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December 2, 2008
Diners!!
Hi Everyone,
wanted to gauge your thoughts on the need of a good diner! My husband and I really want to open a food establishment but with more of a soul/southern style experience. We were thinking Red Hook as the only diner I know is Hope & Anchor and that gets mixed reviews. We live in Park Slope and the now that "The Usual" is gone and Grand Canyon is just "ok" - do you think a diner is a good fit
Comments
There is the Park Cafe on Berkeley and 7th which is basically a diner.
Also Bonnie's Grill is diner-like I'd say...
Are you planning on opening said business in Park Slope?
The soul/southern aspect sounds great!
Good luck.
Posted by: 11217 at December 2, 2008 2:59 PM
Purity and Little Purity have menus virtually indistinguishable from a diner's, but no soul food there.
Posted by: slopefarm at December 2, 2008 3:01 PM
what we were thinking of doing is opening up a place that
starts the day(7 days a week) at 5am and closes sorta early let's say -4pm. We wanted to cater mainly to the worker population in Brooklyn (hence the reasoning behind Red hook or even Gowanus area) serving inexpensive, good quality food - but it's a nice enough place and "foodie" enough for anyone to patronize.
I just think our area is missing that. I can't stand purity diner and have never been to Park Cafe - but was thinking those places were a bit north.
- I could be totall wrong - but who doesn't want a and egg & cheese scramble with biscuits,grits and bacon under $6 or a good muffin and coffee under $3?
Posted by: gemini10 at December 2, 2008 3:10 PM
yes, please! make it old school! lots of neon and a jukebox!
*Rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 2, 2008 3:10 PM
how about individual jukeboxes at each table
and 20% off for Brownstoner posters first month?!?!?!
aww man am thinking of giving notice to my boss right now - I work in the record biz and am OVER IT!
Posted by: gemini10 at December 2, 2008 3:12 PM
Please come to Cobble Hill. Miriam (Court at Baltic) just closed (it was terrible, no really, it was bad), and they used to be a sucessful diner type place (Hill Diner), and they decided for some insane reason to reinvent themsleves and it failed. Ok, it took a couple years, but it did fail.
That spot needs a good brunch/diner/burger joint.
Posted by: cobblehiller at December 2, 2008 3:20 PM
gemini10: Good, affordable worker food already exists in Park Slope, except it's found in places that many white collar folks walk past, for example, El Viejo Yayo (one on 9th St., another on 5th Ave.), El Gran Castillo de Jagua (on Flatbush), and other similar smaller places spread throughout. That aside, I think you have a wonderful idea and I wish you much success.
Posted by: vinca at December 2, 2008 3:26 PM
Southern breakfasts sound great! Does anybody remember Ms. Ann's Country Kitchen in Ft. Greene? If Ms. Ann felt like cooking she'd open up. I loved the salmon omelet and
cheese grits and biscuits. It was such a tiny, homey little place...
Gemini, I'd try for somewhere with a larger population and more foot traffic than Red Hook.
Posted by: Bessie at December 2, 2008 3:29 PM
Vince - I have been going to El Gran Castillo for YEARS - love love their food until I saw the big orange Health violation signs a few months back
I want a place where it's comfortable enough for workers, families, students to run in,grab a quick bite or lounge around. I really loved the "Usual" on Vanderbilt and thought they had solid food plus they loved their customers and you saw all colors and creeds there which made it more attractive. I just feel the nabe is getting a bit "snobby" about their food establishments and I think returning to the basics could serve us all a little better.
ok then... - will have to start my research
Posted by: gemini10 at December 2, 2008 3:35 PM
oh wow i totally used to remember mini jukeboxes on each table in diners!
*Rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 2, 2008 3:42 PM
You should look into Fulton Street in Clinton Hill - good deals on commercial space and the demand is there. Just got a new bakery etc...
Posted by: 1842 at December 2, 2008 3:44 PM
There's a diner on 86th St. in Dyker Heights or Bensonhurst with those little jukeboxes. Terrible food but jukeboxes are great.
Posted by: Bessie at December 2, 2008 3:45 PM
Sounds like a great idea, and I would love if you did it on 5th Ave! I find the 2 diners closest to me on 5th mediocre at best. (Don't remember the names - one is around 7th St and one around 10th.)
Posted by: mscrochety at December 2, 2008 3:57 PM
There is a Maria's restaurant that serves DELICIOUS diner food on 5th and Bergen.
Posted by: 11217 at December 2, 2008 4:26 PM
If I were going to open a restaurant, I would think Bed Stuy, and not just because I live here. It is the perfect intersection of need, density and low overhead.
There is nothing out here but a small handful of restaurants, each of which cater to a too-specific thing. Le Toukelour is specifically about that Afro-Carribean French food thing. Shakoor's Sweet Tooth is fucking incredible soul food, but it's take-out only and has irregular hours that occasionally disappoint. Peaches is great, but it's special-occasiony--a little expensive for everyday eats. Tiny Cup is fantastic, but it's a cafe, it closes early, no drinking, is always totally packed.
I would rather cut of my own arm and eat it for supper than work in a restaurant ever again (especially my own) but if I had the urge to open the kind of daily-eats-with-soul emphasis joint you are considering, I would study the Tiny Cup carefully and move its model to the nighttime sit-down restaurant like Hope and Anchor, but with much, much better food.
The Tiny Cup gals have a real grasp on what works in a gentrifying neighborhood. The food is consistently high-quality, they are dependable and the prices are excellent. You could eat there every day without getting disappointed, left hungry, fat, sick or broke.
The reason I would not consider Red Hook or Gowanus is density and existing market. Red Hook has plenty of places to eat, granted, mostly not very good, but they exist, and have a captive audience of relatively few actual diners. I know nothing of the Gowanus area, but have been out there and don't live there, so I know that there are destinations in Gowanus for eating and drinking already.
There is no such destination in Bed Stuy except Peaches and (hopefully soon) Saraghina, which are both offering something you say you don't want to offer.
Take advantage of the rent slump and find something near the Utica stop on the A.
Posted by: vanburenproud at December 2, 2008 7:20 PM
South Midwood, South Midwood, South Midwood.. specifically Foster Ave anywhere on the strip of retail between E 15th and E18th. You would make a killing, simliar to the specificity of the local places in Bed Stuy, we have some small excellent take out/joint type places but no diner, nor even a really good cup of coffee.
I really like Hope and Anchor, but its too hipster for what you are talking about (I think).
GL.
Posted by: Brooklyn11218 at December 2, 2008 8:13 PM
This is a bit of a stretch I realize, but maybe you could approach an existing restaurant that only serves dinner and see if they're interested in partnering with you for the morning hours. Not to deprive all the other posters urging you to set up shop in their neighborhood, but maybe a place like Barrio in PS would be interested in sharing space, reducing overhead and serving your version of a desayuno con grits platter. (When it comes to food, I find PS very 57 channels. However, I'm just plucking Barrio from the sky...no reason to think they would or would not be open to such an offer. Aside from the punishing hours of running a multi-shift operation, many chefs just hate the repetitiveness of cooking breakfast food.) When SOB's was first establishing itself 25 years ago, they set up shop in what used to be a very ordinary diner, preparing their wonderful Brazilian lunches for those of us who worked in the neighborhood, and converting to dance club only in the evening.
Posted by: vinca at December 2, 2008 8:59 PM
If you want to serve a breakfast and lunch crowd, try downtown Brooklyn. There are a limited amount of places for breakfast and lunch, and not many good ones. Luther's fried chicken on the corner of Jay and Willougby closed years ago, and the store was never rented again. That place was always packed, and the food was good and reasonably priced. The Mariott is on the next block, and is usually at full capacity with tourists. Metrotech is across the street, the DA's Office, Courts and NYC Transit are down the block. That's lots of hungry office workers.
Posted by: Bklyn born at December 2, 2008 9:13 PM
We would worship you if you opened in Crown Heights. We have nothing. You would be packed with happy and eager diners.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 3, 2008 9:37 AM
haha - thanks so much for all your support!
Posted by: gemini10 at December 3, 2008 9:52 AM
Didn't The Usual open back up? I could have sworn I saw it open again a couple of weeks ago.
Diner-wise in the Slope we also have Daisy's and Fifth Avenue restaurant, as well as a few others as you venture further south.
Third Avenue might be a good choice for the type of place you are envisioning. Downtown, as mentioned above, would also be an excellent choice. Probably better than Gowanus because of the number of possible customers and the relative dearth of decent lunch options.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at December 3, 2008 12:06 PM
You should check out Tom's Diner on Washington Ave and Park Place. They seem to have a great breakfast/lunch business.
Posted by: SJ at December 3, 2008 2:18 PM
Consider Windsor Terrace, south, by the park. Tons of families in the area who would LOVE a place to grab that kind of food and a more middle class, not so yuppie, clientele.
Posted by: WTbound at December 3, 2008 2:25 PM
I passed by The Usual today and it appeared to be open for business.....
Posted by: bricktop at December 3, 2008 3:21 PM
We need a diner in Bedford Stuyvesant. I have talked to many residents of the area and we all agree that a diner is need. Mikes in Clinton Hill the nearest one. That is over 150,000 people without a diner. Lewis, Stuyvesant and Thompkins Ave would be ideal places for something like a diner.
Posted by: Amzi Hill at December 3, 2008 3:29 PM
I hate to say but Crown Heights is another place that a diner would work. Franklin Ave is getting hotter everyday.
Posted by: Amzi Hill at December 3, 2008 3:32 PM
Too little too late, try Prospect Heights or North Crown Heights that only has Tom's which has very limited hours and is not open on Sundays.
Posted by: bmfesq at December 3, 2008 4:51 PM
There's already a new diner coming to Red Hook.. Why don’t you look to open a place in the Gowanus it’s also up in coming and has a bunch of hotel establishments that have opened...I actual have a commercial space that will be available for lease in the next coming months. It’s located on 3rd Ave between 8TH and 9th …email me at focused1186@yahoo.com if interested
Posted by: Gowanus_Bklyn at December 3, 2008 5:04 PM
downtown brooklyn is a good idea. another good idea is to stay open just long enough to serve dinner, like meat loaf style. especially if you have mini juke box at table style.
Posted by: werner at December 4, 2008 12:40 AM
it sounds like bubby's is the place youre describing. theres one in tribeca and one in Dumbo.
the secret would be to find a reasonable rent and low expenses so you can keep price points down.
Posted by: slick at March 22, 2009 5:50 PM
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