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September 17, 2008
NOT A THREE BEDROOM
http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1372456
OK, this is a perfect example of what I have been talking about. By no stretch of the imagination is this a 3 bedroom.
As an aside, I have been to an open house (with the previous broker) and can tell you that it is very charitable to claim this is a 1400 sf unit.
Fail.
Comments
Agreed. Two bedrooms and a study. Looks like a nice place but given where we are right now economically I can't see that going near ask.
Posted by: wasder at September 17, 2008 10:04 AM
Think of the positives. In the morning you can quickly pop out of your bedroom and into the kitchen for a quick cup of coffee.
Posted by: Boerum Hill at September 17, 2008 10:28 AM
hey if it's got a window (and even a closet!), it can be a bedroom. i've seen far far worse masquerading as a bedroom.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at September 17, 2008 10:32 AM
I printed the floorplan, checked several dimensions to make sure it was drawn to a consistent scale, and scaled the overall area: 1,310 SF. Not quite the 1,400 SF claimed, but I've seen waaaaay worse area exaggerations.
Posted by: johnife at September 17, 2008 10:37 AM
Think of the negatives...your clothes will smell like last nights dinner.
I like my bedrooms as far away from the kitchen as possible.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 17, 2008 10:52 AM
ok, i'm missing it -- what's so bad about the third bedroom? it has a window, a closet, and is over 100sf. yes, there's a door to the kitchen, which is strange, but this otherwise seems like a credible bedroom #3.
Posted by: z at September 17, 2008 10:55 AM
If it doesn't jump out at you from the floor plan, go to an open house and it will be very obvious. The third room is clearly a study/living room/whatever. It is sandwiched between the entryway and the kitchen. Again, some people might decide to sleep there and call it a bedroom, but frankly ketchup is not a vegetable.
Posted by: lechacal at September 17, 2008 11:19 AM
And did I mention that there is no laundry in the unit? This place is worth about $750,000.
Posted by: lechacal at September 17, 2008 11:25 AM
with the window it's a legal bedroom, no?
Posted by: werner at September 17, 2008 11:27 AM
There's got to be a distinction between legal and practical.
Yes, legally it is a 3 bedroom. That said, put an actual bed, dresser nightstand and the like in it and see if you can then walk into the room.
It would make a good nursery, study, office, or extra storage/walk-in pantry and in a pinch, yes, I suppose a bedroom.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 17, 2008 11:35 AM
Lechecal speaking as a native New Yorker, I can tell you that my sister and I both slept together in a similar size bedroom from age 0 - age 6 in my parent's house. Twin bed on one side of the room, crib on the other. It may not be a luxurious bedroom, but it is indeed a bedroom and of a size that many NYers in various types of housing (tenament apts, houses, etc) have lived in for 150+ years. Because it is not large enough for your taste does not negate it's usefullness as a small bedroom, nor does it make the apt a 2-bedroom. Whether that pricetag for the apt is warranted is of course a different issue.
Posted by: setancre at September 17, 2008 11:53 AM
It looks like a Maid's room to me, off the kitchen and all (not that I ever had a maid, mind you!). Maybe a den, with close proximity to the kitchen for snacks. This reminds me of the 2-bedroom postings on Craig's List -- with no living room! I guess if any room can be a bedroom, I live in a 6-bedroom apartment (just be careful not to hit your head on the stove while sleeping in the "kitchen" aka, 6th bedroom).
Posted by: I_haz_TWO_toilets at September 17, 2008 11:54 AM
setancre: I'll spare you the salt-of-the-Earth speech about my own childhood. There are plenty of people whose parents had to compromise, and that's just fine. I'm sure the average resident of a shantytown Port-au-Prince would have some pretty strongly worded comments to add to this debate. But we're talking about a seller who is asking almost $1.2 million, and at that price every bedroom had bloody well better be a real bedroom and not whatever space with walls you or I or anyone else had to sleep in as children.
Posted by: lechacal at September 17, 2008 12:40 PM
I'm always looking to call out brokers for outrageous lies...but...that's a bedroom - a small one, but a bedroom nonetheless. Not everyone needs a king size bed in Brooklyn.
Posted by: arches at September 17, 2008 1:44 PM
arches, if you genuinely believe that you need to go to an open house at this place and report back. Consider someone actually sleeping in this room while normal human interaction goes on in the living room and the kitchen. I swear on all that is or may some day be holy, this is not a bedroom.
Posted by: lechacal at September 17, 2008 1:47 PM
Well, I was speaking dimensionally (and also assuming that the stated dimensions weren't outright lies - which might be a leap of faith).
I could see that having a swinging door to the kitchen might lead to a lot of "tea-kettle alarm clock" moments - but since the room has two entrances, the kitchen/bed door could be sealed off. The 3rd bedroom is buffered from the living room by the entrance hallway (plus, plenty of bedrooms share a wall with a living room).
Posted by: arches at September 17, 2008 2:08 PM
What's unfortunate about the layout is that you could easily take 2' from the foyer and get a 12x11 bedroom. But 8-1/2x12 is fine as a kid's bedroom.
Posted by: cmu at September 17, 2008 2:11 PM
I live in a 1-bedroom apt and if there was "normal human interaction" going on in my kitchen and living room, I wouldn't be able to get any sleep either. They are right next door to each other. However, my apt is still a 1-bedroom and not a studio.
I get what you're saying, it's weirdly located, not great for a family, etc., but at the end of the day the room still qualifies as a bedroom, and the sellers shouldn't be required to market it differently, unless they think they'll get more buyers listing it as a 2-bd + den/bonus room. There are very few generously sized 3rd bedrooms in 3-bd apts (or 2nd bedrooms in 2-bed apts for that matter). If you have a problem with the price I understand, but the listing detail is correct, they have a floorplan and pics of the room, so it's not like they're trying to hide the layout or miniscule size of it.
Posted by: setancre at September 17, 2008 2:13 PM
Duly noted. I can't force them to list as a 2-bedroom, even if I can't see any civilized way to use that room as a bedroom (and I note that pic #6 is the room we are talking about - clearly the seller doesn't use it as a bedroom either). You are right at the end of the day my gripe is really with price. They can call this a 3-bedroom all they want, and I can't force them to do otherwise. But they should price it as a 2-bedroom with a living room and a small separate dining room, which is what I think it really is. This place is worth $750,000 (and, as of the past few days, falling).
Posted by: lechacal at September 17, 2008 2:26 PM
Anyone who says that third bedroom is not a bedroom probably used to living in the suburbs or the country. this is city living my friend, and in the city - at least New York City - that DEFINITELY constitutes a 3rd bedroom.
Posted by: gkw at September 17, 2008 3:45 PM
By law if it has a reasonably sized window, that being large enough to be exited onto a firetruck ladder which is also plenty for light/ventilation, and is at least 70SF it can be considered a bedroom.
Posted by: FenFen at September 17, 2008 3:56 PM
Sorry, hadn't looked at the plan prior to my earlier comment. Legally that room can be labeled as a bedroom because it meets the criteria. In practical use, and assuming the plan wasn't monkeyed with in great manner, it was probably the original intent of the architect for that space to be used as a dining room.
Posted by: FenFen at September 17, 2008 4:02 PM
Ketchup is not a vegetable. Q.E.D.
Posted by: lechacal at September 17, 2008 4:36 PM
i'll just have to take your word for it that the reality does not match the floorplan -- the floorplan looks like a 3br. but i agree it is overpriced no matter how many bedrooms one considers it to have.
Posted by: z at September 17, 2008 4:56 PM
Funny thing is, I have dealt with this broker before and I think he is a nice and reasonable guy. He had a really nice brick house listing on Union between 4th and 5th in late 2006 at what was frankly a pretty reasonable price. I also note that he took over this listing from another broker, and I think it was already at this price. I think the seller is clearly being the idiot here and not the broker.
Posted by: lechacal at September 17, 2008 5:24 PM
I'm not defending the price especially without laundry (in my view no family-sized apartment without laundry should be priced like this no matter what the neighborhood) but it's totally a bedroom. It has a window and a closet so it's a bedroom officially and it's fine for NYC. One must leave suburban standards behind while apartment shopping in NYC.
Besides, many if not most buyers looking for 3BR places need the 3rd bedroom to be a home office/guestroom. This room serves that need perfectly -- the two doors, one leading into the kitchen is bad for a true bedroom but great for an office. We ourselves bought a 3BR place because one bedroom needed to be an office/guestroom, not a bedroom. Otherwise we would have stayed in our 2BR. Everyone we know in either apartments or houses have one bedroom used as a home office.
Posted by: traditionalmod at September 18, 2008 11:50 AM
My daughter grew up in a room that size and amazingly enough, she still got into a good college and seems like she'll become a fully-functioning member of society.
Posted by: Park Sloper at September 18, 2008 1:30 PM
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