 27, 2008 2:39 PM
No sweat, boss.
I'm always around to help.
Enjoy your weekend as well!
Posted by: IronBalls at December 27, 2008 2:42 PM
laughing now ...
Posted by: werner at December 28, 2008 2:47 AM
Nice to see this post got so many interesting comments. FYI I got two calls the first minute I posted it on Craigslist. I took the post down after that. It seems there IS a demand for this boiler. It might cost somebody without resources $1500 to move the boiler. But many people have resources.
For example the guy who is supposedly coming to get it is in the moving business. Lets say he also has a brother who can hook it up. I'd be surprised if it cost him more than $300.
I don't care how efficient it is at that price (well, that's not entirely true: I care for the environment...). But if he doesn't want to fork out a few grand right now for a new boiler it is a great solution!
And I feel good about not sending it to the landfill.
Gennaro Brook-Church
www.ecobrooklyn.com
Posted by: gennaro at December 28, 2008 9:35 AM
If someone's coming to get it, it's going directly to a scrap yard where the "movers" will be paid about $150 for its weight in metal.
If you're really committed to environmental preservation, as your website suggests, you know that reusing this boiler is completely irresponsible.
Congratulations on having it removed from your home for free.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 28, 2008 8:39 PM
That boiler may end up warming a family that otherwise wouldn't have reliable heat.
One day it will end up as scrap, but that day is likely years from now.
To claim that "reusing this boiler is completely irresponsible" without knowing the slightest thing about its true condition is bizarre.
Not to mention that Gennaro, the current owner, attests that it runs well and that it's in "good condition" and is "well maintained."
Not everybody has the money to buy a new boiler. What's wrong with using this one for a few years?
Posted by: IronBalls at December 28, 2008 9:32 PM
So then why isn't gennaro using it? After all, he/she has the environment in mind.
Why is gennaro buying a new boiler and not using that one until it takes its absolute last breath?
Why is that boiler good for someone else and not gennaro?
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 28, 2008 10:18 PM
IB: there's little or no indication that Gennaro gave this boiler away as an act of charity to anyone or anything other than his own pocketbook. Similarly for little or no indication of your own charity, or respect for the skills and knowledge of others, in the "Merry Christmas" solution. Personally, I find it alarming that someone blogging under "ecobrooklyn" would be so revealing as to declare "I don't care how efficient it is at that price"—as if preservation of greenbacks constitutes a superior ecological imperative. After noting that G also got free advice from MP on what system to install in the Weil McLain's place, and that G is now trashing the Fibertec window company, I'm grateful to have read enough to make clear that EcoBrooklyn is not an entity I'll ever want to do business with.
Posted by: vinca at December 28, 2008 10:28 PM
Vinca,
I don't understand your post. What does my "own charity" have to do with this?
I've been following this blog for years and I can't remember ever disagreeing with MP before. Since he's a plumber by trade, I can't imagine disagreeing with him if this were strictly a plumbing issue, which it is not.
We're jabbering on a blog about whether it's worth it for somebody with limited resources to take up an offer for a free old boiler that supposedly works well. I've personally spent thousands of dollars replacing boilers in multifamily properties and the question of whether it's worth spending the money on the upgrade is always a valid question, open for debate whether one is a plumber, a brain surgeon, or a garbage man.
Master P doesn't want the old boiler. I don't want the old boiler. But there are folks out there that do, so whatever Gennaro's motivation, what's wrong with his making a deal in which both parties is better off? He's not being selfish. He's being practical while at the same time helping a complete stranger.
Posted by: IronBalls at December 29, 2008 7:57 AM
The boiler is supposedly 20 years old...or could it be 40?
GBC supposedly HAS to give it away (along with the panini press on top?).
Supposedly it works well...except for that busted water level meter, and some dust that means nothing.
The guy who's taking it, let's just say he's a mover.
The "brother" who's going to hook it up, let's just say he'll never file the job.
The carbon footprint of the boiler (assuming it's delivered to a cellar, rather than a junkyard)...let's just say it keeps getting wider and deeper.
The safety of the building's tenants...let's just say that's not part of the equation.
Careful where you step...I'm smelling more than milk past the eyeballs.
Posted by: vinca at December 29, 2008 10:53 AM
ugh this is what is wrong with old brooklyn versus new brooklyn. get over yourselves.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 29, 2008 12:20 PM
Heh heh, the panini press looks highly effective.
Posted by: mopar at December 29, 2008 4:20 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have plenty of scrap metal friend who I could give it to if I wanted to send it to the yard. They would take it out for free.
So that negates one idiots claim that I'm just doing this to get it out for free.
The guy coming to take it, like me, seems genuine in his claim that he needs a good boiler and doesn't want to or can't buy a new one.
I can buy a new one and plan on buying a very expensive and efficient one because if you have the money that is the smartest thing to do.
An the idiot who said I don't care about the environment is, well, an idiot because they quoted me out of context.
This is fun.
And yes Fibertec sucks. I will bash them for a long time.
Posted by: gennaro at December 29, 2008 6:10 PM
That boiler is so going to the scrap yard for $150. Calling me an idiot won't change that.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 30, 2008 4:36 PM
Master Plumber I actually was calling somebody else an idiot not you :)
Posted by: gennaro at December 30, 2008 10:03 PM
Exactly who would that be that you were calling an idiot? Certainly a charitable, endless free-ad posting, surplus PolyISO-unloading, non-designy, ecobroker who can't figure out his own heat and windows soul like you is not scared to name names?
Posted by: vinca at December 30, 2008 11:43 PM
vinca i hadn't realized were paying so much attention to me! should i be flattered. but honestly trying to twist my post to say i don't care about the environment is a little low. maybe idiotic was too harsh but you know, in the spirit of brownstoner slag "idiotic" seemed appropriate at the time. but now that i know you read everything i post with such attention i retract my accusation entirely.
Posted by: gennaro at December 31, 2008 11:22 AM
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