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July 25, 2008
The Flea
Not everyone loves the Flea. Who woulda thunk it?
http://racked.com/archives/2008/07/25/church_vs_commerce_parishioners_try_to_take_the_brooklyn_flea_down.php
Comments
You know the funny thing Brownstoner is in everyone else's business but cant report on this! So I better put this here before the Asshats pulls this post!
They are going to shut down The Flea! Mark my words the Flea is going down! Why? Because they are going up against the old school crowd in Fort Green. They folks have been there for years and they are Black Doctors, Lawyer and Professional people. They folk have deep ties to the political base of Brooklyn! Brownstoner has messed with the wrong crowd!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
This was posted in Racked and BTW This story is making big momentum around Brooklyn.
Posted by: what at July 25, 2008 2:08 PM
I beg to differ, What- the flea is great for a lot of people, not just Brownstoner. there are a lot of black vendors and artists so the flea offers them a venue for their businesses, and the Clinton Hill neighborhood is a perfect spot. I've done the flea myself several times and the crowds are a mix of Black as well as white.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 25, 2008 2:35 PM
REading that article it doesn't sound like, despite the What's fervent hopes, they have much chance at shutting down the flea. As someone who lives right next to it I love it and spend part of each sunday there so I hope it stays and bah humbug to the folks that want to shut it down.
Posted by: wasder at July 25, 2008 2:37 PM
Hpe you are right wasder- churches have a lot of power in their communities. I love the flea too-
Posted by: bxgrl at July 25, 2008 2:49 PM
wasder Let me tell you this. The people you are up against are not marauding teenagers. These people are long time residents of Fort Green. They are Doctors, Lawyers, Judges and High powered political people. These folks have ben running thing around Brooklyn for years. See you dumbassed Asshats thing you can do whatever you want but these people are going to shut down the Flea. I'm willing to take some bets on that!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: what at July 25, 2008 2:50 PM
But for what reason? So they can impose their wants on everyone else? How much control should any church or community group have over an entire neighborhood, and people's livelihoods? I don't think that's fair,-think who it hurts. Black businesses and artists, as well as white. Why would anyone want that?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 25, 2008 3:02 PM
The Flea issue is about being inconvenienced and churches can have just as much of a disruptive effect on community life as anyone. If you've ever lived and had to find parking on a block with a church you know exactly what I mean. I never petitioned to shut the church down though...
I wonder if they complain to NY about the Marathon.
Blacks live in a area...crime...complain.
Whites move into an area.....gentrification.....complain.
Don't pay the what any mind....he's of the messy Jesse and slick Al variety and is a classic separatist. Plus he says shit like 'they folk'. 'They folk'?
Posted by: moreteasir at July 25, 2008 3:07 PM
AMEN
Moreteasir is right and the church just needs to relax. The only reason why they have an issue is because they aren't getting anything out of deal!
Churches who have services 3 or 4 days out of the week and contribute nothing to the area are more of an burden to residents then the flea market. Parking on a block with a church or two on it is impossible.
Posted by: A ClintonHillLady at July 25, 2008 3:19 PM
moreteasir, I used to live on Schermerhorn between Court and Boerum, a few doors down from St. Helen and Constantine (or is it Constantine and Helen- can't remember). twice a year they would shut down the block for street fairs that last 4-5 days,that attracted maybe 150 people total. My sister and I were doing an art show and she had to come get me and load up the car. they wouldn't let her onto the street until I went to get the Priest and the police. Then the "guardian" of barricade called my sister the Anti-Christ. they didn't have tables in the street, that time of the morning, no one was even there. On top of that they had been told residents were to be allowed to use the street if needed.
They also used to play a tape of church bells ringing extremely loudly. Sundays after services I don't mind. Every 15 minutes to mark the time of day- oh yeah. I minded. the whole street minded. they were horrible horrible neighbors and none of the parishioners even lived in the neighborhood any longer.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 25, 2008 3:25 PM
bxgrl, that's the stuff of legend.....but exactly what I'm talking about. Lot's of take no give. Besides.....most churches rarely, if ever, do anything to improve their community. ...and instead of this church trying to become involved they react like this. Where was this church when crime in Ft. Greene was astronomical? Where was the town hall meeting then?
On another note.....Loughlin has changed quite a bit since I graduated. Class of '93!
Posted by: moreteasir at July 25, 2008 3:40 PM
bxgirl--from what I could tell from that article that was linked to it seemed like community sentiment was largely on the side of the Flea despite the dire predictions of some. I have a hard time believing that the majority (or even a significant minority) of people in my neighborhood would be against the flea market. Willing to hear otherwise of course but my sense is that it is generally positively received by the community and certainly drives interest in the neighborhood and increases revenues for local merchants.
What--why would doctors and lawyers and other long time residents be against something that brings business and cultural cache to their neighborhood?
Posted by: wasder at July 25, 2008 3:42 PM
We got so frustrated with the bells my whole building used to take turns calling their answering machine and either screaming, blowing whistles or singing filthy ditties into the phone. (I don't sing, but I have a lovely Victorian police whistle). Eventually it sunk in and they stopped it :-)
Posted by: bxgrl at July 25, 2008 3:45 PM
I wish we had a Flea over here in CHN. Maybe the Brooklyn Children's Museum will host an artisan fair once or twice a year? That would be so awesome.
St. Phillip and James in the Bronx used to have a huge wonderful carnival in their playground (also quite huge) every summer. Some of my favorite memories- I loved the little plastic ducks with numbers painted on their asses that told you what kind of prize you won. They had rides, games, cotton candy. Sigh. miss that.
Hillside, the Housing Project I grew up in also had a carnival each year too. Also great. I remember trying to dunk my dad in one of the games. (I wasn't able to- lucky for me I think). Any of the schools here run carnivals?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 25, 2008 3:51 PM
I was there last night and I had the same take on it as Racked. I was worried that I had overreacted to some of the comments, but now I don't think so. The church looked bad because more than one person had a very un-Christian attitude. At the end of the day I see it as a few old timer NIMBYs stomping their feet, but they aren't willing to negotiate. They just want it gone. I'd say the majority of the neighborhood supports the flea. The parishioners haven't got a prayer. Ha! Haven't got a prayer....get it?
http://reclaimedhome.com/2008/07/25/brooklyn-flea-vs-the-church-round-1/
Posted by: rh at July 25, 2008 4:02 PM
We want more Fleas! ...but usually Fleas just tend to get bigger and moved, they almost never splinter (unfortunately). I'd be shocked if this flea stays at Loughlin long term simply because it'll grow beyond the capacity of those gates.
Hell's kitchen has a pretty good flea.
Posted by: moreteasir at July 25, 2008 4:12 PM
Thanks for the report Reclaimed! Sounds like sour grapes by the church. If they were smart they would use the market as a way to boost their own stature and lure new attendees but they seem to just want to stick their heads in the sand and bitch.
Posted by: wasder at July 25, 2008 4:13 PM
If Jesus were here, I'm sure he would have welcomed the throngs and the opportunity to spread His message. If Queen of All Saints feels threatened by tchotchke-seekers, then maybe they should take a look at their mission. This should be a challenge to them to be welcoming, not quavering behind their stained glass--even to those who just want to use the bathroom. Paul preached endlessly in the marketplaces of empire, and even Rome itself was built at the place where all roads converged. As a tribute and stimulus to the church, I suggest you change your name from simply "the Flea" to "Queen of All Fleas". Lighten up, Christians, aren't you the light of the world?
Posted by: kerygma at July 26, 2008 1:15 PM
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