Forum
« Solar Panels on a Brownstone? ISO Stager »
July 28, 2008
work being done next door
The building next to mine is being fully renovated - I think it's been fully gutted. The've been working on it for the past 6 months and as you can imagine it's been very unpleasant: noise, dust, construction debris.
I got so mad that I decided to check whether or not they have permits for the work. In the DoB site I found they have a permit to renovate the basement apartment! No mention of the other 3 floors.
Is it common for people to file for one thing and then do a lot more? This doesn't sound right to me. What do you think?
Thanks
Comments
I think people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I also think neighbors should have a conversation with each other like grownups to discuss their problems before taking it up with the city.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at July 28, 2008 2:10 PM
Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy has it right. be a real neighbor.
Posted by: werner at July 28, 2008 2:25 PM
I posted this because I want to know if it's common for people to file for a thing and do a different one. I think it's a fair question and I still hope someone will coment to that.
FYI, nobody lives in the house now, it was sold last year. The workers are secretive and don't really respond to questions or pass on our details to the owner (either that or the owner has decided not to call back). Whoever is doing the work will be my neighbour so I have no interest in tainting the relationship before it actually starts.
The way I see it, rules and laws are not just something to give us (individuals) a headache but to protect the buildings and us (home owners, and residents, as a group). For that reason, I would certainly report them if I knew they were doing things not up to code that have a potential effect into my building. I certainly don't know if that is the case, and hope to never have to take that route.
Posted by: Ray at July 28, 2008 2:38 PM
Whoa, there, BFAG and W, a bit touchy, dontcha think? Ray just asked a question. I see no sign that Ray has thrown any stones -- no 311 calls, no warning letters from a lawyer. Nothing in Ray's post suggests he was acting like anything other than a grown-up. He just looked up the public records for the project and asked a question here about what is common. I agree that talking to the owner is a good next step, but why the hostility?
Posted by: slopefarm at July 28, 2008 2:40 PM
Let's just say it's not uncommon. This way, they have a DOB permit to hang in the window if there are any questions by curious neighbors and drive-by inspectors about the obvious work in progress. So long as you don't read the fine print, that is.
Posted by: Steve at July 28, 2008 2:54 PM
Inflection doesn't travel well over the internets, slopefarm. There is no hostility from me, but I imagine if I was Ray's neighbor and prior to meeting me he performed a background check on me it probably wouldn't give that warm fuzzy welcome to the neighborhood feeling.
As for the secretive contractors, I would consider the obvious. The don't work for you and so can't be bothered to answer to you or relay messages.
And the whole post is loaded anyway. Of course people do work with out permits. Of course people file for the bare minimum. People double park too. This does not mean that the work is not to code or that they should be turned in to DOB unless there is an imminent threat to life or property.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at July 28, 2008 3:01 PM
We went through this a couple of years ago when the building next door was a gut reno. Don't know if they had all the proper permits or not but I do know they were pigs. They knocked down the old fence in the back yard and were putting up a new one, intending to leave the old one in our backyard on the ground. Workment used to come into my landlord's yard and piss on her back wall (once while 4 of us were sitting in the kitchen eating lunch). And they had a portajohn in the front for workmen (which the never cleaned so it stank horribly in the summer).
They blocked the front gate when they were bring in sheetrock so that no one could get in or out of the front yard for 4 hours. They threw all their trash, including bags and crap from their lunch in our yard. They never tried to contain the dust or dirt so it was constantly coming into our house. When they powerwashed the exterior (without notice)they never ever put up tarps and I found my living room floor host to a huge filthy puddle by the window.
Needless to say after calling the contractor several times and complaining several times I finally called him up one last time and told him I would call every city agency and newspaper I could and report him and his men. I also told him I know quite a few cops and firefighters (which is true) and I would have no problem calling them up to come by and see if his work was up to code or if it was being done safely. I doubt it was- none of their workmen had facemasks when they were gutting. Hope they haven't gotten cancer from all the lead paint dust. No hardhats, nothing.
Needless to say he got his act together really fast after that- leading me to think he had no real permits or was not doing work to code. The building by the way was HPD for section 8 tenants. The contractor wasn't Union.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 28, 2008 3:04 PM
Poster Ray has endured 6 months of renovation next door wihtout complaint and gets lambasted for wanting to know if the permit for the workj being done is valid?
Posted by: Boerum Hill at July 28, 2008 4:18 PM
Yes, it happens. Its your right to call the DOB whenever you like but keep in mind that by doing so, you are going to create an environment of hostility with your neighbor. That is going to last a lot longer than the noise/debris you are experiencing now.
What is your end game? The work may stop for a while but noise and construction debris will continue and you will have gained absolutely nothing except the distain of your neighbors. You never know when a friendly neighbor can come in handy.
If something unreasonable is happening, talk to your neighbors directly - they may not even realize that anything is happening to bother you. You may be able to accomplish an improvement without creating the bad blood.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at July 28, 2008 4:55 PM
Agree, Boerum Hill. I'm not sure what's behind BFAG's rant, but it isn't really about Ray.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 28, 2008 5:05 PM
Agreed re: BFAG's rant. Not sure why OP is being treated as if he's the heel. I'd think it's common courtesy for the owner to do the first reaching out - like "Howdy neighbor, I'm about to inconvenience you for 6+ months, so forgive me in advance and pardon our dust."
Posted by: NorthHeights at July 28, 2008 5:29 PM
I apologize if I offended. I assure you it was unintentional. However, I stand by my opinion and agree with Mrs. Limestone.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at July 28, 2008 5:30 PM
I guess I'm too naive for this forum.
For all you hostile people out: I wonder what you would have said if I had came to this forum saying
1. I am going to get a permit to renovate my basement.
2. With that permit on my window, I am going to gut the whole building (5 floors).
3. For more than 6 months (and counting) I will not bother to intruduce myself to my neighbors, will not bother to respond to their unthreatening approach.
Would you have cheered me and writen notes of hostility towards my neighbors?
Posted by: Ray at July 28, 2008 6:00 PM
I agree that you should try to talk to your neighbors. It is possible that they do not have the right permits. Many people choose to do work this way, unfortunately. Having permits though doesn't make the work less noisy or less dusty. You would only be getting back at them. Even if you report them- which isn't so nice- it's not as if they can't get the correct permits to finish the job. It seems like you would only be stalling them for a while.
Posted by: superstooper at July 28, 2008 6:02 PM
Friendly neighbor policy is the best one. If you are bothered by noise and/or dust, dont call 311. My momma always told me not to tattle tale, it only brings problems in the future. Sometimes I think back to the days when Park Slope wasn't such a nice neighborhood & think to myself how much friendlier those days were, now no one knows their neighbor.
Posted by: caseycrespo at July 28, 2008 6:15 PM
Okay -- well what if there is no neighbor to talk to, but an out-of-town developer about to begin a teardown of a lot which shares a common driveway? And what if the DOB permits aren't in a visible location, so the neighbor can't even ascertain what's supposed to be going on?
Posted by: bibini at July 28, 2008 6:21 PM
Damn, if I knew my neighbors would be so 'don't snitch', I wouldn't have bothered to get permits at all! Who needs the waste of time and money?
Posted by: denton at July 28, 2008 6:42 PM
If OP weren't interested in being a good neighbor why would he post here in the first place? Seems to me he would have called 311 and reported the neighbor a long time ago if that was his intention so why is anyone assuming he's not trying to do the right thing? This seems to happen everytime someone posts a similar question regarding neighbors or tenants or landlords.
Anyone living next to a reno knows right off the bat there is going to be a certain amount of dirt, noise, dust and inconvenience but obviously there's something more going on here. Good neighbors would have mentioned to the people on either side of them what they were doing and what to expect and sorry for the inconvenience, noise, etc.
It isn't like Ray's house is unaffected. The workers next door pounded so hard on the party walls that my fireplace separated from the wall, and so did one downstairs. They removed their rain gutter and severely damaged the ceiling in the top floor bedroom because water pooled and dripped in. True the contractors don't work for Ray, but what they do impacts him directly so he does have a right to ask questions and to get answers. 6 months of putting up with this because his not-so-good neighbor is so clueless it hasn't occurred to him that no one else is affected? Ray is not the problem.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 28, 2008 7:31 PM
I'm amazed that the majority here seem to be so unconcerned about the issue of safety. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the permit process inextricably tied in with the inspection of critical portions of the work (particularly electrical, plumbing, and structural) with a view to forestalling crappy construction endangering the comfort and safety of residents of not only the building in question but also that of next door neighbors and the public at large? Of course, I'm assuming here the absence of corruptibility in the DOB inspectors which, given some of stories I've read, may not always be the case. I wonder how many of the posters advocating a laissez-faire attitude would be so blase if their houses were destroyed by a fire started in faulty wiring in the house next door, or if they lived in one of the Manhattan apartments destroyed by the recent crane collapse.
Posted by: johnife at July 28, 2008 8:16 PM
how was i being hostile? all i said was "be a real neighbor". alla you people should chill out!
Posted by: werner at July 29, 2008 1:06 AM
If the neighbor had permits for a full gut reno, you'd still have the same experience. The job would have been approved no doubt. So, basically you are harping on the fact that he doesn't have a full permit - get over it. And shut up. Be appreciative that he's cleaning up your neighborhood and investing money on your street.
Posted by: guest at July 29, 2008 9:52 AM
johnife,
I agree completely, but a concern about the safety of the site was not the poster's concern. The poster doesn't like the dust and noise which is going to be present with or without a permit.
The work should be done with permits and this should be a concern- again something that could be discussed with the neighbor in a rational way. . .
This doesn't resolve the problem for the poster however.
Posted by: superstooper at July 29, 2008 11:04 AM
Ageed, johnife and superstooper, but I think OP is more upset by the fact that they weren't honest with him and are ignoring his concerns, rather than the reality of dust, dirt and noise. (very different from the other complaining neighbor thread where the OP made sure to communicate with his neighbors).
we knew what to expect with the gut reno next door and the normal construction stuff wasn't an issue. The other stuff- the men pissing in our garden, loosening the fireplaces on our side, throwing garbage into our backyard, and more- that made us crazy and when the contractor didn't respond to us aksing him to resolve the problems, we called 311 as often as necessary.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 29, 2008 12:58 PM
yes it is common.
Posted by: Petebklyn at July 29, 2008 4:43 PM
I think this is common and frankly, if your neighbors can’t at least acknowledge the inconvenience you’re being caused you ought to report their asses. We went through a similar situation where the next door neighbor gutted their place. I kept my mouth shut even though they left the street/sidewalk a mess every day, left garbage in our yard, and broke through our party wall--twice. Yeah, these people were idiots. They paid for the repairs but it was a huge hassle. However, I drew the line when one of their workers severed the gas line and the gas company came rushing over to make sure they didn’t blow us all to smithereens. I called the DOB and I’m glad I did.
Posted by: misanthrope at July 29, 2008 5:15 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.