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October 29, 2008
Tenant Wants to Install Own W/D
My long-time tenant has asked me to consider allowing her to buy an electric washer/dryer combo unit, ventless, that she could run off her kitchen sink. Since there is no upside to this situation as a landlord and only peril in my daymares imagining water damage aplenty, my first instinct is a polite "no". Unreasonable? If I did decide to accomodate, any suggestions how much I should tack on to the rent to compensate for the certainty of higher electric and water bills? Here's the unit she wants: http://www.pcrichard.com/catalog/product_popup.jsp?productId=31971&PIPELINE_SESSION_ID=48b259afc0a8777a01784f37d9e87643
Suggestions? Thanks!
Comments
Well, the upside is a happier tenant, if that's anything.
Combo w/d run on 110v and are slow and infuriating even if convenient. Figure on 3kwh per load (75c) and extrapolate costs...2 loads/wk = $6/month. Water usage is noise (ie trivial).
Water damage can only be if the hoses fall off...how reliable is (s)he? Typically they don't leak but are somewhat unreliable (but that's not your issue,) we had one for our tenants and finally gave up after the third $250 repair (Equator, which gulps coins and destroys its pump.)
I'd allow it.
Posted by: cmu at October 29, 2008 8:51 PM
Yep... these units are infuriating. I own one of these ventless numbers. They are terrible. The capacity is great for washing, but if you want to "dry," you can only fill half-way which is about 4 t-shirts and a hanky. Oh, and it take 2 hrs to dry these items - and they're not that dry and doesn't get the wrinkles out.
I don't think it's a big deal for you... as long as it's installed right.
BUT, as a friendly landlord, I would suggest you deny the request so you tenants don't waste their time and money on this.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 29, 2008 11:56 PM
If you do allow it, you can add some clause to the lease about how she's responsible for water damage.
Also, why does she need the dryer? Have the washer and drip dry on a line over the tub.
Posted by: mopar at October 30, 2008 12:15 AM
offer to install a real washer/dryer for an increase in rent.
Posted by: slick at October 30, 2008 4:45 AM
I`m a landlord and I don`t just approve of these machines, I bought and installed them in two apartments prior to renting. If the tenent understands the way to use the machine, I think they are great: very energy efficient, cheap to run, low water usage. In order for the machine to be useful, you have to wash only small amounts of like items, i.e. two pairs of jeans, a bunch of t-shirts, or some underwear and socks, at a time. You put them in before leaving for work in the morning -when you return in the evening, the load is washed and dried. It`s not meant to be something you use if you want clean dry clothes fast. In another apartment I installed regular fast high energy American style machines. They waste energy and water and unless you have a family with kids- they seem overkill, like an SUV or something.
Posted by: sally at October 30, 2008 7:41 AM
...also...when the dryer comes on I think these things rattle and you can hear the noise throughout the house. The people across the hall have one and I can tell every time its on!
Posted by: nybk01 at October 30, 2008 8:36 AM
I honestly don't buy the energy efficiency of these things... I know they have charts and graphs and so on, but it just doesn't seem to ring true.
"Two pairs of jeans" "Some socks and underwear" "A bunch of t-shirts"
Other than the fact that you have to make doing laundry a constant every day activity (comb hair, do laundry, brush teeth, do laundry) which is crazy... how is doing a whole cycle of washing and drying for two pairs of jeans efficient? And the full cycle is about 3 hrs of mechanical activity, while I can do 10-15 lbs of clothes in an "American style machine" in a little over an hour... and no wrinkles!!! (because the dryer actually uses air)
All I'm saying is that I'm very very happy I didn't buy the unit that's in my home. And that you'd be doing your tenants a favor if you told them no.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 30, 2008 9:40 AM
Some exaggerations above.
The capacity of the machine shown (which is quite expensive, at $1200+) above is 70-80% of "full-size" machines.
No, they do not always shake rattle and roll when drying; for one thing, it's the spin cycle at the end of the wash that's hi-speed, and you can place it on a thick carpet or rubber mat and it's fine. Besides, ALL front-loaders are like this, not just combo machines.
You can dry the full load, and yes it takes 2-3 hours but so what? Clothes do wrinkle if left in, but not if you take them out at the end of the cycle.
Efficiency is NOT more than other front-loaders, the reason you buy these is there's no venting needed.
Posted by: cmu at October 30, 2008 11:05 AM
blah. tell her to go to the laundrymat like the rest of us. she moved into a place without a washer and dryer and expects it to be provided later? sounds like a pampered princess to me
-rob
Posted by: PitbullNYC at October 30, 2008 11:17 AM
Thanks for the responses so far. She's been a reliable tenant for several years and we respect her asking. We want her to continue to be happy in our building, which is why we are considering it.
Posted by: mcteague at October 30, 2008 11:28 AM
My laudromat charges $0.65/lb for wash, fold and hangers for shirts and pants (this might even be on the high end for brooklyn). All I do is hand them my clothes and they give me sparkling clean clothes back. Almost no effort.
This would be 2-1/4 TONS (2500 lbs) of washing to make up for the $1500 +tax investment here... this doesn't include the electricity, detergent and water costs.
The MAXIMUM drying capacity for this very fancy ventless machine is 8.8 lbs or 2.4 cu. ft. That's 284 full loads to reach 2-1/4 tons. And 2.4 cu ft. is really tiny, hardly a true "full" load. A regular dryer usually has a capacity of 5 or 6 cu. ft.
Like I said above... I don't use my machine because I find it frustrating at best.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 30, 2008 11:39 AM
A word on the efficiency of these machines:
Most of them have a flywheel in them, so they store energy as they spin. This makes the dry cycle take a long time, but take very little elec. They are extremely efficient, and they are great if your expectations are aligned with what they actually do.
They will dry a full load of clothes if you let it go all day. But your clothes will not be hot and they won't be totally un-humid. These machines do make you realize how much a regular dryer cooks your clothes.
But they'll also last a lot longer, and you will never again run into the problem of finding a nasty, mildewy load of clothes that you washed and forgot to move to the drier.
Posted by: vanburenproud at October 30, 2008 12:01 PM
In the OP, the tenant wants to buy the machines. She's not asking the landlord to buy them. The only real issue is what if they leak.. Does the tenant pay her own electricity? That's what would be customary. It would seem not from the OP. Typically, these units need a 240 volt outlet which will cost some money to install.
I have the Bosch units..they take a bit longer but they are VERY quiet and work well.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 30, 2008 12:16 PM
I would also add that you should check to see if the plumbing can accomodate the waste water that would be going down the drain at the end of the cycle. It can back-up into the sinks of the lower floors if the waste water comes down too fast for your pipes to handle.
Posted by: setancre at October 30, 2008 12:26 PM
There's a good chance that your tenant is suggesting this machine to minimize the effect/impact on you. In other words, your tenant might prefer a full-sized machine, but think there's a greater likelihood of you agreeing to this one. Since you describe her as a long-time, reliable tenant that you'd like to keep happy, maybe there's a few more questions to weigh in your thinking. Do you have a washer and dryer installed in your own unit? How convenient do you find it? Is there an existing vent you can tie into if you installed a full-size stack in your tenant's apartment? Is there room for that in her apartment? Would you be willing to do it if the return on investment made sense to you? Other than worries about floods, what else keeps you from agreeing to this request? Our building has 4 units with a stacked washer and dryer in each, and never a flood in the course of 30 years. You already know that living with tenants means that you will, at least occasionally, actually hear them and/or their machines (radios, TVs, friends, visitors, pets, etc.)
Posted by: vinca at October 30, 2008 12:33 PM
They use very little water... the waste water of these units (and front loaders in general) are not that big of a concern.
DIBS, the $1500 unit the OP linked a picture of is a 115 volt machine.
But seriously, as long as the tenant installs it right and pays their own electricity, it really shouldn't be an issue for the landlord (OP).
BUT, I really hope the tenants know what they're getting into... lower your expectations. These machines are a different "lifestyle" than having your own regular machine. Takes getting used to if you want to even bother.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 30, 2008 12:34 PM
How big is your building? Would it be reasonable to give your tenant access to a basement laundry room? That seems like it would be a lot less headache in the long run. Or ... listen to Vinca.
Posted by: serpentor at October 30, 2008 1:04 PM
I bought and installed an LG brand unit like this in my tenant's apt about a year ago. From my research the LG units seem to be the best quality machines. I got the larger capacity unit given that my tenants have two children - so lots of laundry. I would definitely recommend the bigger unit as they are more efficient overall. So far I have found two downsides to this arrangement. 1. Although the machine is comparatively quiet it does have an audible hum and vibration sound that can be heard in my bedroom which is located immediatly below where the unit is installed. It was enough to keep me awake a night (although my husband did not mind it) and so I had to ask my tenants not to run it between 11pm-2am. The machine has a timer so can be set to go on at 2am and then be done by the following morning. 2. I have had to have a plumber out 3 times in the last year to clean out a clog from my tenant's plumbing system. The dryer vents into the plumbing pipes and lint collects causing the pipes to clog. A plumber suggested that we have a catch installed between the dryer and the drain pipe to eliminate the clogs. The catch would have to be cleaned out regularly. We will probably do this in the near future. Overall, my tenants are happy with the machine - they certainly prefer it to going to the laundromat. They pay their own electricity so I am not sure how much this bill went up. Our water bill has not noticeably gone up. I say do it.
However, I would most certainly recommend that you have a professional plumber install the machine to ensure there are no leaks, and to ensure that your plumbing pipes are large enough to cope with the lint that will result from drying. Our pipes are too small which is why we have had the clogging problem.
Posted by: Turtlejam19 at October 30, 2008 3:34 PM
Oh, one more thing. That little box in the lower lefthand corner on the machine. That is the dryer's installed lint catcher. It has to be cleaned out regularly (every 3 months at least). Given the placement on the machine it is a huge pain. I did it the first time and then told my tenants that they had to do it from then on. I even put in their last rental agreement a clause stating that they are responsible for cleaning out this lint catcher to ensure proper operation of the machine.
Posted by: Turtlejam19 at October 30, 2008 3:38 PM
I snuck one of these in my rent stabilized apt a few years back-I didn't tell my landlord. It was a complete pain in the ass. The "temporary" drain that you hang on the sink would fall off and spew water all over the apartment. The clothes were always wrinkly. I kept the machine maybe a month at most then I resold it. As the above poster mentioned at 65cents a pound, you really can't beat the wash and fold. Who wants to wash/dry a few things at a time every single day? Might be energy efficient but it is a totally inefficient expenditure of personal time. If I was not around when the drain came off I would have destroyed the hardwood floors.
Posted by: bqe1970 at October 30, 2008 10:35 PM
PitbullNYC, your comment appears to lack any sensitivity to others who are not you, I'm sorry to say. Many of us, single mothers, and others who aren't as easily mobile as some, truly would/ do appreciate having a washing machine at home. Some of us also don't live terribly close to laundromats, and appreciate doing laundry ourselves, so we can be sure it's done well. Have you observed some of those laundromat workers who're doing multiple loads from multiple clients all at one time? I'm very pleased that the OP has asked such a considerate question of our group.
Posted by: chnyc at October 31, 2008 2:35 PM
Oh, and slick makes a point as well, about an increase in rent. However, there's actually a law which provides for a small monthly increase (say, about $16., I'd have to check on this to be sure) for extra water usage in a Rent-Stabilized apartment. Again, I'd have to check on this, to be sure of the exact amount, and the Rent-Stabilized part. If you'd like me to do so, just let me know.
Posted by: chnyc at October 31, 2008 2:54 PM
I love my full-size LG combo unit so much that I'm considering giving it a name. They work great. And it takes 110V. (We have a 220 plug so I actually run it off an extension cord. Don't think the full-size unit can run off the sink though.
Posted by: Heather at October 31, 2008 3:09 PM
I am totally surprised by the generally negative response of the homeowners on this site. These machines are well designed for a brownstone lifestyle. We've had one for seven years with two kids and tho it has limitations, IT BEATS THE CRAP OUT OF WALKING TO THE LAUNDROMAT. Additionally it's uses FAR LESS WATER and FAR LESS DETERGENT than top loaders --it's clearly more environmentally friendly. And it takes up less than half the space of full sized washer dryer units. Since most homeowners are paying between $650-$900 per sq foot these days, having a combo washer dryer unit saves at least 4 sq ft or $3,600 of precious floor space. On the other hand we can all drive our SUV's to our McMansions and clean our laundry in large capacity side by side washer dryers.
Posted by: lifeofreilly at October 31, 2008 4:26 PM
we have one in our house but we got a model that vents, yes they do make these that vent as well. the key is the spin at the end which should be a high rpm (and should also be switchable to lower rpms). the high spin speed does a very effective job of wringing most of the water out of clothes and decresing the load on drying. i also find myself air drying certain of our more delicate clothes. one thing to note, spin speeds over 1200 rpm will make lots noise as the machine often shakes.
Posted by: werner at November 2, 2008 10:50 PM
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