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November 23, 2008
Reasonable Rent for a Reliable Tenant
Reasonable Rent for a Reliable Tenant
It's amazing to me, after searching for an apartment for almost two months, how the "get as much as I can rent for" is so pervasive in this time of economic turmoil. Granted, I'm a renter, and not a landlord, and mortgages need to be paid. But people, wouldn't you rather have a responsible, reliable tenant, rather than one you think will provide you with above your mortgage income?
I've lived in one apartment in Carroll Gardens for 17 years, and never once was a day late paying my rent. I'm also a teacher and artist in the community. Doesn't that count for anything these days? Just looking for a safe place to live, and enough room to live and work in...hopefully in the community I serve.
Comments
I sorry you have to deal with this. Greed and delusion have been the two biggest factors driving the Mutant Asset Bubble and it will take years for it to play out.
You and other are casualties of this crap. Good luck and be careful with landlords who are in foreclosure.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: Return of The What at November 23, 2008 1:36 PM
Thank you redwolf! I have posted on here several times with a similar theme. The sad part about this is there is a combination of the folks you describe (get as much as they can) and folks that have purchased a property for a ridiculously unsustainable price... so they are *forced* to charge crazy rent.
So, to both groups... Those who think driving up rent prices is good for you. Sure it is, in the short term. But there's a limit and it has a greater impact in the community than you think. Not to mention a seed of resentment and entitlement you're planting in your tenants. If they're paying you $2500 for a mediocre 1-bed, why should they be understanding about anything? Cut you slack? Nope. Respect your property? Nope, they pay enough that you can respect it for both of you.
And the other group... the suckers that bought the 2-family home for $2 million. Yeah, it was crazy overpriced and charging your tenants 1/2 the mortgage or more... I don't even know what to say. Ill conceived from the get-go.
Unsustainable real estate at all levels and in all aspects.
Posted by: tybur6 at November 23, 2008 2:03 PM
The question is, of course, what's a reasonable rent? It's partially a matter of perspective. I moved from a small 2BR in Manhattan at $3100/month to a larger 2BR in Park Slope for $2600/month. So in a way, that's a deal. On the other hand, this exact same apartment in Philly (where I used to live) would rent for well under two grand even in the nicer areas. Philly's not New York, but it's not exactly a small city either.
What are you looking for and how much would you consider reasonable?
Posted by: cwbuecheler at November 23, 2008 4:31 PM
True, "reasonable" is relative. My budget is $1400/$1500. And that's high for me...and of course, laughable to others. Maybe after 28 years, it's time to move out of New York? But really, I'm not ready to do that yet.
Posted by: redwolf at November 23, 2008 5:10 PM
it is really hard to find a decent apt to rent for a decent price in carroll gardens which is why we ended up buying - I think people just stay in the well priced apts forever and then pass them on to their friends. We rent our one bedroom garden apt which is about 680 sq ft for $1900 which includes electricity and the basement for storage. But we had a garden apt for 8 yrs that was almost twice as big for 1800 for 8 years. I think rental prices will definitely come down, so maybe you should live in some short term rentals for a while until they do?
I think there are some crazy landlords out there too who raise rent every year which I think is so lame.
Posted by: gkw at November 23, 2008 6:00 PM
$1400 - 1500 is doable in Bay Ridge
Posted by: SenatorStreet at November 23, 2008 6:28 PM
thank you. i'm also thinking about Jackson Heights and Sunset Park. was hoping to find something in Red Hook, but things sure have changed quickly there!
Posted by: redwolf at November 23, 2008 6:41 PM
I sympathize, but what is your point? "Market rate" rentals are, um, what the rental market will bear. If you can't afford rents where you want to live, then you either have to move or make more money.
As for "I'm a great tenant and always pay on time" thought, well, everyone is, until one day they aren't and they don't.
On a related note, while this is probably a better time to be renting then to be buying, this tale of woe illustrates that renters face their own special set of challenges and frustrations. If you had bought a place 17 years ago, things might be a bit different.
Posted by: Bolder at November 23, 2008 7:08 PM
I agree with you Bolder.
I bought 2 years ago and my mortgage is the amount of your budgeted 1500 a month. Had you bought 17 years ago, not only would your place be almost paid off, but your monthly payments would probably be 600 or 700 bucks. You could have bought a 2 bedroom 17 years ago for 50k.
Rents are what the market will sustain. If you want all rents to be fair, you might want to consider moving to a communist country.
With that being said, you CAN still afford New York, just not in the most prime areas of Brooklyn. There are still lovely areas a stop or three farther out on the subway which would be more than enough space on the budget you have in mind. You're just going to have to expand your horizons. There's more to life than Carroll Gardens (although it IS really lovely).
Posted by: 11217 at November 23, 2008 8:38 PM
i hate hate hate the argument "well you should have bought X amount years ago." im willing to be this person was not able to buy 17 years ago just like they cant buy today. there are people who will always be locked out of buying no matter for, for various reasons. it doesnt make them bad people. ive already resigned myself to the fact that im going to be an adult loser who has roommates for the rest of his life, and well, im fine with that. *unless that megamillions lotto ticket in my pocket is a winner that i havent checked yet* (if i win the 86 million ill buy 10 renters here their own brownstone!)
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at November 24, 2008 9:06 AM
11217: Your post models an unattractive sometimes stream, sometimes undercurrent, sometimes flood of foolishness that flows through many Brownstoner pages. How come YOU didn't buy 17 years ago? Exactly which $275,000 closet did you buy 2 years ago that now gives you boasting rights to a $1500 mortgage? Or was the purchase price greater, and parent-subsidized rather than state-subsidized? What sense of hubris gives you license to tell others they need to clear out of your neighborhood, move where they belong, or go back to where they came from?
Do you even understand that the people who have lived here the longest are the ones that made Brooklyn what it is, the neighborhoods so "prime" and so attractive to you? That we far preferred our butchers, bakers and stoop-sitting neighbors to the endless rows of restaurants and realtors lining our avenues? That we loved living here during the days when you probably still described Brooklyn as godforsaken and dangerous and when you wouldn't have been caught dead crossing a bridge to visit your friends? Do you understand that the majority of oldtimers do NOT charge market value? That market value has been entirely skewed by the new generation of owners who gleefully indulged the twisted run-up, and who both believe it's their "right" as well as have the NEED to squeeze every dollar out of their rentals to barely cover costs? Yes, there's certainly "more to life than Carroll Gardens," but I suspect for you that's just a throwaway line.
Posted by: vinca at November 24, 2008 9:59 AM
Have you considered Jersey City, around Grove Street? It's very reasonable compared to prime or even non prime Brooklyn, its very simillar to Brownstone Brooklyn from 6 or 7 years ago before the Upper Eastsiders moved in, and the commute to the city is fantastic.
PS: We moved from Carrol Gardens (which we loved) to a more fringe neighborhood in Brooklyn (which we hated) and now have ended up in Jersey City (which we like way more than we thought we would.
We rented a 3 bed/2 bath duplex in a brownstone: about 1400sf, fully renovated, eat in kitchen with stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, formal dining room, huge backyard, basement. The rent is $2400. The 1 bed floor-throughs went for $1400. We looked for a while and these are market rents not some bargains; we had a lot to choose from.
Posted by: kdabrowski at November 24, 2008 10:22 AM
Brava Vinca. Well said.
Posted by: cobblehiller at November 24, 2008 12:30 PM
Yeah!!! Jersey City getting some love. I live in the Grove St PATH area and I love it. People are starting to see that there is a whole lot of opportunity this side of the Hudson.
Posted by: Adam Dahill at November 24, 2008 12:48 PM
I lived near the Grove Street stop in Jersey City for 2 years from 2001 - 2003 and my rent was $1K for a huge 1 BR in a brownstone apt on a gorgeous tree-lined street
my commute was WAY better on the Path train than it currently is on the silly F train
If price is the problem - I would definetely check out Downtown Jersey City in the Brownstone section where there are a few shops and cafes etc
Jackson Hts is also really nice. It's grittier and crowded than CG/PS but the costs for apts are way less and many apts are beautiful - I grew up there
Good luck!
Posted by: gemini10 at November 24, 2008 12:52 PM
You can get a gorgeous one-bedroom floor through in Stuyvesant Heights for $1200. Or a gorgeous three-bedroom floor through in Eastern Bed Stuy for $1550 (see the posting in this forum where someone is looking for tenants). Or you can get a large one bedroom from the 20s or 30s in Jackson Heights for $1200 to $1500. Or a two bedroom there for $1500 and up. (The area around 50th & 60th Aves on the 7 train is about the same price and has some great restaurants.) Bushwick is also very inexpensive though it's hard to find a place on the L train near the Dekalb stop where all the amenities are. Mostly three-room tenements there for $1200 to $1500.
Posted by: mopar at November 24, 2008 3:10 PM
There is a post today from eaststuy about renting a brownstoan apt. they want 1550 and would consider a 50.00 brake. why don't you check it out?
Posted by: karo25 at November 24, 2008 4:24 PM
sorry i meant brownstone apt.
and yes, bay ridge is priced between 1200-1600 for one-two bedroom apts.
I don't know what you think of bensonhurst but you can also find apts. there in a single family houses for 1300-1400 where you have 2 baths 3 beds and a balcony
Posted by: karo25 at November 24, 2008 4:30 PM
There are rent-stabilized buildings in Ditmas Park/Vic Flatbush with exactly what you want. Near Pomme de Terre or Farm on Adderley restaurants. Friend of mine just moved out of a 2-bed for which he paid around $1k/month. Don't know how to get into them, other than trawl the area and take down management company phone numbers. But I can confirm that these deals are still in existence. Good luck to you!
Posted by: tinmouse10 at November 24, 2008 8:53 PM
I am not sure what to make of the argument that landlords should charge less to attract good tenants. I have gotten good, conscientious, reliable tenants at what I believe to be prices at or close to market. If I like the tenants, should I drop the price below that which they already agreed to pay? Should I reject prospective tenants who seem good so that I can lower the rent and attract other tenants who might be better? I have never felt that I had to choose between a responsible reliable tenant and one who can pay what the market will bear.
The more sensible argument would seem to be that I should ignore the market at renewal time and keep increases to a below market minimum or none at all(or reduce rents if the rental market is declining) to retain good tenants. I'm all for that on a case by case basis.
Posted by: slopefarm at November 25, 2008 2:47 PM
No it is not fair to say that market rents are what the demand requires. How can singles and gamilies compete with 4-6 working adults who share the rent? The average cost for each is 50-700 dollars a month. For a working single or family it is 2500.00 dollars. I have no problem with the market but if we only had a mayor that made sure that home owners paid income tax on all the rents they got with worrying about the 400.00 dollar rebate check. And if he checked how many people landlords cram into a single appartment the city would be a better place. Redwolf stay strong the moment of truth is arriving all these so called landlords that have a mortgage to pay will soon be selling at auction prices. Just be patient
Posted by: hannible at December 9, 2008 10:13 AM
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