Forum
« Affordable rents in Carroll Gardens parking in brooklyn heights »
December 5, 2008
fire escape question
i live in a 6 unit walkup in brooklyn. the three units which face the street, one of which is mine (3rd flr) don't have fire escapes. the back units do. my only egress is the central stairway. the building is four stories tall. i really am afraid of not having a fire escape and when i moved in, i was provided a chain ladder, which i've discovered doesn't fit properly. finding one that fits my window has been unsuccessful due to the thickness of the wall. am i entitled, by law, to a fire escape since i have only one way out? thanks to anyone who responds.
Comments
If you own, you know the developer is not coming back to install it. The DOB signed off on this bldg, so..
Retro fit that chain ladder so it DOES fit and you can escape, god forbid.
Posted by: pattunia at December 6, 2008 3:27 AM
there are a couple of different types of emergency escape ladder out on the market....do some online research and perhaps you'll find one which fits. Good luck.
Posted by: bricktop at December 6, 2008 7:13 AM
DID the DOB sign off on this? I think this is really the question to ask. First place to check is on the DOB web site.
Posted by: SenatorStreet at December 6, 2008 8:00 AM
Assuming the central stairway is surrounded by walls that have a 2 hour fire rating, I believe that, for a building your size, it represents a safe and legal exit passage in case of fire for both the front and rear apartments. My suspicion is that the front fire escape was removed for aesthetic reasons and that the rear fire escape was left in place for cost reasons. When you were provided with the chain ladder, was it the building owner who provided it to you and, if so, did you have a conversation with him then about the legality of the fire exits. If, in providing the ladder to you, he acknowledged any inadequacy of the existing arrangements and thought that giving you the ladder was fullfilling his legal obligations then, yes, you do have cause to be worried.
Posted by: johnife at December 6, 2008 9:03 AM
You did not mention the age of your building, whether it is sprinklered, and whether there is an accessible ladder to the roof with an unlocked hatch. There is a wealth of information available on the Fire Department's website, including this: http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/home2.shtml
FC 102.2.1 Existing permits and certificates continued. Permits and certificates for facilities, operations, conditions, uses and occupancies issued pursuant to the New York City Fire Prevention Code and in effect on the effective date of this code shall remain in effect until they expire unless sooner revoked or suspended in accordance with this code. Renewal of such permits and certificates shall be in accordance with the provisions of this code. …
FC 102.3 Lawfully existing facilities and conditions. Facilities, or parts thereof, lawfully existing on the effective date of this code, as to which the design or installation of a facility would not be allowed or approved under this code may be continued in compliance with the New York City Fire Prevention Code and other laws, rules and regulations or permit conditions applicable at the time such facility was lawfully allowed or approved, and as such provisions may be amended from time to time. Manufacturing, storage, handling or use of materials in premises under conditions that would not be allowed or approved under this code, but which conditions lawfully existed in such premises on the effective date of this code, may be continued in compliance with the requirements of the New York City Fire Prevention Code and other laws, rules and regulations or permit conditions applicable at the time such condition was lawfully allowed or approved, and as such provisions may be amended from time to time.
Posted by: vinca at December 6, 2008 9:36 AM
thank you all for kindly responding. first, i don't own, i rent. i actually acknowledged that there were no fire escapes and i asked the owner for a ladder, which he happily provided before i moved in. the central stairway, though i don't know the fire rating, is surrounded by heavy walls which are plastered (plaster is fire resistant) so perhaps the stairway is a safe exit. the building is quite old but i'm not sure exactly how old and there are no sprinklers. i suppose i should find out also just how close the nearest firehouse is.....
Posted by: blizzard at December 6, 2008 11:10 AM
This sounds like an old code building which must comply with the multiple dwelling laws(MDL). There are many classification of MDL buildings(New law, Old Law,Converted, FP, Non-FP, Tenament, etc)and each has specific requirements.If the building has no sprinkler system, its very possible that at one time there existed a single floor-through apartment that provided access to the FE at the rear of building. Subsequent Conversions may have split the floor into 2 units cutting off access to the FE. My experience is that if a FE is required for a unit on a given floor, it would be required for all units on that floor - iregardless if the unit front the street or the rear yard. This is a serious safety issue that must be confirmed with the Dept. of Buildings.
Posted by: 364house at December 6, 2008 2:13 PM
you hit the nail on the head i think. these are split units. the second floor is still one unit. seems like law would require an escape for each side. thanks and i'll contact the dept. of buildings.
Posted by: blizzard at December 6, 2008 2:55 PM
OP does not provide a clear distinction between tenant's fears and landlord's obligations, nor indicate landlord's lack of compliance with building code, fire code, housing maintenance code and/or multiple dwelling law. It is prohibited to add a fire escape to the front facade of buildings in landmarked districts where one does not already exist. From a liability standpoint, OP suggests that by "happily" supplying an escape ladder the landlord was more responsive to tenant's concerns than to his own interests. The landlord should have the following posted in the lobby/vestibule:
http://home2.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/rcny/rcny_form_fire_safety_plan_bldg_info_section.pdf
This second form contains additional fire safety information, at least part of which is the tenant's responsibility: http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/rcny/rcny_fire_safety_plan_2_emerg_info_sect.pdf
Posted by: vinca at December 6, 2008 5:09 PM
thanks again for your posts. well, i'm about 99% sure that i'm not in a landmark ditrict. does anyone know what a bare bones, basic fire escape would cost to install on a building like mine?
Posted by: blizzard at December 6, 2008 6:04 PM
If I were the landlord and I had tried to work with you (happily supplied a ladder) and you went to the Department of buildings without talking to me further, you would not have a happy landlord.
Posted by: Bond at December 6, 2008 8:13 PM
i agree with you entirely and i do intend to talk with my landlord first. my landlord has been very good to me. i have no intention of creating friction with him. i just have concerns and it makes me a bit afraid. thanks for your response.
Posted by: blizzard at December 6, 2008 9:57 PM
Maintaining a positive & productive dialog with your landlord should help in resolving. However, supplying a ladder as a means of complying with the building code requirements for a second means of egress from a unit in a multiple dwelling is unacceptable and not permitted in NYC. if the landlord was not aware of the code requirement, He should get this safety issue reviewed by an Architect or Engineer. The happiness of; or having a good landlord should not preclude the tenant from researching his or her rights. Remember - safety first.
Posted by: 364house at December 7, 2008 2:22 PM
I couldn't have said it better, 364house.
It wouldn't surprise me, blizzard, if your research determines that your apartment was created illegally. And though you may feel that the landlord has been very good to you, renting you an apartment which does not meet the minimum fire safety standard is not very good.
Posted by: Iris at December 8, 2008 9:54 AM
yes, this seems accurate as i've now viewed the multiple dwelling laws. thanks again for your responses.
Posted by: blizzard at December 8, 2008 1:51 PM
Refer to NYC Building Code section 27-366 regarding exits from floors. It appears your building only requires one per floor:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/bldgs_code/bc27s6.pdf
On another note, your landlord will never ever put back up an unnatractive fire escape, that is not required by code, to satisy one neurotic rental tenant.
Posted by: ppw_girlz at December 8, 2008 2:36 PM
Honestly, this is exactly the kind of thing that 311 is for. Call them. Say you live in a six unit building in whatever borough and want to know about fire codes.
Here are some starting points:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/tenants/how_to_report.shtml
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/firecode/firecode.shtml
I'm kind of amazed that it isn't easier to find that information.
Posted by: serpentor at December 8, 2008 4:27 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.