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July 7, 2008
tenant problem
I own a 3 family which I also live in. One of my tenants decided that he wanted to paint his apartment and bought paint last winter. He later asked me to help him paint and I painted his bedroom.
Now he has decided that I must paint his entire aprtment and has become hostile and aggressive, ,barraging me with nasty emails and phone calls. I have told him that I will paint his apartment, on my own schedule, and have not made any promises. Today he paid his rent, a week late, and deducted 220.00 for the paint he bought. He provided me with a credit card receipt from a paint store, with the total of his purchase, but not an itemized receipt. Is it legal for him to do this? I want to return his rent check and tell him I will reimburse him for the paint,separately from his rent when he gives me an itemized receipt and that he cannot deduct anything from his rent. Is it okay for me to do that? In 12 years, I have never had a tenant like this and am not sure how to handle the situation.
Comments
How long has he been in the apartment? Less than a year? If so, don't renew the lease.
I dunno about the legal stuff regarding his paint "deduction" but he sounds like a nutjob. Be careful and document everything.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 12:38 PM
He's been in the apartment two years, he had a lease the first year but when it expired, I decided to go month to month rather than give him another lease.
Posted by: flora at July 7, 2008 12:58 PM
did he buy 10 gallons of paint? that's the only way i can think he could have blown $220 on paint. i guess i don't understand why you're being engaged to paint his apartment though. is there something wrong with the paint job now? if it is adequate, not peeling off etc., then what does he want from you? it sounds like he has lost his mind, wanting you to paint the whole place because he's a lousy painter. tell him you need an itemized receipt because $220 seems excessive. even if he could give you a written list of the supplies he bought and their approximate cost, that might shed light on things. it really sounds like he is trying to bait you for some reason.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at July 7, 2008 1:22 PM
If he's otherwise been a good tenant, I would do as you said. Return the rent check, in person, and politely explain verbally that you don't take rent checks that have deductions in them, and that you will be happy to cut him a separate check within fifteen days after he gives you an itemized receipt for the paint.
Then I would politely explain that his rent is late, and that deducting an expense and forcing the return of the check made it more late. I would say that the tenant has a choice. That he can cut me a new check for the rent and get it directly into my hands by the end of the day (or other reasonable-yet-PDQ-type time period), and if that happens I will waive a late fee this time, since it seems there has been an honest misunderstanding.
If the rent is any later than that, though, I would explain that I would unfortunately have no choice but to enforce the late fee clause of the lease (if you have one).
I would also put a typed letter in the envelope along with the check that restates everything said here. And I would refer the tenant to that letter.
I would politely and calmly ask the tenant if he has any questions, and then see what happens.
If that interaction goes smoothly and the tenant doesn't pull any sillybusiness with the rent, then I would go back with my nice hat on and ask what's going on with the paint job--that he seems kind of upset about it, and this made you wonder if there's something about the paint job that I don't understand, that he'd like to talk to me about.
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 7, 2008 1:35 PM
oh wait - so you don't have a lease?
great - cash his last rent check, tell him he still owes you $220 and when he gives you the itemized receipt is WHEN you will pay him back for the paint - if he doesn't comply tell him simply he has until July 31 to move out!!!!!
he's being the dumb one here - not you!
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 1:37 PM
I would give this tenant his 30 days notice as a month to month tenant and have him leave. I am an owner as well and my experience is that once these strange complaints start happening they will continue.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 1:40 PM
Just want to let you all know that I got an answer from housing court. A tenant may not deduct anything from his rent, except by order of a housing court judge. I returned the tenants rent check, explained this to him and told him that I need to see the paint, and have an itemized receipt. I'm not totally sure that 220.00 is excessive, it's a 2 bedroom floor through, the real issue seems to lie elsewhere.
The apartment could use a paint job, but it's not peeling or unsanitary. Part of what makes it look bad is that the tenants former girlfriend painted two walls of the living room a hideous deep color, and the apartment is a mess, needs a good cleaning.
Posted by: flora at July 7, 2008 1:44 PM
i agree with 1:40. Get him out. Then keep his deposit ;-)
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 1:46 PM
I agree with 1.37 and 1.40. Your own house is too small of a place to deal with someone like this. They seem irrational.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 1:46 PM
Landlords of rent-regulated apartments are required to paint their tenant's apartments every three years. I remember reading the same about all apartments in NYC, but cannot find the citation right now. Regardless, it seems like a good and decent practice, both for tenant and for landlord. However, unless the tenant discussed painting with you before he bought the paint, and made arrangements with you on brand, cost and color, then you are certainly not obligated to pay. Most landlords who have friendly relations with their tenants are happy to negotiate this issue and perform the job using the landlord's painters. Most standard leases contains clauses something like this: "CHANGES AND ALTERATIONS TO APARTMENT: You cannot build in, add to, change or alter, the Apartment in any way, including wallpapering, painting, repainting, or other decorating, without getting Owner’s written consent before you do anything." A receipt with a total of $220 proves nothing, including whether the entire amount was spent on paint, and whether all the paint was used. But why debate the issues now, when there seems to have been no discussion and agreement prior to the purchase?
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 1:50 PM
Thanks vanburenproud, I have already returned his rent check with a letter of explanation, in his mailbox. I'd rather not have a face to face with him at the moment, he's been an acceptable tenant for two years, but has been raging at me for the past few weeks, so I just need to keep a distance.
I have already told him I have painters coming to look at the job and give me an estimate.
I would prefer to evict him, but I have a heart condition, had a cardiac catheter procedure in May and have to have another one soon, I'd rather not take on the stress of an eviction battle at this time. But I will if I have to.
Posted by: flora at July 7, 2008 1:51 PM
Great that you talked to housing court, this all makes sense.
Former girlfriend?
Sounds like he's having a life thing that's squirting out on you. I wouldn't kick him out over it at this point... have a heart, people!
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 7, 2008 1:52 PM
You're doing the right thing Flora. Try and keep everything calm . . . until you don't have a choice.
Had a similar problem with a prior tenant. You're being specific and putting things (professionally) in writing. Any more problems, perhaps remind him that he's free to go with 30 days notice and see if he gets the hint that leaving flexibility is a two way street.
Good luck,
Posted by: Johnny at July 7, 2008 2:04 PM
Yes, vanburen, he is definitely having issues. His hostile emails to me are full of overblown statements like this:
"When we had a rodent infestation in the building you REFUSED to pay for an exterminator!"
We had a mouse. Once. One scrawny pathetic little mouse, which I caught in a sticky trap. My response to that accusation was calm and factual.
And Johnny, I have already mentioned this flexiblity to him in response to one of his bullying emails. When he sent me an email on June 24 and said if I didn't paint his entire apartment by July 1, he'd withhold rent, I calmly replied that if he didn't pay rent I would evict him. When I went up to measure his apartment, he got in my face and told me that he'd spoken to a lawyer and if I evicted him he'd fight.
So you see the situation I'm in.
Posted by: flora at July 7, 2008 2:22 PM
It may be that your tenant is raging at you. I don't agree with vanburenproud that this is acceptable behavior from him because he broke up with his girlfriend. Have a heart, indeed - rather, he should not be abusive to one woman because he broke up with another - this is not acceptable.
Or it may be that there was some miscommunication between the two of you. It isn't clear from your post - did you agree to pay for paint he bought? If so, did you make it clear he needed to give you an itemized receipt? (some people need to be told these things....) If you agreed to pay for paint, and you think the amount sounds reasonable (did he buy paint supplies and expensive paint?), pay him for it - it is easier than fighting. (For the future, you make you life easier if you purchase the stuff yourself - then there's no room for miscommunication.)
Secondly, he bought paint for the whole apartment (which you may, or may not, have authorized him to buy.) He thinks you've agreed to have the entire apartment painted. Does he have some basis for believing this? (It sounds like he might from your posts.) If so, have it painted and be done with it. Just do it - it shouldn't take long to have done.
If you do what you agreed to do, and your tenant still is a problem, you have an easy solution since he is month-to-month. If you don't want to fight due to your health, have a lawyer handle it, and just do it. It won't get any easier for you if he acts inappropriately towards you and you ignore it.
But it sounds to me like you need to work on your skills in communicating as a landlord dealing with difficult tenants. Why would you agree to repaint a room his girlfriend painted a horrible color anyway? - that's his responsibility! And I wouldn't have agreed to pay for paint after he bought it - that was also his problem. (He buys, he paints, but only with your permission. If you pay for painting, you buy the paint.) You have to be firm with difficult people, or it only gets worse.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 2:26 PM
Sorry about your problem, Flora. As an resident owner of a 2-fam, I hope never to have your tenant problems, with or without the heart condition. Nothing much to add here, except it sounds like you are proceeding with common sense. You know your rights and are trying not to escalate. Unless this is a temproary blip in your tenant's psyche, I fear you are likely to end up going the eviction route, but there is no harm in riding it out slowly (if there is no further rent withholding) as long as you make your limits clear and stick to them, and document everything. The one thing I would add is to keep a contemporaneous log or diary of all your interactions, so you are not trying to remember later the chronology of events or the substance of your conversations. It may come in handy.
Good luck.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 7, 2008 2:33 PM
I painted his bedroom. His ex painted the ugly color in the *living room*. Maybe we need to learn better blog communication skills?
There has been some miscommunication here, but I don't think it was so much on my part as the tenants. Looking back, I suspect that by asking me what kind of paint he should buy before doing so, he really may have been hinting that he wanted me to paint his place. But he didn't say so and I'm not a mind reader.
There's a lot more to this than I previously posted, it's looooooong. First, right after he and the Ex moved in, I was fixing something in their kitchen and noticed how crappy the paint looked. I offered to repaint their kitchen, more than once, and they kept saying "No, we want to paint ourselves". So when he asked me about buying the paint, why would I assume anything but that he wanted to paint himself, as previously stated?
Posted by: flora at July 7, 2008 2:38 PM
Actually I agree with you, 2:26, especially about being very clear with tenants and setting clear limits. All of this looks avoidable if you've got a very clear lease and clear terms that you, the landlord, follow and enforce to the letter.
I don't think that the tenant's behavior is OK because he broke up with girlfriend. I inferred from the post that this tenant has been a good in the past and that his behavior changed. I was suggesting that if he is undergoing a life change and is otherwise a good guy, then maybe the best tactic is to ask him what's wrong or otherwise level with him. I mean, who among us hasn't been in a bad situation and acted badly?
I was suggesting that I have received grace in the past, and that giving someone else some grace is often the right choice.
In rereading the post and seeing the followups coming from the poster, I see that I am inferring this and don't know. Harassing emails with overblown claims of infestations are not OK. And if he's always been a jerk, then there's no reason to cut him slack.
In fact, if this is a chronic jerkiness problem, then perhaps the problem is too much slack in the first place.
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 7, 2008 2:44 PM
If you've never been to housing court you really don't understand how time-consuming and expensive the process is, even using the "best" lawyer and having the "best" case. It's not a place you want to find yourself under ordinary circumstances. Is the unknown length of his tenancy adding to your tenant's stress? I suggest you ask him. Many extraordinary time- and money-wasting tactics can and will be used if you and your tenant become truly adversarial and wind up in court. At minimum, prepare a short-term lease for your tenant (that is, a 30-day lease), which you can choose to renew or not every thirty days. Let your tenant know that to avoid any confusion in the future you realize it's best for both parties to have terms and conditions in writing and to adhere to them. Since you're not well, and don't want added stress yourself, maybe you should communicate that to your tenant and suggest that he begin looking for a new place (but be aware that such notice can work either way). A sample lease with a month-to-month clause you can discuss with your attorney can be viewed at:
http://www.ilrg.com/forms/lease-res/us/ny
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 3:11 PM
Flora - communication is what gets communicated between two people - it doesn't (and can't) exist solely on one side or another.
Did you agree to let him paint? I wouldn't have until he repainted the horrible color the girlfriend painted. In fact, if I had a tenant who painted (or allowed his girlfriend to paint) walls a horrible color, I'd never allow him to paint again - ever - I'd take care of all the painting myself. Same if he painted without your permission. And anyways, I'd always approve the colors first, whoever does the painting.
Yes, you do need to learn better communication skills. It was stupid to threaten to evict him - you just escalated the situation. It could be predicted that he would then tell you he talked to an attorney and would fight. Let him threaten - it's the expected reaction to a threat. If he doesn't pay, call a lawyer - no need to threaten.
Don't threaten him back. Stop escalating the situation. You have the upper hand here - you just don't seem to act like you do, and that shows him that you are weak. Not where you want to be in this situation with a raging guy. But your actions have partly created this situation. You need to see it as a business with agreements made in writing. And when those agreements are violated, then act.
I think he made the rent deduction because he is stressed for money now. Who knows if it is a legit receipt - it doesn't really matter anyway at this point.
If you had his bedroom painted with paint he bought, why didn't you discuss at that time who would be responsible for paying for the paint? Seems like a logical thing to discuss upfront to me. And if he expected you to pay for it, you should have asked for the receipt before you applied paint to the walls. Deal with situations logically in advance and you save yourself a lot of hassle.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 3:49 PM
Good luck OP hang in there. I think it's best if he left your circle. He showed his true colors in those emails. You dont need the negative energy. Use his deposit to repaint the place for a new tenant. Lot's of tenants out there!
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 3:51 PM
I agree that I am partly responsible for this situation, because I didn't keep the L/T relationship 100% business, I've been too friendly with the tenants and have learned my lesson.
But some incorrect assumptions are being made here. I did agree to let him paint because he assured me that he had painting experience, would let me approve the colors, and would do a good job. He also didn't like the color the EX painted and commented that the work was poorly done (it was). I painted his bedroom myself.
I see now that things should have been discussed more clearly, but his approach is not conducive to good communication. It doesn't always take two to tango, some people are perfectly capable of solo performances.
The tenant is hardly stressed for money, he makes a very good salary and is from money as well. That isn't what this is about, it's a power play. One cannot deal logically with a person who's being irrational.
Posted by: flora at July 7, 2008 4:06 PM
Yes, but even if he has poor communication skills, or is manipulative, you don't have to give in.
I wouldn't have painted someone's bedroom after he bought paint without my approval. (Or did you approve it?) Ditto if he said he was going to paint and I had approved it. You are being manipulated. It won't stop unless you don't let it happen.
If the other person is doing a power play and acting irrationally, your ONLY option is to act rationally yourself. It sounds to me from your statements and actions that you both don't act so rationally.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 4:14 PM
Give the tenant his 30 days notice in writing, get rid of him and cut your losses short.
Remember, if you have his security deposit for the apartment give it back with the deduction of what he owes you from the cans of paint he cheekily deducted .
Don't forget to send the security deposit certified return receipt requested mail from the post office.Include in the envelope a letter stating you did not authorize him to deduct the paint from the rent.
Explanation for partial security return.
Make copies.
30days notice letter should be separate from security deposit.
It is 2 separate entities.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 7, 2008 4:18 PM
Yeah, take legal advice from Ysabelle - NOT!
Talk to an attorney before you evict - make your life easier.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 4:23 PM
I hope it doesn't become "it takes two to tango week"...
That said, I think it's helpful to keep in mind that the phrase is supposed to be empowering, not finger-wagging.
Even if the tenant is acting irrational, you always have options that solve the problem instead of making it worse. There is no such thing as a solo performance, and that is a good thing!
It's hard to backtrack and make things right--it sounds like the situation is quite muddled.
Don't blame yourself or blame the tenant's irrational behavior or blame anything else. That's just going to keep you in the spiral of confusion. Just figure out what needs to be clarified, write that down, and communicate it to the tenant, verbally and in a letter.
If the situation works out, then great. You've salvaged it. If the BS continues, say nothing and call a lawyer.
I think the advice about remembering that you have the power in this situation is important to keep in mind.
Good luck!
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 7, 2008 4:49 PM
To guest4:23pm.
It is easy for you to piss somebody's elses money away.
You think everybody's rich and too incompetent to do things on their own.
Talking to an attorney you write. You think it is cheap for a professional to fight the battle for you. You will be held hostage by the lawyer as he does a polka thru your wallet.
You think being tortured by 2 people ( tenant and new lawyer)
is easier.
man, what a sadistic response you gave to an innocent person having a garden variety problem with a tenant.
What happened to common sense!
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 7, 2008 4:53 PM
To guest 4:23pm
I am not giving legal advice.
I am giving advice on the procedue only.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 7, 2008 4:58 PM
To guest 4:23pm
I am not giving legal advice.
I am giving advice on the procedue only.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 7, 2008 4:59 PM
Ysabelle, this person is concerned about having to evict while experiencing cardiac problems, and sounded like they wanted to prolong the situation (adding more stress) as a result. Sounds like the perfect time to pay a professional to handle the problem. A few hundred to an attorney will be cheaper than missed rent if the tenant stops paying - he's already stopped paying fully. There's penny-wise and pound-foolish, you know. If the situation does not get better, she should get an attorney recommened by someone she trusts - you don't hire an attorney, any more than you'd hire a contractor, without getting recommendations.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 5:02 PM
I think that was obvious, Ysabelle.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 5:04 PM
Dear Flora
Due to your having serious cardiac issues it might be wise to seriously consider to find a way to remove the irrational tenant.
Whether he is rich or comes from money is a minor subject. Who cares!
Stress is dangerous to your health.
I wish I could say the removal might be peaceful but it might not be.
If you did not live in the same building your situation might be less stressful.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 7, 2008 5:28 PM
Well, I'd be in agreement with the notify/evict majority, which is everyone.
But if you are stressed out about your heart, let him do his thing. Your health vs. $220?
When I lived in BH in a rental a long time ago, I had the same deal w the landlord. He let me deduct paint from the rent every three years (free market apt) and do my thing.
PS, I am painting the top floor of a gut reno in the South Slope right now, about 1000 sft. I've already been thru much of the second 5gal pail of quality primer, 5 gals first quality BM eggshell, 2 gals cheaper BM eggshell for the insides of two closets, and a gal of semi-gloss trim for the windows. I must be close to $1000 in paint, and I'm only half done. So $220 ain't bad.
Posted by: denton at July 7, 2008 6:12 PM
The value of having an attorney write the letter to the tenant is that it MIGHT put a buffer between the tenant and owner, which MIGHT change the dynamic and MIGHT actually reflect the law, rather than what many presume to be an owner's or tenant's rights. After receiving notice from an attorney, hopefully the tenant will understand that owner has some "back-up". Hopefully, the owner will employ a skilled and skillful professional (easier said than found). Flora, there's nothing wrong with being friendly with your tenant. You can be friends, have a heart, and still maintain both your position and integrity when it comes to the business part of being a homeowner and landlord.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 6:15 PM
"I had the same deal w the landlord"
Key word here is deal. I had no such deal with my tenant. Thanks to everyone for all your input, sincerely, it's interesting to hear the different takes on this. Just one last question
I do have a good lawyer, don't feel that it's quite come to that point yet, but if the tenant doesn't calm down and pay his rent, I'll let the lawyer handle it. I also think I'm going to hire a management company and not deal with the tenants at all going forward.
Just one last question to the fellow landlords here: if you had a tenant who threatened to withhold rent to force you to do work in his/her apartment that you actually are not required to do, or not able to do as soon as they are demanding, how would you respond to the threat to withhold rent?
Posted by: flora at July 7, 2008 6:32 PM
I think it's too late to deal with this on your own. hire a lawyer to write a certified letter to the tenant that explains why he cannot withhold rent, and that the paint is for the tenant to apply, not the owner.
give the tenant an out if he wants to bail, and make it clear he will not be speaking to you like this ever again. hire a good lawyer.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 7:28 PM
I'm speaking as a tenant here. In my old apartment building we had a tenant who was a lawyer. Every little thing she could make an issue of, she did. We did have a rodent problem at one point when they did all the construction downtown and their entire neighborhood saw a huge influx of rats. she called the DOB to complain the landlady kept the building as a slum (so not true- my landlady was one of the best and a really really nice person). Needless to say, one bad tenant can make you miserable. I got to see both sides of the issue as I was the building manager for the landlady- sometimes tenants just have a me-vs-you mindset and nothing makes a difference.
Your tenant really is out of bounds. He is acting illegally- which housing court really frowns on and should he fight you on this, no judge will allow it. He should have gotten permission and I am not sure of how often you have to paint, but it sounds like he and his ex have been painting, and they shouldn't have been. You are also within your rights to insist they only use certain colors, you don't have to allow hideous shades of greens or reds.
Maybe letting him know that his is a month to month, what he is legally allowed to do, and legally what you are obligated to supply will be enough to make him calm down. I'm sure he doesn't want to lose a nice place to live. If he is determined to make your life miserable there's not much you can do except legally evict him with 30 days notice, but as everyone has pointed out, it's a really unpleasant process.
Make sure you know what your rights are too- for the type of building you have and number of units. Ultimately it's your home, first and foremost. Good luck- hope you can work it out.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 7, 2008 7:54 PM
I have to wonder about all those who are telling Flora the problem is her poor communication and she should continue to put up with him. I doubt you'd be giving that advice to a man. I don't care what the tenant thought, his behavior is inappropriate and not to be tolerated.
Once a tenant gets an attitude it doesn't improve. You don't have a lease with him so give him his 30 days notice and get him out.
In my 2 family house where I live, I had tenants 3 years ago who threatened to repair and deduct without cause (among a lot of other things). They were OK (not great) for the first one year lease. As soon as the second one year lease was signed they became impossible.
I wrote a strongly worded lengthy letter which I had an attorney review prior to sending it registered and hand delivered to their door. I used words like egregious, inappropriate, harassment, not legiimate, violation, spiteful, despicable. I followed up my letter with posting a "Notice to Cure" for every single lease violation and they were still furious when I refused to renew their lease a year later.
They can only "repair and deduct" if the conditions substantially breach the warranty of habitability and affect the tenant's health and safety. Aesthetically displeasing paint color and poor quality paint job don't do it.
In your case, without a lease, I believe you can still post a Notice to Cure for the overdue rent. Get him out now.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 8:17 PM
"Just one last question to the fellow landlords here: if you had a tenant who threatened to withhold rent to force you to do work in his/her apartment that you actually are not required to do, or not able to do as soon as they are demanding, how would you respond to the threat to withhold rent?"
We always bring up the lease. It clearly states, rent can not be withheld because of repairs.
Your choice of words like, "force" and "demanding" worry me.
Take ownership of your home and be firm. Your tenant is taking advantage of you.
I think hiring an outside agency to deal with him is a bad idea at this point. You guys were buddie buddie.
He will smell your fear and as soon as they (agency) leave, he may scare you and cause all sorts of complications.
Talk to him and explain your heart condition... then tell him your lawyer is taking over, you're exhausted. And keep it moving.
You don’t need the stress, and plus you know his business so it's all good.
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 8:36 PM
He's playing an emotional game with you. I think you're making this far more difficult than it needs to be. Don't sweat the small stuff, ( and that's what this is ).. Remind him who the landlord is and ask him to leave.
Posted by: Rick at July 7, 2008 8:56 PM
I disagree that a man would never be offered the advice to communicate more clearly, 8:17.
I am a woman, and I deal with all landlord/tenant issues because my (male) partner is way too nice about stuff and winds up assuming that everyone's on the same page.
Flora's situation could easily happen to my partner, because he assumes that people are nice.
This makes him one of my favorite human beings, but he and I can both admit he's not the greatest landlord.
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 7, 2008 9:45 PM
For a fraction of the cost of a lawyer, I will remove this individual from your home. done and done. feh
Posted by: guest at July 7, 2008 10:38 PM
Stay away from confrontational situations with this particular tenant.
Do not engage him. The situation can be troublesome beyond your control.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 7, 2008 11:14 PM
don't know if this is a help or not but bodhi brooklyn posted on the dog walker thread about Safe Horizon providing a free mediation service and maybe that might be worth trying- assuming the tenant wants to be reasonable.
If he doesn't, I'm not sure the tenant hasn't already gotten a take no prisoners attitude for whatever reason, and really wants to create as much difficulty as he can. In the long run it's up to you to decide what would create the least amount of stress- living with him under your roof and wondering what else he'll do, or evicting him. If he refuses to even discuss the situation with you, maybe this would be the time to get the managing agency you were considering and let them take care of it.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 7, 2008 11:31 PM
Keep your fingers crossed he does not file an hp (housing part) in housing court.
HP filers get free lawyers from the court, regardless of assets or income .
Yes, it applies to all rentals free maket as well
Ny has kafkaesque laws on every subject known to man!
Go to the website Unified court system and search.
NYC civil court housing part
Starting an hp proceeding to get repairs.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 7, 2008 11:41 PM
Thanks bxgrl, mediation is a possibility. This tenant either has to straighten up or he's out, no question. I would offer mediation but I doubt if he'll go. And I seriously doubt if he'd file an hp for the same reason-he works 80 hours a week and wouldn't take the time. I already served him with a rental agreement rider notice that his rent is going up 350.00 August first, I returned the rent check he gave me today, refusing to accept it because the amount was incorrect. The reason I'm going to hire a management company is not that I'm afraid of my tenants, it's that I don't want to spend my time doing crap like this. My purpose in life is making art, not squabbling with aggro yuppies. And vanburenproud, I know what you mean, the man I bought this place from was going into foreclosure because he was just too nice. The tenants here were paying nothing, he tried to raise their rent $50 and they all screamed, so he backed down, and couldn't keep up his mortgage payments.When I bought this place, th first thing I did was get rid of those tenants, and I will do the same with this guy if he doesn't straighten out immediately. Like I said before, I'd rather not go through an eviction, but I'll do what I have to do.
Posted by: flora at July 8, 2008 1:09 AM
You're an artist - now it all makes sense. If you don't want to do this business, why are you doing it for a business? Becuase the 'yuppies' you disparage who work so hard pay you rent, that's why. Seems to me complaining about the hours people work to pay you your rent is rather pointless. Maybe you shouldn't rent to workers, only trust funders. Mediation isn't appropriate in this case anyway, in my opinion. Hiring a management company won't really help you to not deal with your tenants when you live in the building, you do realize. Except I think you like this too much.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 1:22 AM
You raised his rent $350 per month, so he responded by insisting you finish painting the place, and you refused. Who sounds unreasonable here?
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 1:35 AM
Hey 1:22, get your anonymous pussy self off Flora's back--especially about being an artist! Not only are you attacking anonymously, which is weak, but your post is full of stereotypes that are not substantiated in the actual posts! I don't see anything here that suggests she likes what's going on.
Hiring a mgmt company is an efficient way to handle the problem going forward so that you can focus on what you need to do. Just based on the way the facts have evolved over time in this post, there you do sound like someone who leaves things unsaid, and who doesn't mind ambiguity. These are common and *positive* traits in an artist. But it leads to conflict in this specific kind of situation. You shouldn't have to change yourself. Good for you for hiring a mgmt company, so that you don't have to deal with it.
FWIW, I think that there is a bias on Brownstoner that equates "good landlord" with "good person." I don't think this bias makes sense. Being a landlord is not easy--it's a specific and paradoxical set of skills and tasks that I do not think of as intuitive.
I wish people would stop assuming that anyone who's having a hard time being a landlord is defective.
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 8, 2008 8:04 AM
"FWIW, I think that there is a bias on Brownstoner that equates "good landlord" with "good person.." I don't think this bias makes sense. "
Did you mean "bad" person? Otherwise I'm not sure which point you were making.
I don't think you can be held liable for bad communication skills, Flora, or with being ambiguous. In fact I think its a stretch for anyone to assume much about anyone's character just by reading posts but if the dog walker thread was any indication, brownstoner is filled with "assumers".
Your tenant indulged in a typically manipulative move, with little to no understanding of his own legal position. He does seem well equipped with a sense of entitlement tho'. But some people can take one word and extrapolate it into an entire fantasy world- bottom line- he didn't ask you to paint, he told you he wanted to paint and asked for your ok. That's a major difference.
The other point is that you did not refuse to paint, but that it would be put into your schedule. No tenant in their right mind expects that for a non-emergency issue it would be done on demand. Within a reasonable amount of time, sure. But not on the tenant's time frame.
I am wondering when you notified him the rent was going up? 350$ is a big jump- did he start getting hostile after that? certainly doesn't justify his behavior but he seems so angry at you and it doesn't seem likely a break up with his girlfriend would be the reason. maybe he's feeling the increase in rent entitles him to paint- be that as it may, he still doesn't have a leg to stand on and threatening anyone, especially in a letter or an email so that you can prove in court his behavior, is a truly idiotic thing to do.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 8, 2008 9:39 AM
Ever notice how much assuming is done by the same people complaining about assumers, and how much complaining is done by the same people complaining about complainers? And ever notice how the world runs on assumptions (which, btw, becomes a useful way to dismiss interpretations that don't match yours).
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 10:35 AM
10:35- then by your lights we can assume you're simply a troll with nothing useful to add to the thread. Just my assumption because assumptions make the world go 'round.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 10:45 AM
My "trolling" contributions were made at 1:50 and 3:11 yesterday, and I didn't have to dismiss the input of others posters in order to add my own thoughts.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 10:54 AM
If you don't possess any of the skills to be a landlord, you shouldn't be one. Period. You only get into stuff like this with tenants because you are in control of a big part of their lives, their home - and it is their home even if you own the building - and you can't keep your tenants happy. It's just like any client/customer management, really. Some people skills and clear communication are necessary, or you just end up in endless conflict. (Some poeple like the drama of that..."poor little me."
I have developed the needed skills through my jobs, but I have learned enough to never want to be a landlord in a small building I live in - too much potential for conflict. I can't ever imagine being a sorry sort complaining online that I don't know what to do with my angry tenant (whose rent I just raised $350), with my medical ailments thrown in to make me look weak. Later, it appears OP knows exactly how to get rid of tenants, and has experience doing it. Doesn't know what to do in this situation indeed...just wants anonymous support online for her lousy management of her building.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 11:35 AM
What reasonable, non-conflict-seeking landlords do:
1. Paint an apartment that needs it BEFORE the tenants move in.
2. Buy your supplies for things (like paining your apartments) yourself. Have the work done yourself - don't make your tenants do it / don't allow them to do it.
3. Understand that there is never such a thing as "just one mouse." Ever.
4. Give your tenants a lease. Don't refuse to give a lease and have them be month to month tenants. If you want them to move out at the end of a lease and don't want to renew, let them know in advance so they can find another place and move out by the end of the lease. Refusing to renew and going month to month is just asking for conflict.
5. Don't raise the rent in large increments at one time - a smaller amount each year is better.
6. Understand that your health problems don't really change the contract you have made.
7. Understand that providing decent accomodations (paint when walls are dirty, not just after paint has chipped and peeled) for the rent you charge, especially when market rate, is just good business sense. Do what you can to keep the place looking good, and upgrade things the the apartment periodically.
8. If you paint when the tenant lives there, hire it done - so it is done quickly in 1 or 2 days - don't paint it piecemeal yourself on your own schedule. Get the work done and get out so the tenant can enjoy their home.
9. Don't act like you are somehow better than your tenants because you don't have to work for a living.
All common sense, really. If you lack it as a landlord, recognize that you are responsible for much of the conflict in your life.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 12:05 PM
Then, if you don't mind my asking- just what was your post at 10:35?
However I do assume that, judging from your earlier and informative posts you certainly aren't the obnoxious idiot who posted at 11:35- and didn't we hear from you, 11:35 on the dog walker thread? After reading what you wrote, I'm really curious what people skills you actually think you have.
I just can't believe how someone can ask for information or suggestions and get personally ripped by every scenario writing aggro-poster who simply can't be bothered to read what the woman actually wrote.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 12:06 PM
You can't understand that? Maybe because you've never had a similarly lousy landlord - but most of us had one (or more) at some point.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 12:14 PM
Hey 2:06 - 11:35 here - not interested in the dog walker thing at all. Just because people disagree with your point of view doesn't mean they are all one person.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 12:21 PM
11:35 an 12:05- since none of us are privy to the entire situation, don't you think it's a little over the top to accuse the landlord of not having the skills to be a landlord (she's been for 12 years), not painting the apartment or being a drama queen?
the tenant moved in what-3 years ago? do you know the condition of the apartment then? Do you even know what the condition is now? No.
she didn't make her tenant do anything- he took it upon himself to get paint, pick colors, and then buy more paint and then demand she paint the entire apartment. Where did she force him to do anything? He bought paint without authorization- sorry. In the real world you can't expect to be reimbursed for that.
"9. Don't act like you are somehow better than your tenants because you don't have to work for a living."- where the hell does this come from?
As for your other comments about hiring a painter- did you not read where she posted has called painters for an estimate? Jeez- talk about lacking communication AND reading comprehension skills-you two are the best!
Posted by: bxgrl at July 8, 2008 12:23 PM
Yeah, well 12:14 , your past is your problem. You're reacting to her because you had a bad landlord in the past. News for you: me too. But I figure I should just read what the OP said and judge it by that, not by my past bad landlord.
and 12:21- you're correct. It doesn't. But you still come off as hostile as 12:14 and without any real reason to. You're doing the same thing he's doing- putting your issues onto the OP, so you'll forgive me if I can't see much difference.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 12:31 PM
bxgrl: you're the one not reading
Tenant moved in two years ago: "He's been in the apartment two years."
Paint was in lousy condition before tenants moved in: "First, right after he and the Ex moved in, I was fixing something in their kitchen and noticed how crappy the paint looked."
It isn't at all clear about what she authorized about the paint and painting: "I did agree to let him paint because he assured me that he had painting experience, would let me approve the colors.."
And where did #9 come from: Well, from this:
"I don't want to spend my time doing crap like this." "My purpose in life is making art, not squabbling with aggro yuppies." "...he works 80 hours a week."
And the drama? All over the posts...
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 12:51 PM
Landlord/tenant is a relationship bound by set of rules and regulation. Like any real relationship, its based on common trust, goodwill, and understanding which even the best of laws/rules can't ever replace and replicate. Sometimes relationship deteriorates for some reasons known or unknown. This is when rules and regulations kick in but the damage is done and assessed. However, relationship is no longer landlord or tenant control but under a third-party custody. One must decide whether to continue with the relationship in its current state or seek new one but nothing is free.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 1:08 PM
12:51- I have several questions in re what you said. Flora also said part of the problem is the hideous color the tenants girlfriend painted in the apartment, and that the apartment is a mess and needs cleaning. But this is after 2 years of the tenant living in the apartment, so we still don't really know. It may not have been the best paint job but obviously when the tenant moved in it was acceptable as there seems to have been no discussion abut a new paint job. Again, we really don't know- but there's certainly not enough for you to assume she is monster landlady.
According to her, he presented her with a receipt for paint after the fact. Why assume she's lying? Landlords have to paint every - and I could be wrong but i think it's every 5 years. I'm sure someone will correct me on that :-). But they also get to pick or approve the colors. that's their right. Most usually don't care if a tenant paints what colors they please but the landlord is not responsible if in fact the apartment has been painted in the specified time span, and is in good condition. Nor do they have to pay for paint if they don't approve the color or if they did not authorize the purchase.
as for #9- why shouldn't she feel that way about aggro tenants? she's got medical problems, she has huge responsibilities and why should anyone have to deal with people who are threatening and nasty? The comment about 80 hours a week had to do with his ability to pay, not work ethics. Since she also says he is "from money", his behavior says more about his air of entitlement than hers. You also decided that she must be rich enough not to work- nowhere does she state that. Artists do work, you know. As for his behavior, she did tell him she had painters coming to look at the place- so what was his problem. when he said jump she didn't say how high?
I'm a tenant and only once have I ever had a problem with my landlord. I don't expect them to roll over and play dead for me, and in return I expect to be treated fairly and according to my lease. I talk with them as much as possible to avert problems- that's what you learn growing up in NYC apartments. It's a 2 way street.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 8, 2008 1:31 PM
sure, it is a two way street. And I agree talking is the way to deal - which is why leaving notes and refusing to talk to a tenant doesn't really make sense.
sure, artists work, but many make very little money from it. I bet she makes the bulk of her money from being landlord - that's the business she's really in.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 1:47 PM
Again, you're assuming. Where does she say she refuses to speak to him? But she has every right to refuse to respond to threats and harassment- which the nasty phone calls are. and as I said, he's leaving his own paper trail with the emails.
And for all you know she could be quite successful as an artist so your statement about how she makes the bulk of her money is both demeaning and created out of nothing but your own ignorance.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 8, 2008 1:53 PM
Bxgrl take your petty bickering somewhere else. Get a life and some real friends. LOSER.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 2:41 PM
guest at July 8, 2008 1:22 AM: The issues are far too complicated to explain here, and since you have some kind of problem with artists, you probably wouldn't listen anyway. Let's just say you don't get it and leave it at that.
guest at July 8, 2008 1:35 AM: I raised his rent AFTER the nasty phone calls, nasty emails, threats and harassment, not before. Perhaps you should get the facts before commenting
vanburenproud at July 8, 2008 8:04 AM: Thanks for your input, you do seem to know more about this landlording business than anyone else.
As far as my personality though, I have often been accused of being too direct and blunt, not ambiguous. It might seem that way on this blog though because this is a complicated situation and I don't have time to post all of the details.
bxgrl at July 8, 2008 9:39 AM: I raised his rent after the nasty phone calls, nasty emails, threats and harassment. His girlfriend moved out last fall, so I don't think that's the reason for his current rage, he may have gotten dumped again, but I don't really know.
guest at July 8, 2008 11:35 AM: I've been a landlord for 12 years and never had a situation like this so I have to say your judgmental and hostile post is also completely wrong, without bothering to address the rest of your insults, except to say I *totally* agree that you lack the needed skills to be a landlord.
guest at July 8, 2008 12:05 PM: I'm noticing that all the real jerks sign in as "guest".
I. I did paint before he moved in.
2.I do buy my own supplies.
3.Oh yes there can be "just one mouse",there was only one in 12 years, I caught it in a sticky trap and there has not been a single mouse in the building since then, over a year ago.
4. I didn't refuse to give him a lease, just didn't give him one, and he didn't ask for one. Thank god didn't, it would be much harder to get him out if he had a lease.
5. Normally I raise the rents $50 per year, except when need to make a market adjustment, or I want a tenant to move.
6. I never said they did.
7. You haven't seen the apartment, for the most part it looks fine and I am totally willing to repaint the areas that need it, but the tenant has to cooperate, which he does not.
8. You really do not know what you're talking about.
9. Ditto. I'm laughing out loud at this one, Just because I'm lucky enough to have work that I love doesn't mean I don't have to work for a living, I work very hard.
guest at July 8, 2008 12:14 PM: You've never had a landlord as good as me, ever.
guest at July 8, 2008 12:51 PM: You take things out of context and twist the truth.
guest at July 8, 2008 1:08 PM: agreed
bxgrl at July 8, 2008 1:31 PM: Good points.
guest at July 8, 2008 1:47 PM: Wrong again. I have tried to talk to the tenant, when I do, he yells. gets right in my face in a threatening way, insults me, makes b.s. accusations and threats. So I stopped. I have told him I'd be happy to talk to him if he can be reasonably calm and civil, but he can't.
And you're totally wrong about my source of income, the building is actually losing money because of major improvements I made. My art is my source of income.
bxgrl at July 8, 2008 1:53 PM: right again
guest at July 8, 2008 2:41 PM: So pathetic that when you disagree with someone and basically have nothing at all useful to say, you just resort to name calling.
Okay, kids, I'm done here. My original question, can the tenant deduct this money from his rent, was not answered here, but by the housing court.
And my second question, what would you landlords do if you had a nasty tenant who refused to pay rent, was never answered by anyone.
I realize that these forums are infested with flamers like the rest of the internet so I expected a lot of stupid, pointless insulting posts, and I was not disappointed.
But I also heard some thoughtful responses from people and I thank you all.
Posted by: flora at July 8, 2008 4:00 PM
oh yeah, "pay me $350 more a month" is real direct communication - when you want to say "move out, your tenancy is over." Actually, it means "pay me $350 more a month."
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 4:43 PM
Flora- so sorry you get to deal with the flamers. And it was probably best to get your info from housing court- they're the experts. Of course as a tenant my advice is probably not helpful but for what its worth- give the guy 30 days notice and be rid of him. He sounds off the wall, and out of control. I don't see him being able to ratchet it down despite his being completely in the wrong. His girlfriend may have had a good reason for leaving. Once they start making threats, you're done. No one has the right to threaten you or harass or try to frighten you- especially not in your own home. I'm sure you won't have any problem finding another, and better tenant.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 8, 2008 5:51 PM
Flora, your questions were answered over and over again. I'm starting to think you just wanted a heated back and forth debate over your issue which is not that big of a deal.
Did you have an affair with your tenant? Why is he running the show? And he's all up in your face? weird
ONE word "Lease" learn it and love it if you want to be a landlord in NYC. If not sell the damn house and move in with Bxgrl and paint pictures of cockroaches in her stinkin basement.
For the record I did contribute over and over again and asked you to move forward with legal the stress is not worth it. I felt bad and I think the petty bickering between the posters is silly.
But since you called me out and I'm all in your face now.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 5:57 PM
Let's see, "I did paint before he moved in," but "right after he and the Ex moved in, I was fixing something in their kitchen and noticed how crappy the paint looked."
Basically, the paint job you did, or had done, was crappy, as you yourself said. "I offered to repaint their kitchen, more than once, and they kept saying "No, we want to paint ourselves". I'd guess that your work was such that they didn't trust you to do any better job the second time.
"I did agree to let him paint because he assured me that he had painting experience, would let me approve the colors, and would do a good job." "So when he asked me about buying the paint, why would I assume anything but that he wanted to paint himself?"
Why indeed? - because you offered "many times" to repaint the crappy job you did (presumably with you paying for the paint), but they didn't trust you to do any better job than you did the first time. He was going to paint, but it was at best ambiguous at this point who would be paying for the paint, as you say yourself, "I see now that things should have been discussed more clearly."
"I do buy my own supplies," but "I painted his bedroom myself," and, since this was after he bought the paint, after you agreed to let him paint, presumably you applied the paint that he bought to the walls in the bedroom. So you didn't buy your own supplies, or if you did, then you didn't reimburse him for buying them for you.
Ok, maybe I have some of this wrong, but remember, while "perhaps you should get the facts before commenting,"..."I don't have time to post all of the details." (So I only know what you've told us. Given that you say "this is a complicated situation and I don't have time to post all of the details,"
I can't help but wonder what exactly "I've been too friendly with the tenants" means. I did think it was odd that you referred to his girlfriend as the "Ex." Hmmm...)
Yes, you pissed me off, because I posted some very sympathetic and supportive comments above, but then after you let out more and more facts, it became clear that the simple picture you painted with your first post was far from simple (or accurate.) I can see that you need to manipulate the facts here so as to get sympathy (it worked), but it became clear that you are just not upfront or a square dealer, either in your posts here or in dealing with your tenant.
You stared out with "one of my tenants decided that he wanted to paint his apartment and bought paint last winter," with no mention of the admittedly crappy paint job you did just before he moved in, of your offer "many times" to repaint, or your then agreement to let him paint and to approve the colors, or that "I have told him that I will paint his apartment, on my own schedule, and have not made any promises." (Huh? "I have told him that I will paint his apartment" sounds like a promise to me...)
I've never had a landlord who raised my rent by a big chunk - ever. (And thus certainly never because they wanted me to move out.) Your "normally I raise the rents $50 per year, except when need to make a market adjustment, or I want a tenant to move" says it all. No one "has" to make a market adjustment on an existing tenant - that just means is that as the landlord, you can get more now, so you will. That's your choice, but *smart* landlords do the big jumps *between* tenants, so as to keep their existing tenants happy.
I always moved because I was ready to move on to a bigger or better place. I was a good tenant when I rented, because I *do* have some skills - I can see that when someone gets angry at me, there is usually some cause to it - I'm not stupid enough to believe it is all them and not me, not the interaction that exists between the two of us. You can't see that it is a two-way dynamic - no, it is all his fault, as you keep insisting, over and over again, in your posts.
All I'm saying, is given all you've said, it is very obvious to me why your tenant is angry with you (even without knowing what else went on between you). A reasonable paint job is not an unreasonable expectation from a market-rate tenant. You didn't provide it. You muddied up the painting thing terribly, then decided it was all his fault.
You told us "I decided to go month to month rather than give him another lease." Then you say "I didn't refuse to give him a lease, just didn't give him one, and he didn't ask for one" - as if that matters, when you had already *decided* not to give him one, and made that clear by not giving him one.
I'm not excusing any of his behavior that was inappropriate, and I do think you will have to end his tenancy - but then why not just do it? Why mess around with more poor communication by raising his rent instead? Especially when he sounds like he can afford the increase? No wonder you keep escalating things with your letters to him - you can't bring yourself to just come out and directly end his tenancy. Why not? (Because you aren't willing to give up his rent, I suspect. At the very least, the place would remain empty for a few days because you clearly need to paint.)
And if you can't see that you are a part of what happened, then you do lack certain communication skills. Keep manipulating the facts to get sympathy from people without all the facts, and you'll never learn any.
Yes, you aren't required to paint - not ever, I don't think, in a non-stabilized unit, unless there is lead paint peeling off the walls. That doesn't mean it isn't smart to give market rate tenants a decent paint job before they move in. If you can't do a good job yourself, why don't you pay someone? Are you too cheap? (I know you are getting estimates now, but 2 years later? A little late, given all the water under the bridge.) Besides, you want him to move. What are you going to do, raise his rent $350 every month until he does? Oh, that's real smart.
You do have all the power here - you don't have to paint, you don't have to give him a renewal lease, you can raise his rent as much as you want, as often as you want (OK, every 30 days), and you can end his tenancy any time on 30 days notice. You should at least recognize, as good landlords do, that you have all the power here, and deal more clearly and directly with your tenant. After saying you'd paint, and then saying "I have not made any promises," you aren't being clear or even-handed with him.
Oh, and then there’s "the building is actually losing money because of major improvements I made." My guess is that these improvements benefit you far more than your tenant, as you won't even pay for a decent paint job in his apartment. You are taking in rent and using it to improve your building - the building is not losing money, you are reinvesting the money you earn on it in improvements. (Oh, poor me, I'm fixing up my place and I'm losing money!)
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 6:33 PM
Man, you two are beyond trollish. Accusing her of sleeping with the tenant, don't you think that just a little sexist? That last long-winded pompous post, dude, you are the assumer of all assumers on this site. Why don't you two crawl back under your bridge?
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 8:06 PM
Sexist, no, and I ain't a dude. It's all potentially there in what she wrote. At least two of us (we aren't the same person) came to the same question completely independently (the second comment was posted before the first comment appeared.)
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 8:31 PM
I can only surmise that your assumption that she's having a problem with the tenant because she's sleeping with him is a reflection of your lifestyle. Nothing Flora wrote hints at any kind of sexual relationship. Women can be sexist too, obviously.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 9:13 PM
Hardly. You just aren't attuned to the language women use and it how to read between the lines.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 9:31 PM
"Sexist, no, and I ain't a dude. It's all potentially there in what she wrote."
And that's the whole point- You said "potentially." Not really. Not actually. Potentially as in maybe as in I am assuming that the scenario in my head is the real one.
9:13's right. Nothing flora says indicates anything about sleeping with the tenant and everything you've quoted, you then extrapolated into a scenario you've written, not the OP. Reading between the lines is fine when you know someone, but you don't in this case- you've invented Flora the landlady from hell from what you think she is "potentially" saying. Maybe you're not as attuned to the language of women as you boast.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 8, 2008 10:13 PM
No, it's just that my mind isn't in the gutter like yours is.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 10:14 PM
this-
"No, it's just that my mind isn't in the gutter like yours is."
Was in response to this genius-
"Hardly. You just aren't attuned to the language women use and it how to read between the lines."
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 10:38 PM
I don’t understand why asking if she had an affair with the tenant makes me a sexist. Yes I'm a dude and I’m not accusing her I just asked a question.
She did write "former girl friend" then writes again (notice the caps)….
"He also didn't like the color the EX painted and commented that the work was poorly done (it was). I painted his bedroom myself."
She mentions it 3 times, and critize the ex's effort with "poorly done" and “hideous colors".
Any normal landlord would of referred to the "ex" like "his girl friend".
Who cares if they broke up or not? Is that piece of information really important here, or in court or even this damn BLOG?
Let Flora answer honestly.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 11:40 PM
It isn't in the gutter, as you call it, where I wouldn't put sex anyway. Sex does not equal gutter - sex is just sex.
But it is the weird emotional relationship they have, which is evident in her posts, as someone else noted, that suggests some, well, weird emotionally intense relationship. It could be any number of sorts of relationships. But when she says, "there's a lot more to this than I previously posted, it's looooooong" and "The issues are far too complicated to explain," well, that usually suggests one likely emotionally complicated scenario - granted, there could be others - but she's not saying.
Anyway, you wouldn't find me personally painting any tenant's bedroom, while the tenant lived there - especially when the crappy paint job was in the kitchen, and the "hideous deep colors" painted by the "Ex" were in the living room, I'd already told him he could paint, but then he bought paint, but didn't paint. You gotta admit, it is strange, strange for a landlord/tenant relationship.
Now she says she wants him to go, but can't quite tell him to, even though she's legally entitled to give him 30 days notice.
Posted by: guest at July 8, 2008 11:42 PM
This is a mission for Curtis Sliwa!
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 8, 2008 11:53 PM
I was thinking Ricki Lake...
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 12:12 AM
The woman is an artist- artists are strongly affected by color. It has nothing to do with who picked the color. I hate peach. I wouldn't care if my best friend picked it or my hated 4th grade teacher, I would still detest it.
"Any normal landlord would of referred to the "ex" like "his girl friend".
Who cares if they broke up or not? Is that piece of information really important here, or in court or even this damn BLOG?" You are joking, right? How the hell do you know how a "normal landlord" would have said this. are you the word usage police? FYI, typing "ex" is faster than typing "former girl-friend" every time - it's SHORTHAND. She was giving information about the tenant and the paint situation and who was responsible for what part of the problem.
"Anyway, you wouldn't find me personally painting any tenant's bedroom, while the tenant lived there - especially when the crappy paint job was in the kitchen, and the "hideous deep colors" painted by the "Ex" were in the living room,"
Why aren't you reading Flora's posts? the tenant wanted to paint his bedroom and asked her to help. She's an artist- she paints. She's his landlord. Hello?? And now she was trying to salvage the situation so she wouldn't have to go through the time, aggravation and expense of evicting him- if she could. The man is abusive, threatening and nasty. He rents in her house, where she also lives. You bet it's intense- it would be for anyone so again, what is the problem with you?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 9, 2008 12:24 AM
Bx did you make this whole thing up? If not back off!
What is it with you? Remember you don’t speak landlord so quit jumping up and down and shut your trap!
I'm a normal landlord and like many of us the lease is what matters not an "ex" girlfriend. That's bottom line.
Why is she hiding in her home from this man? Does he not know she has a heart condition? And he still yells at her and scares her to the point of writing to us for advice.
Dig up the old lease and read it. It's still in force as long as he still lives there. If not do what you have to do if you value your health because dude is there RIGHT NOW.
Call the police.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 1:13 AM
1:13- you're a normal landlord? Like hell- I have said nothing about the lease or anything else defending the tenant and if you weren't so stupid- too stupid to be a landlord obviously- you wouldn't be fighting with me on stuff I didn't say. I've been defending the landlord from the jerks who have tilted over into psychoanalyzing her and her imagined relationship with the tenant.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 9, 2008 8:24 AM
Thought I'd check back and see how if anything interesting and useful came up and I see that did not happen.
bxgrl at July 9, 2008 8:24 AM: Thank you for standing up for me, but don't waste your energy on these trolls. People (using the term loosely) who post this kind of nastiness anonymously on the internet are losers who have no power in real life so they get their yayas out getting all aggro on the net.
guest at July 8, 2008 5:57 PM: An affair with my tenant? Sleeping with a tenant? EW! Sleeping with a guy half my age? Double EW! Sleeping with this very unattractive jerk? Beyond Ew-y!!!
Perhaps you yourself sleep around with tenants, but I am not that kind of person. And yes, it is sexist to assume that a woman's problems with another person are based in some kind of girly romantic mess. This is a business relationship that went bad, read a newspaper, it happens all the time.
guest at July 8, 2008 6:33 PM: You just are way off the mark, surmising. conjecturing, and wrong.
guest at July 8, 2008 11:42 PM: More really bad amateur psychoanalysis, do keep your day job. My boyfriend and I painted his bedroom because that is the room he wanted painted. And I've told him 3 times now I want him to move out. Yesterday I wrote up the 30 day notice and am going to the P.O. to send it by certified mail today.
guest at July 8, 2008 11:40 PM: I'm not totally sure what you're ranting about. I typed ex because it's quicker than "former girlfriend" and capping both was just a typo. I actually like his ex, just not her taste in paint colors or her painting skills. Mentioning her is completely relevant because she was the co-tenant on the original lease.
guest at July 9, 2008 1:13 AM: Are you really a landlord? God I hope not because you are insane! I'm not "hiding in my home from this man" and I'm not afraid of him, I just have come to dislike him intensely and avoid talking to him because he's a raging a-hole. The only reason I wrote to this forum is because didn't know whether or not it was legal for a tenant to deduct a purchase from his lease. Instead of an answer, I get all this loony conjecturing from trolls, sheesh.
Repeat, he doesn't scare me, it's just that I really really don't like him and will not put up with anyone yelling at me, ever. Yeah, I have a heart condition, he knows about it, so what? He doesn't give a crap and although I'd rather avoid the stress of an eviction, I'm ready to do it and called an L/T attorney this morning. Oh, and I didn't need to "dig up his lease", I do this thing called keeping organized files. So stop with all this conjecturing, you don't know what you're talking about.
Posted by: flora at July 9, 2008 9:47 AM
Bx, the more you rant the more I think you are Flora? I never said you mentioned lease or defended the tenant. I do have several buildings packed with happy tenants so dont talk out of your ass.
Again I think mentioning "girlfriend" or "ex" several times is good reason to ask if there was an intimate relationship.
The fact is the bad paint job happened under his tenancy. It doesnt really matter who painted. The lease holder is responsible.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 10:22 AM
ok thanks for your answer. Im 10:22 aswell and I take it back. good luck
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 10:26 AM
I dunno. Flora sounds an awful lot like Biff to me. Just sayin.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 12:52 PM
"Again I think mentioning "girlfriend" or "ex" several times is good reason to ask if there was an intimate relationship."
No, it isn't. Making weird and insulting accusations that have no basis in reality like the one above is just plain trollish. And sexist, regardless of your gender.
"The fact is the bad paint job happened under his tenancy. It doesn't really matter who painted. The lease holder is responsible."
True.
Posted by: flora at July 9, 2008 12:54 PM
agreed 12:52. But I'll play along.
The weird and insulting accusations are a figment of your imagination. Not one person insulted you here. A simple question was asked and you answered. Don't jump on the "sexist" bandwagon.
If you would of originally wrote my boyfriend and I repainted the apt.. no one would of asked if you had an affair with the tenant. Blame yourself for the confusion because you did in fact mention this guy's "EX" 3 times for reasons still unknown to me. And at the end they were both on the lease and you used the same "typing fast" excuse that Bx conjured up.
Whatever.
Do you think if your boyfriend did a lousy paint job and this crazy tenant was standing in front of a judge he would say "her boyfriend painted the apt"?? Hell no.
He would say the landlord painted it with a straight face!
The judge would ask you to confirm ,and you would say" my boyfriend painted it" he would probably throw the gavel at you. and tenate would take his sweet time to leave without giving you a dime.
I didn't mean to offend any women on this thread I have little girl myself. I would probably lose it if a tenant yelled at her. I might just grab the guy by the neck a force fed him paint soup.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:13 PM
Flora,
Your tenant is an asshole. Do you really need to deal with this crap given your medical condition? Get your lawyer to inform this f*cktard that the rent is going up 500 bucks a month as of 8/1 and that he can either pay or get out. If you have to, evict him. Just get this idiot out of your house asap.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:38 PM
guest at July 9, 2008 3:13 PM: It is insulting, even if I was single, no one had any reason to think I was involved with the tenant. Except maybe a person who has a low opinion of women in general.
"If you would of originally wrote my boyfriend and I repainted the apt."
Is the problem here that you can't read? We didn't repaint the apartment, we repainted his bedroom and we have both worked as housepainters so I do not know what you're ranting about judges throwing gavels.
Current tenant and his ex were both on the lease, my mentioning her does not have any of the hidden meanings your vivid imagination is conjuring up, I do take typing shortcuts & yer jst actng lk a jrk.
guest at July 9, 2008 3:38 PM: Agreed, with or without a medical condition I wouldn't put up with anyone who acted this way. I have already sent him a notice that his rent is going up August 1st, he refused the certified letter. Today I went to the P.O to send a 30 day notice by certified mail and tenant was at the clerks window ranting about renting a P.O. box because his landlady reads his mail. I think he's bipolar or something, but I don't care, I just want him out. Anyone recommend a good L/T attorney?
Posted by: flora at July 9, 2008 4:54 PM
"Is the problem here that you can't read?"
Oh now your being petty, like it really matters if I wrote apartment instead of bedroom.
I need to learn to read?
Did you already forget that you told us:
"I do have a good lawyer, don't feel that it's quite come to that point yet, but if the tenant doesn't calm down and pay his rent, I'll let the lawyer handle it."
Hello that "point" is here Right now. Stop playing victim on Brownstoner and handle your business.
If this posts is real, That dude will be there for free until November.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 6:06 PM
Another example of why it is best, when possible, to not live as a tenant in an owner occupied (or absentee owner)brownstone. While I like the charm of the buildings, as I get older I have less and less patience for the craziness of the unprofessional, cheapass, lazy, non-law-abiding landlords who don't get that being a landlord is a business, and that the relationship is governed by contract (the lease) and the law.
I'm glad to be past that, and, I hope, never again....
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 6:30 PM
guest at July 9, 2008 6:06 PM: You just love to nitpick, don't you? You must be really fun to live with. Yes, I have a lawyer who was referred by a friend, but I'm open to other recommendations. Do you hire the first person you talk to?
guest at July 9, 2008 6:30 PM
"craziness of the unprofessional, cheapass, lazy, non-law-abiding landlords who don't get that being a landlord is a business"
Oh yes, and I'll bet you're a delight as a tenant too.You have no idea what you're talking about, you don't know me, you don't know my building.
Posted by: flora at July 9, 2008 8:00 PM
Nitpick? HA!! Stop sniffing paint lady. You've lost it.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 8:33 PM
"Today I went to the P.O to send a 30 day notice by certified mail and tenant was at the clerks window ranting about renting a P.O. box because his landlady reads his mail."
Jeez Flora... Get him out ASAP. He's sounding more and more like a nutjob in the making.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 8:57 PM
Which tree did you shake to get this peach?
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 9, 2008 9:45 PM
Which tree did you shake to get this peach?
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 9, 2008 9:45 PM
Wow, I am shocked by some of the people who post comments on this site. The situation went from a simple landlord/tenant dispute to a torrid sexual affair!
Flora, I'm impressed that you took the time to answer each weirdo individually. Good luck with your situation. I think you are doing the right thing by raising his rent so he leaves.
Posted by: seahag21 at July 10, 2008 12:45 AM
Hi Flora,
I'm a bit surprised and uncertain as to why you've chosen to waste time (and your sanity) responding to the nonsense in this blog. Many of the posts appear to originate from a bored and/or belligerent younger crowd. In any case, you'd do best to take the responses with a grain of salt, and pay attention only to those that offer productive suggestions and sound advice.
It seems as if your tenant is legitimately mentally unstable - to what extent, I'm not sure.
Here are my two cents:
1) You could consider the $220 and paint job a loss (and lesson) and appear as appeased and non-confrontational as possible, until your tenant becomes less irate. If this is successful, tell him that family members will be moving in when you undergo your next operation. (This is a good, neutral and unarguable reason to vacate a premises, as long as the required notice is given). Or you could offer some other health-related reason that would be legitimate in his eyes.
2) Go the other route - send him a letter addressed from a lawyer. There is always a possibility that he is 'playing chicken', and will change his attitude when he sees that you are serious about taking him to court.
Posted by: andrea43 at July 10, 2008 2:04 AM
Housing court decisions don't scare tenants.
Ny is pro tenant and the judge will give 6 months for the tenant to vacate.
What is worse after the time is up tenant can appeal the decision in another court,
You can be out close to a years worth of rent.
Another bad scenario is the tenant can file a bankrupcy with no lawyer required on his part. On top of the appeal.
Bankrupcy automatically stops creditors including landlords dead in their tracks.
In ny it is scary to take tenants with no credit or background check.
So many bad laws for everybody in ny.
Creativity seems to be king involving legal matters here.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 10, 2008 10:31 AM
Does anyone else think that Flora and her tenant deserve each other?
Posted by: guest at July 10, 2008 4:41 PM
I'm having a similar problem but in my case, the tenant's father co-signed the lease. The apartment is in Brooklyn, the co-signer is in Philadelphia. Should I send a rent bill to daddy?
Posted by: guest at July 10, 2008 5:08 PM
Let me correct myself, the tenant's father signed a guaranty of lease. Can I send a bill for the unpaid rent to the father? Anyone ever dealt with this?
Posted by: guest at July 10, 2008 6:27 PM
To guest 6:27pm
I think if push comes to shove the guarantor is responsable to pay if you desire to take him to court to collect unpaid rent.
The purpose of the guarantor is legally to guarantee payment if the tenant defaults.
In other words the tenant has no credit or bad credit which is why there is a guarantor.
It doesn't matter where the guarantor is. The law still applies.
Posted by: Ysabelle at July 10, 2008 7:42 PM
Sure you can - read the guarantee - it says so! (That was the whole point of getting the guarantee, no? Use it now - don't wait.)
But if by similiar problem, you mean you are arguing about stupid stuff like painting the apartment, or reimbursing for stuff that you led the tenant to believe you'd cover, then the practical advice would be to fix the problem first - going to daddy won't fix your communication with the tenant.
Posted by: guest at July 11, 2008 2:00 PM
Sometimes tenants wihthold rent (whether legally entiled to or not) to induce the landlord to act to fix something - it's the only leverage they've got. And if the landlord needs the money (like to pay the mortgage) it can be a quicker and easier way to get repairs, though potentially risky.
I had to threaten it once - be uncharacteristcally late with the rent - in order to get the landlord to focus on the fact that my bathroom ceiling was moldy and caving in and dangerous due to water damage. Letting him know weeks earlier about the problem didn't get his attention - not getting his rent check on the 1st the following month had a way of focusing his attention and getting him (absentee landlord) to get someone in to fix it, once I explained I'd be happy to resume paying promptly once he did that. I wouldn't do it for small stuff though - but I was pretty sure I was within my rights given the scope of the problem and various dangers (mold, ceiling falling on me in the shower.) I knew it wouldn't come to court stuff though - he knew I'd pay if he focused and met his responsibilities (I always paid on time), and that if I didn't, I had a legitimate complaint that he needed to focus on. Worked quited well.
Posted by: guest at July 11, 2008 2:09 PM
2:09- you're lucky it worked because legally you are still not entitled to withhold rent without going to court first. Had he taken you to court it could have resulted in the court deciding against you and even allowing him to evict you. It happened to a friend of mine who took it upon herself to act without getting court permission and it backfired, badly.
But in your case it sounds like your landlord probably has a lot of trouble on his hands with other tenants (if your apartment was allowed to get so bad, there must have been others, right?) and probably figured the smart thing to do was fix the problem before it went to court. Good for you though- I'm glad it worked out.
Posted by: also guest at July 12, 2008 10:35 AM
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