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December 5, 2008
Affordable rents in Carroll Gardens
I wanted to ask how much longer do we have to wait for rents to come down to affordable levels for families? There are alot of families that would like to move back into Carroll Gardens but can not afford to compete with landlords that rent to 5 or 6 adults that work and pay 500 dollars each a month making the joy of the homeowners wallet but destroying the happiness of many families
Comments
it's a yuppie town.... I had to move to bensonhurst because of the high rents.. I'd Rather have a 20 minute longer commute & be able to enjoy my life with my family, then to struggle to make the next man rich...
Posted by: alrosariojr at December 5, 2008 5:32 PM
I moved to Kensington because I got priced out of Carroll Gardens, so I feel you. But whadda ya gonna do?
Posted by: I_haz_TWO_toilets at December 5, 2008 5:42 PM
Well I don't know you guys but when I hear the government talk about bailouts for homeowners, smoke starts coming out of my ears. Home prices are going to have to come down it is just a matter of time.
Posted by: hannible at December 5, 2008 6:20 PM
I got priced out of Carroll Gardens after 14 years, but in a way I'm glad I did. It might have been a shorter commute, but in Flatbush I've got better grocery stores, just as good take-out places, and like the neighbors better.
Granted, I don't have kids/school to worry about.
What kills me most is the place I left because it was sold still is an empty building 4 years later.....
Posted by: Flatbushrising at December 5, 2008 10:13 PM
I think for rents to come down, there's going to have to be way more layoffs and people fleeing New York, don't you think so? I lived through the dot-com crash and people fleeing San Francisco and still rents did not come down. They just stopped doubling every five minutes. Landlords love their rent.
But oh if you're interested Make the Road and other organizations are asking their elected representatives to please abolish rent decontrol. In other words, every rent stabilized apartment would continue to be rent stabilized. They would not become decontrolled at the $2,000 mark.
Posted by: mopar at December 6, 2008 12:25 AM
Carroll Gardens has obviously become one of the most desirable neighborhoods in BK. Unfortunately for you, many other people, both singles and families, would love to live there as well. Unless there is a mass exodus as mentioned above, the demographics of who you are competing with for housing isn't going to change anytime soon. I would not hold my breath.
Posted by: squaredrive at December 6, 2008 1:24 AM
As much as you would love to live in Caroll Gardens, you just may not be able to afford it. We lived in an apt in Park Slope for seven years and when the two kids came along, space and outdoor space became an issue. We looked around for a bigger space and their was just nothing affordable. As much as we would have loved to stay we realized that we were just not a family that could afford to live in PS anymore. We moved to PS before it became and "it" nabe and compared to what apts are going for these days it was a steal.
So we now we live in Bay Ridge (with a yard.) We chose Bay Ridge because the public schools are great. Quite frankly I only miss one thing about the Slope, the park.
So my point is start to look in other parts of Brooklyn. Caroll Gardens is a great nabe but so other the outer parts of Brooklyn. Some previous posters mentioned some great areas and you should at least take a look.
Posted by: italiana71 at December 6, 2008 9:40 AM
Mopar,
Rents have already come down drastically just in the last few weeks -- even in Manhattan.
There's tons of vacant inventory out there and landlords are feeling the pain.
If the NYC vacancy rate hits 5% and the rent control/stabilization laws end, per the law, the market will be flooded with even more rentals and you'll see rents that we haven't seen in years. It's possible families would, at that point, return to Carroll Gardens.
That said, it likely the new Democrat controlled state senate would change the law in order to pander to their far left constituency and find a way to keep the rent control/stabilization laws around for ever.
Remember, there are about two million rental apartments in NYC and about half of them have "rent protections" of one kind or another.
Posted by: IronBalls at December 6, 2008 1:01 PM
Only if the economy really continued to tank would rents in Carroll Gardens go down. And at that point the rent would still be expensive since everyone's earning would go down proportionally.
They certainly have gone down but not by large amounts.
Carroll Gardens has too many nice qualities for the rent and housing prices to dip as much as the rest of the country.
A good alternative is Fort Greene and Clinton Hill. They have the same architecture and community but are slightly less in price, maybe 20%.
Gennaro Brooks-Church
www.EcoBrooklyn.com
Posted by: gennaro at December 6, 2008 1:22 PM
frankly, carroll gardens isnt entirely comparable to FG or Clinton Hill. I like FG as well as prime CH but they arent the same kind of neighborhood.
In terms of community, the closest are probably Windsor Terrace and Bay Ridge. Both of these neighborhoods have a similar italian history which impacts the neighborhood
Posted by: slick at December 6, 2008 6:00 PM
I have a 2br apt in park slope available, used to be a railroad apt. Was $2400 now $2000. 7th Street near 5th Ave. Email me for more info.
acrcontracting@optonline.net
Posted by: alrosariojr at December 6, 2008 7:21 PM
Well let me ask you is it sustainable to still ask for 500,000 dollars for a condo? If jobs are going to flee the city and we already lost 550,000 nation-wide rents will pull back in the whole city. Look at the resturants. How long do you think they can pay those high leases without people eating there. I don't know but if real estate agents in the area are closing shop it is not a good sign for the homeowners. And for homeowners I mean the ones that have payed for them and not the ones that bought a 500,000 dollar condo with zero down payment and then spend 3.00 dollars for gormet coffee every morning.
Posted by: hannible at December 6, 2008 8:30 PM
Most restaurants will survive because folks won't stop eating out unless they lose their jobs and burn through all their savings.
Rents are already dropping fast. Now is the time to negotiate for a cheap rent in Brooklyn on that Park Slope floor through with backyard access you always wanted.
I'd guess prime Brooklyn rents have dropped 25%-35% in the last few months.
Look on Craigslist if you don't believe me.
People are asking that famous age old question again: Why live in Brooklyn if you can live in Manhattan for the same price?
Posted by: IronBalls at December 7, 2008 8:35 AM
I have noticed that they have come down about 10 percent or so but I think they are going to come down by at least another 50 percent. If the city starts to loose even more jobs as are predicted do you still think we are going to get 6 unmarried peple to an appartment paying 500 dollars each? Carroll Gardens is going to have to go back to being affordable for families. You really think Court and Smith streets are going to remain streets filled with pharmacey, restaurants and Banks with the economy tanking? I don't think so
Posted by: hannible at December 7, 2008 11:57 AM
We're in Windsor Terrace, and rents don't seem to be coming down at all... not even sure why they would, since it seems to me that the damand for rentals is up with fewer people buying.
Posted by: curiositykilledthecat at December 7, 2008 12:24 PM
Good point the nest big movement is going to be in the condo market. All those half a million dollar condos are going to be a thing of the past condo prices are going to have to come down to 190,000 to 240,000 to find suitable buyes. But don't tell the sellers and the real estate agents that. They will tell you it ain't going to happen.
Posted by: hannible at December 7, 2008 1:08 PM
Rents are down only slightly in the prime Brooklyn neighborhoods. About 5% or so. Same in Manhattan.
1 bedroom apartments in Manhattan were down about $60 a month...the average is still around $3100 a month for a 1 bedroom.
Rents will dip slightly, but will begin to hold steady and probably increase as housing prices decline.
There is zero precedent for rents to fall as drastically as some of you mention. In the building next to me, they were renting a 1 bedroom for 2300 and they rented it in a day. 40 people were interested and my friend who was interested didn't get the place. This was about 2 weeks ago. A small 1 bedroom in Park Slope. I consider that high, and I don't see prices down that much at all.
Posted by: 11217 at December 7, 2008 5:48 PM
Have a little more faith 11217 six months ago most homeowners were all saying that the rents and the prices of homes and rents were going nowhere but up. People also believed the Titanic to be unsinkable. Wait and see once unemployment benefits run out most people will leave the city in serch of work. It is a mathimatical certainty.
Posted by: hannible at December 7, 2008 7:59 PM
Hannible, any way for you to substantiate the BS you're shoveling?
From the NYS department of labor, unemployment as of October 2008:
NYC--5.7%
NY State--5.7%
United States--6.5%
So, everyone's going to leave NYC to get jobs where, exactly?
Posted by: curiositykilledthecat at December 7, 2008 9:49 PM
curiosity: Detroit. Thosands are fleeing NYC, as we speak, to work in the burgeoning domestic auto industry. Didn't you hear? Rent reductions of 90% by spring.
Posted by: squaredrive at December 7, 2008 11:20 PM
People didn't leave NYC in search of work in the Great Depression...in fact the city's population increased by over 20% that decade.
What makes you think they're leaving now?
And for what jobs, exactly?
You really believe 8 million some odd people live in NYC just for the jobs...?
I believe they live and move here for reasons that go far beyond just that...
Posted by: 11217 at December 8, 2008 1:48 AM
Curiosity you must be one of those homeowners or real estate agents that does not want to face reality. You are right we will all get jobs as financial brokers on Wall Street. This is a city of immigrants and families called this place home until greedy speculatures decided it was time to turn it into a turkeyshoot. I know our wonderful major said not too long ago that there is still room for another 1 million people in the next ten years. I guess we can all add inflatable mattresses in out hallways to achieve that.
Posted by: hannible at December 8, 2008 5:59 AM
The demographics of the city-- aging population, additional immigration, and more NYC residents being born than dying point to an upward expansion of NYC by 1 million in the next 20 years. There is pretty much consensus on this. More housing will be needed long term, and more pressure will be placed on existing housing. All of this points to increased demand and higher rents over the long haul.
Posted by: squaredrive at December 8, 2008 10:29 AM
It's so cute that you think greedy speculators in New York are a new phenomenon, hannible.
As opposed to the people who threw out the Native Americans and paid a dime for New York.
Posted by: 11217 at December 8, 2008 11:31 AM
Well at least the Dutch paid cash. Most of these "homebuyers" are looking for the government to bail them out. If I could pay rent for not being stupid enough to buy at bubble prices let them live under a bridge. Trust me there are plenty of buyers waiting to buy they are just waiting for prices to come down another 500-600 percent
Posted by: hannible at December 8, 2008 5:26 PM
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." —Anatole France, The Red Lily, 1894. Also Anatole France: "That man is prudent who neither hopes nor fears anything from the uncertain events of the future." And: "It is human nature to think wisely and to act in an absurd fashion."
Posted by: vinca at December 9, 2008 12:26 AM
These are all quotes from the pre modern era. They were from a time when families lived together and cared for each other. They believed in some form of church structure, Look at us we turned all the churches into condos. We are forced to live like animals 3 or 4 to a room. If this is considered luxuary living?
Posted by: hannible at December 9, 2008 12:48 AM
Too bad your attention is too far up a post-modern tunnel that you missed the irony of the Anatole France extracts. I grew up in a 3-generation household where lives and rooms were gladly shared. Never did we believe this sharing constituted deprivation or reduced us to "living like animals." Never were we fixated on attaining "luxury living" in separate cubicles. You want something modern? Try these: “Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.” —Lenny Bruce. And, "You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
—Anne Lamott.
Posted by: vinca at December 9, 2008 10:03 PM
Vinca it is perfectly fine to have a loving family of 10 sleeping in one room, what I have an issue with is 4-6 perfect strangers living together just to afford to pay rent to some slumlord.
Posted by: hannible at December 10, 2008 9:27 AM
Hannible, if you are really the age you claim and grew up in Carroll Gardens as you claim, then you would know that in the 1930s whole families shared those one-bedroom floor-throughs. The parents got the front room, and all the kids (girls and boys together) got bunk beds in the middle room without the window. And if you lived in New York as you claim, you would know the newcomers in Carroll Gardens have plenty of space and do not share it with strangers.
Posted by: mopar at December 11, 2008 3:19 PM
You call the 4 to 5 people sharing an apartment friends? Makes no difference to me or the landlord as long as they are paying their rents right? I can tell you my family was paying 250.00 dollars a month in 1980. Now for the same place well I will not go there.. you figure it out
Posted by: hannible at December 11, 2008 5:56 PM
Hannible, your posts are bizarre. Do you even live in New York? The situation you describe would be very unusual in Carroll Gardens.
Posted by: mopar at December 11, 2008 7:18 PM
Yes I do Oh Grand King Mopar, Please enlighten a poor peasant like me on what it is like to live in the great Kingdom of Carroll Gardens
Posted by: hannible at December 11, 2008 10:44 PM
Hannible, I would not be surprised if your parents left shortly after 1980 because they gave birth to you, which would explain why your memory of the place is so terrible. These days, most rental apartments in Carroll Gardens are 1.5 bedrooms with all rooms open to each other. The rental apartments are usually occupied by childless couples, who pay between $1000 and $1200 each to split one apartment. The owners live in fairly spacious duplexes and triplexes, and have children. Of course, there are exceptions, including rent-controlled places where families share railroads, just like they did back in the 1930s when it was an Italian slum.
Posted by: mopar at December 12, 2008 5:46 PM
It will shortly return to the old glory days of being an Italian slum like you call it. Tell me you upset with italians because they tried sleeping with your sister? Don't feel bad about it. Italians pay cash. You on the otherhand.....
Posted by: hannible at December 12, 2008 8:41 PM
Huh? I am not upset with the Italians. Just pointing out that its "glory" days that you seem to pine for were in 1870.
Posted by: mopar at December 13, 2008 12:35 AM
As long as there are hipsters that want to be "urban trendy" and run around the city looking at all the real new yorkers like its an f'n safari or something my rents will only go up ,thank you.......Tthe fact is that there will NEVER be a shortage of yuppies here....ITS NYC...they are taking over....believe it....Homeowners are ppl too that had to struggle to get a home and should not be at the mercy of ppl who can only afford to rent due to the fact that in thier eyes its not "Fair"....boo-hoo.....I've got a mortgage to pay.
Posted by: Xx8ManxX at December 13, 2008 10:39 AM
correction "should not be at the mercy of ppl who can only afford to rent somewhere LESS DESIRABLE TO THEM." sry.....I love my tenants.
Posted by: Xx8ManxX at December 13, 2008 11:27 AM
I am glad that you love your tenents. I am angry at homeowners who are whinning about not getting their 400.00 dollar city check. I am also angry that people bought homes way over their heads and now expext the government to help them out. If homeowners get a bailout I as a renter want one too.
Posted by: hannible at December 13, 2008 6:02 PM
That is actually an interesting idea, Hannible. Since you are right that rents go up as housing purchase prices increase (in the city, and in multi-families. This does not apply to commercial property nor coops.) I could be wrong but I believe the political reason for any mortgage renegotiation is to increase purchases on credit and prop up the whole messed up system again. Because if it comes to a halt, we're all in a mess. Though we're already in a mess.
By the way, one thing you should know: People in "prime" Brooklyn -- Carroll Gardens, Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, and so on -- were not given subprime mortgages. So if they do get in trouble, it will be because they lost their jobs AND were subsequently unable to sell for break-even. This is probably going to be a fairly small number of people.
My point is that homeowners in "prime" Brooklyn are not likely to be ones that will get mortgage renegotiation/bailout/handout/etc.
Posted by: mopar at December 13, 2008 10:01 PM
Let me ask you. Price of an average condo in "prime" Brooklyn 190,000 dollars 1999-2000. Price paid for that same condo in 2006 550,000 dollars. You see no market deformity there? It seems normal and sustainable to you? Why is there no rush to finish all those unfinished condos in "prime" Brooklyn? I know quit a few who have subprime loans in that area.
Posted by: hannible at December 13, 2008 11:00 PM
There are condos in Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, Fort Greene? That's what people on this forum mean by "prime" Brooklyn. I thought it was mostly multi-family brownstones and a few coops. I realize there are a lot of unfinished condos in Williamsburg and other areas. I am not going to argue that the prices on those "luxury" condos are reasonable or unreasonable. They always seemed undesirable and a blight to me. They're not built for families. As for subprime loans, they're concentrated in Bushwick, East Flatbush, and Queens.
Posted by: mopar at December 14, 2008 1:52 PM
Almost a year later and rents are still coming down!
Posted by: hannible at October 10, 2009 7:00 PM
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