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October 1, 2008
Real estate lawyer (cont)
Okay. Taking a step back a second from my more frantic post on Monday. I was really just upset at the atty for losing us the closing on Friday and all the extra work it will now take for our (still unknown) closing date next week (hopefully).
Today my wife called the bank attorney to follow up on the doc that my atty had forwarded and realized that he had not even seen it. We almost lost yet another 1-2 days because my attorney was "at a closing" and too busy to follow through on the one simple task we have needed for a week.
We are anxious to get our contractors in, but didn't do the "silly" thing that cmu mentioned and actually schedule anyone. Our only real losses will be weekend time that we could be preparing the house for contractors and possibly $2000 if we lose a month getting the attached rental unit filled.
That being said -- why do we put up with these people and what is the recourse against these terrible attorneys? I have email evidence of two events where he did not act in our interests to get this done and forced the closing date back further than necessary. We have caught him lying twice when we have had the chance to verify his claims (mostly just stalling -- blaming delays on other people when they're completely free/waiting) and question many of his "out at a closing" or "they had two closings today" as reasons to delay close to a week further still. I realize RE attys have to be at closings, but come on -- he has a blackberry, something that we actually paid up for because of the illusion he can multi-task and stay in touch.
Somewhere in this, I realize that these people are in a service driven industry. I have asked multiple times what exactly I am paying him for, but am bound to the fixed fee that we agreed on. Is my only recourse to post a bad review on the internet and maybe complain to a few agencies?
Comments
If you're willing to spend a little more money, you can have him jumped and beaten. I'm not saying you should do that...
You could also pay him really really slowly. What are the terms of you contract with him? Give him a check, let it bounce. Send him a new check but for only $500. Force him to take up his time and the time of his staff chasing after his money. The worst thing that can happen is small claims court and some court fees... but he wouldn't do that... so you could just pay $100 or so whenever he pushes it. :-)
Alrighty... you could probably sue him too depending on how badly he performed. If he causes you to lose rent or other significant things, then you probably have a case. But you need to prove that you took reasonable effort to mitigate the damages -- i.e., accept a partial month renter, etc.
If you decide to hire someone to kick his ass have them put sugar in his gas tank too.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 1, 2008 8:54 PM
last time i checked alot of lawyers are greedy dirtbags who overcharge their clients
think of how much work they will have the next 5-10 years cleaning up after the whole credit debacle
scumbags
Posted by: Springs at October 1, 2008 11:44 PM
This is how real estate lawyers work. Seriously. I understand your frustration (btdt) but they are mostly all like this (which means that a good portion of the delays are the fault of some other attorney down the chain). I have heard countless stories of RE attys messing up closing dates and people losing rate locks or sublets or whatever. Our atty caused us some grief too in this regard, but in the end we closed and life goes on. I don't think it rises to the level of malpractice, however. Unless he causes the deal to go south, in which case you might have a claim. Focus on the big picture, don't sweat the small stuff. If it makes you feel better to give him a bad review somewhere, go for it.
Posted by: WTbound at October 2, 2008 8:18 AM
Move to Califonia (joke).
Seriously, when I moved here and had to endure 2 re transactions under the medieval conditions prevailing here (and I was under a 1031 deadline, a lot more serious than scheduling renovations,) it provided me with a lot of dinner-table conversation, two blog entries on OTBKB and some ridicule from commenters here who'd say "oh there goes that guy talking about how easy it is in CA again."
In a perverse way, I'm glad I wasn't terminally naive being from out-of-state, apparently New Yorkers are shocked by this as well.
But I do, as they say in CA, feel your pain.
Posted by: cmu at October 2, 2008 8:53 AM
Obviously its extremely frustrating now but once the closing is behind you, you're anger will fade. It seems way too many RE lawyers are lazy shits. Don't let his idiocy eat up anymore of your time and money - its not worth it.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at October 2, 2008 9:15 AM
I wouldn't recommend bouncing a check, that's a criminal offense and your attorney will likely file a criminal complaint. My experience in other jurisdictions is that the attorneys get their money at closing, and you don't get the keys or clear title until everyone gets paid.
If you feel aggrieved about this when its all over, file a complaint with the Appellate division, the committee that handles Kings, Queens and Richmond counties is:
Grievance Committee for the Second and Eleventh Judicial Districts
Renaissance Plaza
335 Adams Street, Suite 2400
Brooklyn, NY 11201-3745
(718) 923-6300
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/ad2/attorneymatters_ComplaintAboutaLawyer.shtml
The Real Estate bar is like a club, they all know each other and everything does eventually get done, but it's not at all efficient. The NY Assembly and Senate are chock full of lawyers who don't want to simplify anything because it would be bad for business. I recommend that everyone stop voting in lawyers and start voting in some union leaders, teachers, accountants, nurses, anyone except lawyers.
Posted by: bohuma at October 2, 2008 10:27 AM
My wife and I were first time home buyers also and we closed last month..My atty was great and he charges $1100. If you want his info let me know...I cant believe you had to call the bank atty...you should not have to do that. And how could the atty let you miss your closing date? I would have fired that guy last week. Let me know if you want my attys info, he will help you out...hes a real nice guy, the perfect atty for a first time home buyer.
Posted by: nybk01 at October 2, 2008 10:53 AM
bohuma is right... bouncing a check is illegal AND traceable. Just stick with hiring a hit man to rough him up and sugar in his gas tank.
Apologies for the check suggestion - I broke the basic rule: Keep it Simple Stupid! Untraceable violence and vandalism is the way to go. Much more straightforward.
Posted by: tybur6 at October 2, 2008 4:00 PM
I am sure others will tell me if this is illegal, but why not post the names of these lawyers who cause clients to lose rate locks and constuction dates?
Posted by: CrankyYoungMan at October 2, 2008 4:01 PM
As one of those lawyer people who handles real estate closings and the like, I would suggest you change lawyers if possible. We're not all so bad - far from it. Many of these attorneys depend on high volume and have paralegals do the work at a much cheaper rate -otherwise, closings are a money loser for them. With a higher volume and non-professionals doing much of the work, mistakes and delays occur frequently. Ask around and get a referral from a friend or someone you trust. However, please note that if someone promises to handle a real estate transaction (or anything else for that matter) for a set fee or price, be very wary. If problems arise (and they often do), once the billings hit that amount, it becomes a losing proposition for the attorney. On the flip side, if billings never reach the set fee, then you are essentially paying for work that will never be done. The best solution, I think, is to have your attorney keep you informed of the costs as you go along, this way there are no surprises - and if its costing more than anticipated, you can discuss ways to save money going forward.
Posted by: jnjnjn2 at October 2, 2008 5:20 PM
I agree with jnjnjn2. You don't (I might have missed it) discuss how you found your attorney or how you made the deal for the fee. I've been through several transactions, almost all of them with one extremely busy attorney, and have never had any problem stemming from my attorney. If anything, he winds up following up on things and doing things that the other attorney(s) in the deal - representing the prospective buyer or seller, or the bank's attorney - have the responsibility for. It is important to find professionals you can trust, and verify ahead of time how you know you can, by considering who made the recommendation and by doing your own due diligence. This happens with contractors too, and you hear about it all the time from people who get stuck. Unfortunately, it's all part of the learning process, where you learn how to recognize the signs of mediocre work, and how to guess that someone is up to the job. But no group of professionals are all alike, good or bad, and for some here to suggest that all real estate attorneys are of a kind is silly. Also, failing to pay your legal fees will result in you not getting your closing statement, and would be just plain dumb. Then your attorney will be on some board moaning about how all clients are evil.....
Posted by: raphael9 at October 2, 2008 5:46 PM
I'm sorry to hear that so many of you had bad experiences with your RE Lawyers. Mine was fantastic, worked really hard for us and was honest. He might be more expensive than others but he came recommended so I didn't shop around.
If you want to change lawyers or will need someone for the next time around try Carlo Zacchia, Zacchia Law Group, 441 Lexington Avenue, NY NY 646-472-1893
Posted by: premadas at November 13, 2008 12:41 PM
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