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October 8, 2008
rec's for oil to gas conversion (plumber?)
I'd like to convert our three unit building from oil to gas heat. I posted about this last week and the only reply I got was from "Master Plvmber;" it was a thoughtful reply, but I called his company to get someone out for an estimate, and they said it would cost $400 just for the estimate!! And if I hire them, they'll credit me $200 of that. Seems insane... Is that standard??? I can't imagine...
For those of you who have done the conversion, who did you use? I'd appreciate any rec's. I frankly have no idea where to even start or who to call...
Thanks.
Comments
Try Keyspan? They may be able to help you out.
Posted by: couldashouldawoulda at October 8, 2008 8:39 PM
Are you the person who called asking about redesigning the heating system to employ individual hot water boilers for each tenant in place of the single boiler (steam?) you've got now?
That's a lot more than an estimate, tanner.
That's at least a one-hour visit to your home, putting pen to paper to calculate the heat requirements for all the rooms, figuring radiator sizes, boiler sizes, piping routes and materials, matching code-compliant venting options to available boilers, preparing a comprehensive evaluation on paper, getting it to you for review and then fielding the questions you will inevitably have via telephone and email, presenting a final system to you that I can guarantee will be effective and work efficiently....and so much more.
An estimate like that takes many hours of mine and my office's time, so yes, we do bill for that type of work.
If you contract us to install the design we propose, in whole or in part, we give you back half the money you paid or apply it to your purchase.
We do not charge for estimates for boiler replacements that do not involve such major alterations to the system itself.
We're professionals and we feel that's fair.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at October 8, 2008 9:42 PM
You can contact John Sallustio on Court st. You can say that Bruce from Kane St. recommended him.
Posted by: brucef at October 9, 2008 12:54 AM
Master Plvmber, yes that was me. But the woman on the phone asked if I wanted three separate boilers and I said no. I asked if it is possible to have three separate meters with one boiler (because I obviously don't know anything about this yet and am trying to figure it out), and she said she'd ask. When she came back to the phone she said it would be $400 to have someone check things out. I asked, what if I just want to replace the boiler; I told her I needed someone to take a look at it and give me some recommemdations and let me know what my options are. $400 to do that, she said. "It's called an *evaluation*."
Posted by: tanner at October 9, 2008 10:01 AM
I can highly recommend Master Plvmber. His firm did an oil to gas conversion to me last year. Very neat job and the measurement of the existing radiators resulted in a smaller boiler than was recommended by another plumber and thus lower gas bills.
Posted by: Nilso at October 9, 2008 10:46 AM
$400 for an estimate? ...maybe if it'll go toward the eventual conversion sure, but just to come by and "evaluate" crazy.
Unfortunately plumbers and electricians usually have folks by the short and curlys....and MP sounds like he's a really good plumber but I'd shop around.
Posted by: moreteasir at October 9, 2008 11:03 AM
I have to agree that the policy doesn't seem "fair" to me either, Master Plvmer. If someone has a major renovation job to do, they are going to want to interview several "professionals" to get different proposals and different bids. Do you really think a responsible customer should have to pay each several hundred dollars just to get a bid on a big job?
I am also a professional and work in a service industry. I do spec work on proposals all the time. It does cost time and therefore money and I don't win every job. That's part of the cost of doing business.
Posted by: ownhs at October 9, 2008 2:41 PM
It's a free market and companies can do what they want and clients are free to take it or leave it.
Being in a not dissimilar line of work but dealing with commercial clients who generally know what they want makes it a lot easier for me. But with residential clients who often don't know exactly what they need and are looking to pick the brains of a dozen different contractors until they figure it out, it makes perfect sense. Unfortunately for the client who find such policies 'crazy' and 'unfair' and goes elsewhere they may or may not be writing off the best contractor(s) for the job. Consider the $400 as a heating consulting fee. Only my opinion.
Posted by: denton at October 9, 2008 2:59 PM
Ownhs, you’re comparing very different tasks.
Before anyone gets any ridiculous ideas, let me make a second attempt to clarify my position.
First:
MY PARTNER AND I DO FREE ESTIMATES FOR VARIOUS JOBS ALL DAY LONG.
Second:
Gateway Plumbing and Heating has built an outstanding reputation for our ability to diagnose and remedy problems that plague steam and hot water heating systems. We’re not the band-aid guys. We’re the company that comes up with lasting, sensible solutions.
It’s been my thing since my teenage years. Now at 39, I’m recognized for it and my phone rings often.
I used to spend a great deal of time traveling to people’s homes to tell them what was wrong with their heating systems and telling them how I would fix it and how much it would cost.
Then they would take all that I just told them and relay it to their old plumber, who failed to help them previously and he would do the job for peanuts, since I did the thinking for him.
That’s a game I simply can’t afford to play anymore.
So as part of our services, Gateway Plumbing and Heating now offers a complete Heating System Evaluation.
Here’s how it works:
One of the owners of the company will come to your home and conduct a thorough room-by-room inspection of your heating system, listing your concerns and documenting your equipment.
He will find the source of any problems, including banging or other noises in the piping or radiators and give detailed instructions on how it is best addressed.
He will determine the proper boiler size for your home and compare it to what is currently there.
Very often, by just “putting back what’s there now”, boilers are replaced throughout the years with grossly-oversized units which consistently waste fuel, cost too much money to run, and unnecessarily add to your building’s carbon footprint.
Replacing a boiler without having all the building’s information will likely lead to an inadequate installation resulting in a 20-30 year commitment to inefficiency and a problematic system.
Upon receipt of your payment, the evaluation will be emailed to you as a Word or pdf. Document. You should use the information given to make an informed decision about how best to make repairs or other alterations to your heating system at their estimated costs. It should also help you choose a contractor for the specified tasks.
The cost of the Evaluation is $400, payable by check, credit card or cash. It takes about an hour in a typical townhouse building and access is needed to as many apartments and visible portions of the system as possible.
If Gateway Plumbing and Heating is contracted to do any of the work outlined in the Evaluation, a credit of $200 (half the fee) is given back to the client.
There is no sales pitch in this service. You’ve already paid us for our time and at that point no one owes anybody anything.
I’ve saved a lot of people a lot of money and heartache with this service and for that, I’ve put a couple of dollars in my own pocket.
No one’s going to tell me that’s not a good thing.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at October 9, 2008 4:35 PM
Here's a rec instead of more arguing..........
We used Victory Bros. Very professional and took only 2 days to install new furnace and convert our forced air system from oil to gas.
Oh yeah, they didn't charge us an estimate fee either.
Posted by: EastStuy at October 9, 2008 5:03 PM
I believe in keeping it simple:
If you call Keyspan - National Grid, they will guide you thru the process of converting from oil to gas,
they are the gas company, after all... (718)643-4050
eric. handymaneric.com
Posted by: HandymanEric at October 9, 2008 5:10 PM
Just a comment from someone who's never used Gateway Plumbing, who's quite loyal to their own plumber, and who doesn't know OP or have a stake in the outcome of the decision. Tanner: nobody but you and Gateway's receptionist know for sure what information you conveyed, and what question the receptionist perceived. One thing is certain, and that is how often Master Plvmber provides thoughtful and free advice in response to numerous Brownstoner queries, including your own. I can certainly appreciate that $400 is a big chunk of change to invest before you're sure what your job entails and who you'll hire to do the work. But why not just say that and ask others for recommendations and input? Why call a company, get an answer you don't like, and then move on to calling Master Plvmber's post thoughtful but Gateway's charges insane? Will that help you figure out the dimensions of your heating system or who else to hire? Will that make it easier for you and Gateway to work together if it turns out he's the best guy to do your rebuild? Will that encourage or discourage Master Plvmber from continuing to post thoughtful, free advice--the kind of insight gained only through years of hands-on experience--to people who are not sure where or how to start and are grateful for insight into both? I'd say that Master Plvmber's explanation of his charges makes at least as much sense as your hesitation of paying them. More to the point, MP is a valuable resource who deserves a round of applause for his knowledgeable and steady input, and who you're free to hire or not. Why disparage a company you've never used?
Posted by: vinca at October 9, 2008 11:35 PM
uh, vinca, disparage a company? did you even read the OP?
"I can certainly appreciate that $400 is a big chunk of change to invest before you're sure what your job entails and who you'll hire to do the work. But why not just say that and ask others for recommendations and input?"
that's exactly what i did...
anyway, thanks for the input everyone else, including you, MP, and others with good rec's.
Posted by: tanner at October 10, 2008 8:44 AM
OP wrote: "...I called his company to get someone out for an estimate, and they said it would cost $400 just for the estimate!! And if I hire them, they'll credit me $200 of that. Seems insane... Is that standard??? I can't imagine..."
Sorry, Tanner, I didn't realize this qualified as a compliment in your books.
Posted by: vinca at October 10, 2008 11:22 AM
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Posted by: rahul8888 at October 13, 2008 3:56 PM
Any plumbing company would come and do an estimate for free. Go with someone else.
Posted by: brownie77 at October 31, 2008 2:55 PM
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