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November 17, 2008
1375 Dean Street
Morning, I’m a serious lurker and really never had anything to post but I wanted to share something. I know some had inquired a while back wondering whatever became of the Elkin House. Well it is back up for sale. It was listed on Craigslist this weekend and my husband and I went by on Sunday as they held an open house. I’m an HGTV buff and liked the idea of restoring something. We were also interested in the square footage and the asking price of $300k, big drop from the once asking price of $799k. The House was HUGE inside, definitely enough space to spread out.
I have to tell you I was deeply sadden at how the house was destroyed. From what someone that lives on the block said, the house was beautiful. I remember reading in an old post about stuff that was missing from the home. I can surely attest that there are NO mantles, the main floor banister was completely ripped out, windows are broken, etc. Till this day, people are still rummaging through the place as the owner has not cared to lock the place up. There were several radiators lined up at the door.
Despite all of this, we still had a vision of what it could become. We bought along our contractor who gave us a rough estimate of $300k just to make it livable. After house hunting and seeing what people are asking for unmaintained house and what out money would get us, we were fine with because we felt it would be worth it in the long run. We had every intention on putting in an offer but two investors offered cash (below the asking). We are just going to wait and see how it all develops. Since the house is landmarked there will be a lot of restrictions on the type of work they may want to do. Oh well back to the drawing board.
Comments
Lis pendens according to Propertyshark. Most likely a short sale.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 17, 2008 8:50 AM
Yes Dave, it was a short sale. At this point the owner would have taken anything just to get rid of it. From what I understand from the realtor, the owner became ill so the house just sat. Now that he is able to make some decisions again as it is a group of investors, and the property is about be foreclosed, they are moving fast.
I just wonder why the bank would accepts such a low price as the mortgage was for 800K. One investor offers $200K and the other 250K.
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 8:56 AM
BrookLynn816, I sincerely hope you are able to get it, and restore this historic house. It's an individually landmarked house, and was designated before the rest of the area was, I know LPC has its eye on it. Whoever does get it will have to adhere to strict guidelines, so I hope there is no funny business, ala "Oops, it had a fire, we can't restore it, guess we'll have to tear it down".
This house was always on my short list of places I would buy and restore if I won Mega Millions, it has a special place in the community as the oldest standing house in Crown Heights North. Please keep us appraised of your progress, and/or the houses' fate.
It would seem if you put in a higher offer, that would have to be considered over a lower one, albeit in cash. The owner is still going to be paid in full by your bank, so I don't see an upside for him in taking less, but I fully admit I don't understand this part of the business.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 17, 2008 9:36 AM
Thanks Montrose,
I have seen how passionate you've spoke of the house when it previously went on the market. We have actually considered putting in a higher offer to see what would happen. We just assumed Cash would win out. Trust me if I won Mega there are quite a few homes I would love to buy and restore.
We could only tell from the gold etchings around the once grand staircase and around the ceiling and molding how great it must have looked in the past.
As first time home buyers, this house hunting is still a big learning curve and very discouraging as there is so much shady dealings amongst buyer/sellers agents, sellers etc. We have an agent and haven't had much luck and are really regretting signing an exclusive with her. Just glad it expires the beginning of December.
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 9:50 AM
I've never heard of signing an exclusive with a "buyer's agent."
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 17, 2008 10:02 AM
Apparently quite a few agents are doing this now, as they want to be paid even if you find a house on your own because of time they invested in working for/with you. We've worked with this agent before (never signed anything) so we enlisted her again to work with us as she appeared to work really hard the first time. We signed an agreement that we would work with her for 90 days but also that if we found a house through another agent within that time we would still pay her 2%. We were fine with this as we thought that it would work out. Obviously is hasn't as we still have not acquired a property to no fault of ours and 90 days are almost up. Example, we put in an offer on a house with this agent and it didn't work out. Not because we didn't have funding or anything like that but because there were disagreements with the sellers agent. Besides that I have done all the research on finding properties to view and all she did was make the appointment, which I found a waste because agents were more inclined to speak with us directly then deal with another agent. Anyway it is truly a lesson learned. Sorry to vent, just has been a disappointing 3 months. :)
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 10:25 AM
If it's a short sale, a higher offer from a solid buyer will win the day over a low, all-cash deal. In a short sale, the bank makes the call. If it's a foreclosure, however, all cash will be required.
Posted by: mopar at November 17, 2008 10:32 AM
Ah ha! And this was in Brooklyn? I FIGURED a buyer without an agent would be more attractive than one with an agent, since the seller's agent would have to split the commission. This is how it works in Queens, where there is no multiple listing service and no one would dream of splitting a commission. I posted a question about this a while ago, and everyone claimed there was no disadvantage to having a buyer's agent in Brooklyn.
However, a true buyer's agent would be paid by the buyer -- then there shouldn't be a conflict of interest, I would think.
Posted by: mopar at November 17, 2008 10:36 AM
Yes it's brooklyn and we would be willing to pay our agent ourselves if this was the problem.
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 10:41 AM
OP, this house is fantastic, hence my handle of "Susan Elkins". My husband and I fell in love with it and our offer of 400k was turned down by the bank. Funny how things go. We spent ALOT of time there evaluating it. We had 2 contractors in to look at it and they said that it would take 200k to restore the oustside. Remember it's freestanding so more than just the facade needs work, all according to LPC. They estimated a minimum of 500-700k for the interior. I don't mean to scare you off, I really hope you get it (and invite me over after the reno!!), but 300k sounds like a very minimal renovation if you intend to work with the existing detail that is left and not gut the whole thing. The good news is that the inspector said it was structurally sound. One of the contractors said it was originally built much better than the surrounding row houses since it was custom built for the Elkins. Anyway, I will gladly pass on my Brownstoner name to you if you do get, and I wish you the very best.
Posted by: Susan Elkins at November 17, 2008 1:58 PM
Thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated. My husband can't let it go and is actually going back to the realtor to put in an offer. He keeps thinking about what you get for your money in this market compared to fixing up what would be a great property. He would rather spend less money on a home and spend more on restoring instead of spending upwards of 600K and still having to do work.
The contractor we had along basically did a quick walk thru, and gave a rough estimate which I'm sure was just that an estimate. He basically said conservatively $300K. Hard to tell what something would cost unless you start poking around inside. Not sure when last you saw the place but after viewing yesterday I can't even picture what details was in the home. I would have expected to at least see some original built-ins but there was nothing. Really sad but there was nothing left to save. It would have to be restored from a vision of how you would expect that period house to look or photos of similar homes, if that makes sense. He said because of damage on the ceiling and around the wall that some of the beautiful detail could not be saved but the lighting medallions were safe from harm.
Oh will unless I hit the lottery tomorrow or the other deals fall through, I will dream.
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 3:01 PM
Susan, I always wondered if that was where your handle came from. Cool. Good luck in your search as well.
BrookLynn, I hope you are successful. If so, I will turn up at your door with cookies.
BTW, there are other properties on that block for sale. The prices are ridiculous, however, especially for those two semi-detached ones across the street. The one on the right has potential, however. It's supposed to have lots of detail, but hasn't been lived in for years. An old fashioned fixer upper. Prices need to adjust for reality.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 17, 2008 3:44 PM
I noticed that, one is for 1.2 and the other I'm not sure. Please I'm looking at a fixer, no way I have that type of money to buy LOL. Not sure I would pay that if I had the money. I would rather find something for less in a decent/nice area that I can fix up to be grand. I noticed coming down Dean from Bedford, there are quite a bit of houses for sale, some are boarded up. But I just love the houses and exterior look of the homes.
So My husband called the realtor back and was basically told that if we up our offer, which they know will only be $5-10K over the cash offer, we can potentially get the house. Said that the seller wants to see our pre-approval, etc. My hubby told him he will touch base with them tomorrow. My concern which I expressed to my husband is that they probably don't have solid cash deals but looking to recoup as much as they can. I don't think we could hide how excited we were about the house and they know it.
We just need to really get an idea of what renovation cost would be as we don't have unlimited cash.
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 4:39 PM
Susan,
Just curious, did Landmarks say it would be around 200K for restore the outside? Is there a way of finding this info out as they are the only ones that will tell you what work is acceptable.
Thanks in advance
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 4:43 PM
When the house was listed with Cocoran, hubby and I made an appointment to go see it. We got our days crossed and showed up a week earlier. After we realized our snafu, we walked around the neighborhood and fell in love with the architecture in the area. We've been back many times to crown heights walking the streets looking at the beautiful homes.
Needless to say, we never went back to see the house, we came to realize that it was overpriced.
The history of the house is intriguing. It is a shame that there aren't any details left intact or a semblance of it's grandeur.
At this price, I think it should be snapped up and I hope it's by someone who will care and restore the house.
If I remember correctly, the house has 25 rooms....25 rooms that need new everything. I think 300K to renovate is very very conservative. It may get you a livable space with defined rooms, a working kitchen and a couple of bathrooms.
I would think this house needs new mechanicals; plumbing, electrical, heating, structural, new windows, new facade, new roof, new flooring, and ceilings, etc. etc. etc.
I would think that it would take a min. of 500K to make it habitable and double that (if not more) to make it a showpiece.
OP - look at this from all angles. Renovation of this magnitude is not for the faint of heart.
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour. You seem to be very passionate about the house and rightfully so.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at November 17, 2008 4:43 PM
Thanks BG,
I do remember it was you who wondered what ever came of the house. Which is why I initially decided to post and update. :)
Like I said, I'm a huge lurker.
Posted by: BrookLynn816 at November 17, 2008 4:52 PM
The bulldozers were lined up to raze this house for a 6 story apartment building when Landmarks designated it as a stand alone landmark. That may sound unfair to the owner, but he bought it when it was common knowledge and on record that the block was calendered for landmarking within months of his sale. He thought he could get it under the wire, but concerned people on the block and in the area, including the Crown Heights North Association, CB8, and Landmarks itself, moved to protect it.
I love that this house was once a farm house, and from its porch, the Elkins family could see fields and forest, and the encroaching approach of progress, as buildings were going up all around, in the 1860's and later. It appears Mr. Elkins, as a real estate mover and shaker, would use the view from his house as a tool in selling lots in the neighborhood. I can't imagine the oldest house in CHN going to someone who would not appreciate the history and legacy. It's more than just a cheap, lis pendens house, and I love that you and your husband are chomping at the bit to get it.
You might want to look into the programs of the Landmarks Conservancy. They offer loans with very low interest rates for the exteriors of historic district buildings. (BTW, houses in calendered districts, not yet officially landmarked are eligible, too). They are a separate entity from LPC.
Securing the house in terms of windows, roofing, safety issues would come first anyway, over a full blown restoration of original facade and detail. I would think that the LPC would be very eager to have you on board, and would work with you to see the beginnings of a period appropriate job done, working within your budget. Of course, your architect's work and plans submitted will probably have to pass more scrutiny than normal, given the house, but it would be totally worth it.
I think Bayridgegirl is correct in her projections, and if you do a lot yourself, you could shave quite a bit off of the estimate. This is exciting, I'm really rooting for you, and hope you can do this. Please keep us up to date.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 17, 2008 6:47 PM
BrookLynn, It was one of the contractors whom we brought to see the house that quoted 200k for the exterior and 700k for the interior. He was the less expensive of the 2 that we brought in. The other, a very high-end guy said it would be over a mil. And both those quotes were for the "hard" costs. In other words, your architect, permits etc would be additional. The only details left when I saw it were the upper railings and mantles, lower door and ceiling moldings which were gorgeous. We did not want to fix something up over time, so we needed to see what we could afford in one fell swoop.
You can get a great description of the house from the LPC report. As far as LPC help, your household has to make less than about 90k (at the high end) to qualify for a grant. You can also contact the Landmarks Conservancy in NY. They offer low interest loans for exterior work. You can also consider "selling" your facade to an historic agency (like the Landmarks Conservancy) for a tax deduction. There's a term for it that escapes me right now.
Montrose, thanks for the good luck. As it happens we just entered into contract for a brownstone/sandstone in Bed-Stuy on Bainbridge St. We are very happy about it.
I want to come over with Montrose!!
Posted by: Susan Elkins at November 17, 2008 7:09 PM
Susan, Congratulations. Bainbridge is a wonderful street, so I know you got a beauty. I'll come over with cookies for you, too.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 18, 2008 12:18 AM
Deal!
We close late winter and have a good 6 mos of reno, but I hope we're in by fall.
Posted by: Susan Elkins at November 18, 2008 10:03 AM
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