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November 8, 2008
The Asshat Weekend Edition.
Stunned Icelanders Struggle After Economy’s Fall
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/world/europe/09iceland.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
"This country, as modern and sophisticated as it is geographically isolated, still seems to be in shock. But if the events of last month — the failure of Iceland’s banks; the plummeting of its currency; the first wave of layoffs; the loss of reputation abroad — felt like a bad dream, Iceland has now awakened to find that it is all coming true."
Keep Fucking Around...
Comments
I was fucking around all weekend and will be fucking around all week.
BTW Iceland is offering really cheap travel deals to suck in some dollars, I'm thinking of sending da kid. Plenty of Couchsurfers!
Posted by: denton at November 9, 2008 4:27 PM
No Denton. I was referring to the collapse of a country and it's currency. This is a global crisis that effects everyone. Next up on the implosion show is Ireland.
Strange days ahead..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 9, 2008 5:40 PM
I too was f%^&ing around all weekend and will be F&^%ing around all week. But first, lets see this market rally because China is pumping $600 B into the economy!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 10, 2008 9:07 AM
"I too was f%^&ing around all weekend and will be F&^%ing around all week. But first, lets see this market rally because China is pumping $600 B into the economy!!!"
You know something Dave? I was waiting for the first Asshat and that's you. This should be a "oh shit" moment because China has decided to use their money to fund itself. This means they wont/can buy US Treasuries and interest rates are going up plus, they will be selling their holdings of US debt. That figure is around 2 trillion dollars and that sucking sound will be you equity.
The What (Keep fucking around)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 9:17 AM
You've got no idea what you are talking about re: China buying US treasuries.
And I wasn't the first Asshat, denton was.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 10, 2008 9:19 AM
Oh I forgot about this AIG Gets Expanded Bailout, Posts $24.5 Billion Loss (Update2)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoj_ojzEcu9w&refer=home
Taxpayers will take on more risk to give Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy time to salvage AIG, which needed U.S. help to escape bankruptcy in September after at least $40 billion in quarterly losses tied to home mortgages. Liddy's plan to repay the original loan by selling units stalled as plunging financial markets cut into their value and forced potential buyers to shore up their own balance sheets.
I know you love this one too Dave. The American Tax Slave has been ripped off! Let's pray there is some money left for Obama .
The What (Keep fucking around)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 9:21 AM
What - i think you are right on with this. My husband and my neighbors were just talking about the Iceland crisis recently. I don't know about the rest of these folks but we are stocking up on water, rice & canned goods. if all goes well, we will have plently to eat - if not, don't come knocking on my door. i have my children to think about!
Posted by: bkny at November 10, 2008 10:24 AM
Good morning What, sorry I missed the weekend post.
What makes you think that Ireland is next - is there something that you've read that points in that direction or is it more of an impression you have based on the incredible growth they've seen over there?
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 10:34 AM
Bkny only Government intervention is the only thing saving us from a complete meltdown!
The What (Keep fucking around)
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 10:36 AM
bkny,
Now I know who to blame. When I got to the store, the shelves were all empty. You and your neighbors beat me to it.
Posted by: slopefarm at November 10, 2008 10:49 AM
"Bkny only Government intervention is the only thing saving us from a complete meltdown!"
That would seem to be the thing that separates us from countries like Iceland, that our government has a greater capacity for intervention.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 10:53 AM
What makes you think that Ireland is next.
There is chatter on Ireland! The Mutant Asset Bubble over there was crazy and asset prices are 50% down. The IMF and Britain is looking to shore up capital for Ireland.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 10:53 AM
wasder - mob mentality is definetly in effect. my neighbors got me nervous. so i was like, what the heck - can't hurt to have a lot of non perishables around, especially with kids. secretly it's for the fall - i won't admit that out loud.
Posted by: bkny at November 10, 2008 11:02 AM
I listened to something on NPR after the news conference Friday. It was a long story about how the Bd. of Ed in a small town in the Midwest, unable to meet its pension obligations, voted to invest in a mutant asset I can't remember the name of. They borrowed money at x% and invested it at x%. There was a 1% difference in their favor. They had to borrow an unbelievable amount of money to generate 2 million a year. Now the mutant asset is bankrupt and so is the town.
It's complicated, and I don't really get it, but the Midwest mutant asset came from her German bank that moved to Ireland due to the lack of regulation. The German bank is now a huge Irish mutant asset on the verge of bankruptcy.
And somehow, the City of Philadelphia is also involved in that mess, because the insurance company that guaranteed their municipal bonds is also broke.
So! Dave is going to laugh at me, because finance is obviously not my thing but, China aside, the What has a point about Ireland. And it seems to me that people with money who invested in quality municipal bonds are not even safe, and that's saying something.
Posted by: QuartersB at November 10, 2008 11:35 AM
QuartersB - Was it this one on the Wisconsin School Board?
The Reckoning
From Midwest to M.T.A., Pain From Global Gamble
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/business/02global.html?scp=2&sq=Wisconsin%20School%20Board&st=cse
Actually, I think this is a really good profile of the MAB, no?
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 11:43 AM
Yes, I think that's based on the story I heard, because the article mentions the German connection. I bet you can stream the whole story on the NPR website.
The What is right about how the tentacles of this thing extend just about everywhere.
Posted by: QuartersB at November 10, 2008 11:51 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/nyregion/10office.html?ref=nyregion
i think that is the sound of the other shoe dropping..i love the insular NYC commercial market.hahaha
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 12:33 PM
Ah the pleasant sociable stylings of derwood. Lets laugh at misfortune and pile on. So glad to see you agaiin.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 12:48 PM
touchy, touchy..what has the WHAT done done for the last 2 years! i forgot people like to talk about their dinner dates on this informative site..
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 12:51 PM
I'm thinking about having a "Keep fucking around" series on the implosion of the Mutant Asset Bubble. This thing is GOBAL!!!!!!
The What (Yep Keep Fucking Around)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 12:53 PM
I will keep fucking around as long as I am breathing What. But what does GOBAL mean?
derwood, what do you get out of coming on here and chortling? How does it serve your personal good?
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 12:56 PM
A "Keep Fucking Around" Holiday party seems to be brewing no?
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 12:57 PM
Sounds like fun to me.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 10, 2008 1:03 PM
wasder get the thong out of your backside and contribute something of intellectual value. writing about the impending implosion of nyc commercial meltdown would be of some value on a NYC REAL ESTATE BLOG!! if you can't figure that one out that maybe you should limit your whining contributions!. why would it bother you if I post??? look at the thread you are commenting..is the icelandic meltdown meant to be a feel good article?? damn i had actually attributed a shred of import to your previous comments..
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 1:05 PM
The whole world was in Vegas these last several years. Now it's Sunday afternoon and everybody's lining up at Western Union, cell phone in hand.
What a numbers racket.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 10, 2008 1:05 PM
"A "Keep Fucking Around" Holiday party seems to be brewing no?"
Wasder, I smell a Derwood POOWEING coming on! If I was you I would stay out of this thread but you are a hard headed Asshat. Hey Derwood you have the floor!
"The whole world was in Vegas these last several years. Now it's Sunday afternoon and everybody's lining up at Western Union, cell phone in hand."
Before the Asshats left for Vegas they forgot to pay the cell phone bill. Error 437! Now we will direct you to customer service, please hold...
The What (Keep fucking around)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 1:12 PM
derwood---I contribute all kinds of things to this site, ideas, thoughts, encouragement, criticism etc. Yes, writing about the impending real estate meltdown is valid on this site but when I see people come on with an article that is only tangentially related to the topic at hand and go hahaha at the end it makes me feel like this person is only here to have a good laugh at other people's expense and I call it out. I did discuss things with you last week when you were asking questions and anytime you have something substantive to say I will get into it with you. But if it feels like you are here to get a laugh then I will call you on it. That's just me though. I don't speak for anyone else.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 1:13 PM
" I see people come on with an article that is only tangentially related to the topic at hand and go hahaha at the end it makes me feel like this person is only here to have a good laugh at other people's expense and I call it out. "
Hey when the Asshats was cheering on Gentrification, Raising Real Estate prices, rising rents and the smashing of middle class families in NYC. I did not see you taking up the cause for those people and now you want to whine because the Asshats are getting POOWED. Fuck are of you!!! Wasder stop whining and take your lumps...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 1:18 PM
Hey when the Asshats was cheering on Gentrification, Raising Real Estate prices, rising rents and the smashing of middle class families in NYC. I did not see you taking up the cause for those people and now you want to whine because the Asshats are getting POOWED. Fuck are of you!!! Wasder stop whining and take your lumps...
As I had never even heard of this site before this past May it is kind of hard for me to accept blame for gentrification cheerleading on this site. Ever since I have been here it has been doom and gloom on the menu and I have been I think quite even handed in the way that I have approached both ends of the argument.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 1:23 PM
Ah ha ha ha!!! I'm laughing too. I don't care who gets hurt. The writing has BEEN on the wall for years. Prices need to come down already. Enough is enough. It's our (those who didn't fall for RE only goes up) turn to laugh. And you know what? It's mad funny. It's hilarious. Ah ha ha ha!!!
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 10, 2008 1:26 PM
wasder, I think you meant 'the dulcet tones' of derwood.
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 1:28 PM
tangentially related!!!?? you have no problem with an article about ICELAND, and I'm bringing you info that Mr.Rogers your next door neighbor is a friggin' pedophile and that's tangential!!?this is of utmost importance! this is your job and my job that are involved and that is tangential..damn..stop sniffing the glue. the hahaha reference was to the douchebags in the financial firms(that are no longer with us) that would laugh at us when were offering assistance in liquidating their rather illiquid commercial portfolios telling us that particular ASSet class were star achievers and that we should go home..to these morons i scoff and laugh and b4 you pigeonhole me for another brainless Biff, remember i can answer questions, yeah my writing blows and I irritate you like a coffee grind in your latte but i'm here to stay so get used to that run on sentence and many more to come!!
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 1:29 PM
"Ah ha ha ha!!! I'm laughing too. I don't care who gets hurt."
That's awesome DOW. I am sure your wife would find that sentiment charming. What is wrong with you people? The bubble was everybody and nobody's fault all at once. But not caring about the fate of people who will see their life savings go up in smoke is a new level of callousness on this site.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 1:31 PM
i know this is "tangentially related" but have other folks seen the swell of articles related to the commercial crash..any thoughts of timing for the crash, i see the 2nd quarter 09?
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 1:35 PM
"The bubble was everybody and nobody's fault all at once."
Here is some advice Wasder. STOP LOSS. You are in hostile territory and just stop your loss, unlike the other Asshats that are underwater. Derwood is gonna shave your head with a chainsaw! Go away...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 1:35 PM
"Here is some advice Wasder. STOP LOSS. You are in hostile territory and just stop your loss, unlike the other Asshats that are underwater."
What does this advice entail What? To sell now?
"Derwood is gonna shave your head with a chainsaw!" Derwood is this true?
DOW--the more I think about it I am sure you will regret writing what you wrote there. Friends of yours and your wife's will be hurt and it is hard to imagine that you won't care. You are smarter than writing something that stupid and inflammatory.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 1:41 PM
My point about it being everyone and no-one's fault all at once is that you (What, derwood, DOW, whoever else is so pleased at the implosion) seem to be unable to recognize that while on macro terms it is easy to read the contours of an asset bubble, from a micro perspective (once everything is entangled with the particulars of any given family's life) it is very hard to identify a path that does not exacerbate the situation. I for one was aware of the larger issues of the asset bubble (thanks to this site and to the What in particular) but at the same time I weighed the costs of buying versus the costs of staying (both financially and lifestyle wise) in my two bedroom and buying the house still made the most sense. So I think you guys are insanely reductionist to imagine that any individual family would be able to weigh their choices only in the realm of macro economics and not in the realm of their day in day out life. We all live in NYC and none of us made the "rules" of real estate.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 1:46 PM
i reserve the chainsaw for dopey comments from biff..wasder you do your best, a little excitable for my taste but hey no one's perfect, though i dont think you afford me the same respect..
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 1:46 PM
derwood--seriously I will try to read what you write with respect how is that? I am sorry if I got short with you about the haha thing. You are perfectly in your rights to say what you said, as much as to me it sounds immature. How is that?
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 1:49 PM
"Friends of yours and your wife's will be hurt and it is hard to imagine that you won't care."
I cared when I tried to warn them. I was ridiculed. Aint got nothing but laughter now. But seriously, you're right, I don't enjoy the suffering of those close to me. But I don't feel too bad neither. They were warned. As for strangers, ah ha ha.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 10, 2008 1:52 PM
"Derwood is gonna shave your head with a chainsaw!"
Sorry Asshats, I just lose it a little bit. Derwood is being a troll and will aslo get POOWED by me soon. Buts for now wasder, get lost so I can have a nice circle jerk with Derwood and DOW now.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 10, 2008 1:58 PM
DOW--I am digging your ain'ts and neithers (not). How about some "no hows" too? You are a schizophrenic poster, or a shape shifter. Are you an educated person working in the financial industry or are you some crank who forgets basic rules of English. I don't bother calling What on that kind of thing because he has never made any attempt to write with any semblance of grammar or correct spelling. You on the other hand occasionally sound intelligent. What's up with that?
In re what you actually said, the people that you don't know who get hurt are probably not too different from the people that you do know so the haha is still pretty savage.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 1:59 PM
I say bring back the stockades for the fools that invented this stuff, and for the fools that bastardized it, and for the fools that then repackaged it and sold it, and repackaged it and sold it, and sold it again.
We can start with these three...
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 1:59 PM
"Buts for now wasder, get lost so I can have a nice circle jerk with Derwood and DOW now."
Who's got the biggest cock at your trough of depravity?
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 2:00 PM
"We all live in NYC and none of us made the "rules" of real estate."
Yeah, we did. Now we're gonna unmake them. Reverse bidding wars. Sellers line up.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 10, 2008 2:02 PM
"Who's got the biggest cock at your trough of depravity?"
cobblehiller probably. POOWED!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 10, 2008 2:04 PM
"Sorry Asshats, I just lose it a little bit. Derwood is being a troll and will aslo get POOWED by me soon. Buts for now wasder, get lost so I can have a nice circle jerk with Derwood and DOW now.
Return_of_The_What"
Nice but one thing. People know full well I did not write that shit!
That's OK. Watch the implosion of the Mutant Asset Bubble a sight to behold.
My money is on Dave...
Oh Dow remember when you tried to warn people about the MAB and they would laugh at you? They would say you was jealous and you was a fool for not buying now? That was so 2005, seams like a lifetime ago..
The What (Fuck All of You!)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 2:08 PM
This is me: RETURN OF THE WHAT'S PROFILE
Fraud: RETURN_OF_THE_WHAT'S PROFILE
Nice going Dave..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 2:13 PM
"Sorry Asshats, I just lose it a little bit. Derwood is being a troll and will aslo get POOWED by me soon. Buts for now wasder, get lost so I can have a nice circle jerk with Derwood and DOW now.
Return_of_The_What"
"Nice but one thing. People know full well I did not write that shit!"
So who did What??? The signature looks like yours...
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 2:13 PM
"Nice but one thing. People know full well I did not write that shit!"
I just POOWED myself!
The What (Fuck All of You!)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 10, 2008 2:14 PM
"Nice but one thing. People know full well I did not write that shit!"
I just POOWED myself!
The What (Fuck All of You!)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 10, 2008 2:14 PM
How did "we" make the rules of NYC real estate? For myself they have always been highly unpleasant realities that I had to navigate but i never thought I could control personally. How, DOW, did the readers of this site make the rules of NYC real estate?
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 2:16 PM
"So who did What??? The signature looks like yours..."
This is me: RETURN OF THE WHAT'S PROFILE
Fraud: RETURN_OF_THE_WHAT'S PROFILE
Figure it out..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 2:19 PM
oh, nevermind. cripes, you guys really go too far.
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 2:20 PM
Unless your just another Asshat that can't figure anything out, like dow and derwood.
The What (Fuck Me!)
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 10, 2008 2:22 PM
yep, I got it What.
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 2:23 PM
"How, DOW, did the readers of this site make the rules of NYC real estate?"
They fall for the hype and overpay. Participation.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 10, 2008 2:30 PM
Dow, STFU already!!!! You doens't even care about your wife and kids future?? what kind of Asshat ar you??????
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 10, 2008 2:38 PM
Listen Butthead/Fraud What, whoever you are, What doesn't talk to me that way.
Go find something useful to do and knock this crap off.
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 10, 2008 2:38 PM
Sorry! Had to actually do some work for a little while. But this point that DOW and I are discussing seems to me to be worth more exploration.
Me: "How, DOW, did the readers of this site make the rules of NYC real estate?"
DOW: "They fall for the hype and overpay. Participation."
OK--fair enough to a point but what do you say to somebody like me. I was living in an 800 square foot co-op with a second child on the way. I did a lot of research and discovered that there was a house I could buy where I could triple my living space and make my monthly payments go down. SO paid just over a million dollars for a house that in any rational world wouldn't be "worth" that much. And yet it improved my lifestyle and cut my monthly costs. In your book what should I have done DOW? This is what I am trying to say---you seem to believe that people can put their lives on hold to wait for the market to modulate and it just doesn't work that way (or it didn't for me). Do me the favor of giving me a thoughtful response to this. Thanks.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 4:05 PM
"...what should I have done DOW?"
I recall you saying that you bought 25 to 50 percent below comps. If that's the case and you're not living payment to payment, then you did the right thing. If you paid more, then you should have rented, saved and waited. If that temporarily took you out of Clinton Hill or Brooklyn because of space value, then so it would have been. To triple your living space and make your payments go down, you leveraged. You borrowed money and relied on rental income. If this works out for you, congratulations. If not, it'll probably be because you borrowed too much and/or your tenants were laid off and/or the rental market then belongs to renters (which I predict will happen - too many condos built and not sold, too many former Wall Streeters leaving NYC for jobs elsewhere). Good luck either way. You don't need to be a statistic for my prediction to be on the money. Just answering your question.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 10, 2008 6:05 PM
dow, one thing I wonder about in your calculations... do you think we are in for a massive reflation that will lead to temporary inflation? If so, those 30yr fixed mortgages will be a good deal indeed as everyone's income spikes up but payments remain the same.
Posted by: denton at November 10, 2008 6:44 PM
it will be an interesting dynamic playing out between the massive inflationary pressures put in place once the Obama printing press(that is if anyone wants to buy our debt anymore) is in full swing and the deflationary counterforce which I think will gain some significant force with the unwinding of all of these hedge positions in the commodities markets and the tepid demand..deflation will really blow..
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 7:17 PM
how do you guys read AMEX becoming a bank holding company..cheap capitol at a great expense..
Posted by: derwood at November 10, 2008 7:20 PM
"do you think we are in for a massive reflation that will lead to temporary inflation? "
"t will be an interesting dynamic playing out between the massive inflationary pressures put in place once the Obama printing press(that is if anyone wants to buy our debt anymore) is in full swing and the deflationary counterforce which I think will gain some significant force with the unwinding of all of these hedge positions in the commodities markets and the tepid demand..deflation will really blow.."
I think China is going to say "Fuk YU" on buying any more US Debt. That 586 Billion dollar injection into China is huge! Very soon China will dump US Debt on the market and if Obama tries to print, interest rates are going to be at 20%!
Deflation is the way to go because you can't make anyone loan you money. Easy credit is fucking dead!
RIP Mutant Asset Bubble.....
The What (The real one)
Someday this war is gonna end..
BTW Thanks guys! I really mean that and you know who you are...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 10, 2008 9:26 PM
DOW--It is possible that there will be a massive downturn in employment which would sink the rental market and in this case I would be in a tight (though not dire)spot. I priced my rental a little lower than thought was market value for a Clinton Hill brownstone floor through garden apt so that I would not have any trouble finding a suitable tenant. And sure enough there were numerous enthusiastic applicants.
Given that I am one of my own tenants I am somewhat protected against the "tenant losing their job" factor, though of course my work could dry up too. In that case it wouldn't matter too much where in Brooklyn I was living cause I would be screwed either way, certainly I would have been just as screwed in my two bedroom where my monthly nut (with maintenance) was 3000.
Also you seem to think that uprooting a family out of Brooklyn wouldn't be too hard but I disagree with that. And leaving the city would be the only way to get equal value for the amount of space I have. The rental prices for three bedroom, two bath apts with guest rooms and outdoor space are pretty high right now. But anyway, the larger point I am trying to make here is that every time you go to point out what idiots people are and lump everyone together a group who supposedly worked in concert to intentionally drive real estate prices higher, remember that every household has a story and a set of circumstances that are unique to them.
Posted by: wasder at November 10, 2008 11:43 PM
Look Wasder calm down and stop trying to justify your decision. Believe or not I hammer you but I really understand where you are coming from (NO BS). You just want a home for your family and as a man you have that right. Look they reasonehy I hammer everyone because of my many years in Real Estate. My endeavors on Brownstoner is a little comic relief because when I was in RE 2003-2006 you could not talk to anyone. Everybody was a genius and a Real Estate expert. The "Investor" was coming out of the wood work.
Believe me I was not involved in any fraudulent Real Estate transaction. I did not want to be a party to fraud and I wished I brought a house with no money down (NO BS). I thought this can't go one forever but it did. Plenty of people made money but I was not willing to take the chance: Flipping, Fake Mortgages, Nominal Buyers, Park escrow money, low life Title Processor and being unethical. I know most of the people who read this will say "The What is full of shit" but if you know me personally you would say "Hell Yeah".
This blog gave me a release from all those years of looking at the Mutant Asset Bubble taking shape and no one thought for a second that these events coming up will shape our lives forever but maybe because of the MAB we have a Black President...
The What (Wasder please enjoy your new house and good luck)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 11, 2008 1:12 AM
Wow--interesting What. I have never heard your side of the story as much as this. Certainly never heard your explanation for how and why you came to be here. So thanks for that.
I try not to get defensive about this stuff but its hard as I am sure you know. I don't think I need to justify my decision to anyone but at the same time it bothers me when I hear that somehow any person who decided to buy a house in Brooklyn is complicit in a system that I have come to understand was fraudulent in many ways. Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter and am glad to have some What-perspective.
Posted by: wasder at November 11, 2008 8:14 AM
Wasder I was on the front lines of this Mutant Asset Bubble! Believe it..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return of The What at November 11, 2008 9:03 AM
I'm a little ASSHAT
Short and stouts
Here is my handle
Here is my spout
When I get all steamed up
I just shout
Tip me over and pour me out
ROTMFFLMAOO!!!
The What (The Real One)
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 11, 2008 9:09 AM
^^^ Hey Fucknozzle^^ The bullshit is wearing off!!
I'm logging on using this name...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at November 11, 2008 9:16 AM
Heavens! First Obama gets elected! Then What and wasder have a civilized conversation! These are historic times! Catch me, I may faint!
[ Smiling in my cube farm : ) ]
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 11, 2008 9:35 AM
"I'm logging on using this name..."
Yeah right Fucktard. Nice try. Get outta here and go be an Asshat to someone else.
The What (Don't Believe "what", it ain't The Real What)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 11, 2008 10:10 AM
^^^ Hey Fucknozzle^^ The bullshit is wearing off!!
I'm logging on using this name...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 11, 2008 10:11 AM
Hey Cobblehiller Lookie here!
Group Files Lawsuit to Block Extension of Term Limits
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/nyregion/11termlimits.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin
Elected officials, aspiring politicians, public interest groups and average citizens who voted to establish term limits in New York in the 1990s filed a federal lawsuit on Monday challenging the constitutionality of a law signed by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg last week that extended the limit from a maximum of two terms in office to three.
This Asshat needs to go!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: what at November 11, 2008 10:11 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This Asshat needs to go!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 11, 2008 10:13 AM
G'morning What, I don't think I've ever told you that I actually voted for Bloomie [the one and only time I voted Republican]. I'm not proud, I'm just sayin'...go ahead call me an asshat...[hanging my head in shame]
That said, I am so angry that he's pulled this crap. I really wanted a referendum, so that we could vote on it AGAIN - as if twice before wasn't enough? Good for Bill and Letitia to press on with this - it gives me some faith.
I'm dizzy watching all the crap people are sneaking through - this Federal Tax law thing has got me really pissed off. This $140 BILLION that's been slipped through to banks? WTF. How can they do that?
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 11, 2008 10:39 AM
dont worry cobblehiller, you didnt really vote repub, he's a lib through and through! as to recent op-ed posts practically declaring that the big O' can either walk on water and/or is a magician!! I agree with the What or one of his incarnation(that crap is really not that funny for those who are wasting your time just think for yourself so there can be an interesting discourse) the Chinese are through buying our crappy debt they have enough of their own domestic pumping and debt to create..i dont see the keynesian model working.. but krugman is ready to throw whatever it takes, because big gov't knows best. and i dont care how competent everyone think's O is(with 0 exec experience) i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt,but the house and senate are a whole nother story..barney frank and pelosi..everyone comments about Bush's approval ratings, how bout congress where r they at 11% good luck dealing with pelosi!!
Posted by: derwood at November 11, 2008 11:22 AM
Somehow I have to believe that Obama is going to have a bit more of a chance navigating the Pelosi-led house than Bush did. The Dems now have very functional majorities that should make passing legislation doable. You may not agree with the legislation, but I suspect that congressional paralysis will not be the order of the day in the first year of the Obama administration.
Posted by: wasder at November 11, 2008 11:27 AM
i don't know that scares me even more..absolute power never bodes well in gov't especially when it is in pelosi and reaid's hands, those arent clean hands and they can hog tie obama with all of their pet projects..all im saying is be as critical of this administration as you were of the previous and dont put the blinders on..(think useful idiots)
Posted by: derwood at November 11, 2008 11:32 AM
What's going on here?! Is someone spiking the water?! Everyone is being so nice!
Well, Blommberg may be a lib but he's also a wealthy capitalist, and has done a few things that have burned me.
[What, can you ever forgive me?]
I don't think that Obama is a magician, the second coming or any of that. I just think he's got some good ideas, he's a fantastic communicator, he's a dynamic motivating leader, he's been brilliantly diplomatic in some really tough spots. He's been a constitutional law professor - which can now finally be spoken of in the press - without fear of making him sound like [heavens, not that!] the intellectual that he actually is.
I agree wasder, think Pelosi/Frank/Reid will get in line now that Obama is in. I agree that they went a little crazy there for awhile, but I'm cautiously optimistic about them.
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 11, 2008 11:37 AM
"I'm dizzy watching all the crap people are sneaking through - this Federal Tax law thing has got me really pissed off. This $140 BILLION that's been slipped through to banks? WTF. How can they do that?"
Don't forget where you live, this is America!
Bloomberg Sues Fed to Force Disclosure of Collateral (Update1)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aKr.oY2YKc2g
``The American taxpayer is entitled to know the risks, costs and methodology associated with the unprecedented government bailout of the U.S. financial industry,'' said Matthew Winkler, the editor-in-chief of Bloomberg News, a unit of New York-based Bloomberg LP, in an e-mail.
Remember I said that the Big Boys always win..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at November 11, 2008 11:53 AM
It's infuriating. It's that pants on fire mentality - "We have to do this now!! We have to do this now!! Or the world will come to an end!!"...and now look. They should have taken the time, built in the protections, the transparency, the reporting, but no...
Can you imagine the deals that were/are being made?
When I saw Obama speak at his press conference Friday I thought he looked a little stressed and tired, and I think this is why - he's getting an EARFUL about what these bums are really up to. And he's smart enough to know that he's probably still not getting the whole story.
ARRGHHH!
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 11, 2008 12:27 PM
"Remember I said that the Big Boys always win.."
And Lordy knows how much I loves me my Big Boys. Yippee!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 11, 2008 1:03 PM
"dow, one thing I wonder about in your calculations... do you think we are in for a massive reflation that will lead to temporary inflation?"
Absolutely. Hyperinflation. I think gold will kick ass because 1500 is the REAL all time high (although it seems hyperinflation would move that number higher). I expect other commodities to do well too. Tangentially related, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that GM is too big to fail - they will bounce back (bail out or not) and shares will soar. I think I'm gonna gamble on them.
"If so, those 30yr fixed mortgages will be a good deal indeed as everyone's income spikes up but payments remain the same."
Not a better deal than more money down on a cheaper house. I don't think hyperinflation will take incomes or home prices with it. It'll be food and energy.
"...every time you go to point out what idiots people are and lump everyone together a group who supposedly worked in concert to intentionally drive real estate prices higher, remember that every household has a story and a set of circumstances that are unique to them"
Didn't say their was a conspiracy. Just said that everyone who bought participated in the run-up, consciously or not. You complicate things, wasder. Housing bubble inflates - prices get away from their intrinsic value. Housing bubble deflates - prices fall through their intrinsic value and become undervalued. Happens everytime. You choose when to buy. Ownership is a privledge not a necessity. At bubble peaks, it costs more than renting (cash down, interest, maintenance, etc.). There's other things you can do with the difference than spend it on real estate at that stage of the cycle.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at November 11, 2008 1:04 PM
Where is derwoods punk ass today? oh yeah, with my sister and momma...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return_of_The_What at November 11, 2008 1:28 PM
"Ownership is a privledge not a necessity. At bubble peaks, it costs more than renting (cash down, interest, maintenance, etc.)"
This is true of course. There is no "right" to home ownership. However, it is unclear at best and quite possibly untrue that in my circumstance renting was a better financial option. This is one thing where we just may have to agree to disagree. I don't think I could have gotten the space and month to month value that I have in the rental market. But again, my point is that the situation is far more complicated than you are making it out to be in sheer financial terms. There were many bad actors in this crisis, and to suggest that individual home buyers are somehow complicit in the "criminal" aspect of it is what I object to. Yes, everyone decides when to buy and my choice to buy was preceded by a very thorough and thoughtful decision making process.
I guess I could have sold my co-op, taken the profits and stashed them somewhere else but I am not the type to get too involved in the financial investment process beyond buying things that contribute to my day in day out well being. Perhaps this is short sighted of me but this is the choice I made.
Posted by: wasder at November 11, 2008 1:52 PM
sorry my punk ass was dealing with shit ass crackheaded emboldened tenants! bearing down for the new monarchy!! my tenants think they are taking over title on january 20..i told them it would be my pleasure. they can pay my taxes water heat and insurance whenever they are ready!!
Posted by: derwood at November 12, 2008 12:29 PM
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