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July 16, 2008
Security Deposit - no lease!
Hello,
My boyfriend and I have moved out of our apartment of 4 years for better digs. Our old landlord is telling us now that we cannot have our security deposit back because we failed to give 30 days notice (we gave about 20), "per our lease." My problem with that is we haven't been on a lease in over a year. The last time they offered us one we asked not to sign it as we were actively looking for a new place. That obviously didn't happen as quickly as we thought it would.
Do I have any claim on the deposit or not?
Comments
yikes, sorry for the double post. my internet connection is wacky.
Posted by: carafe at July 16, 2008 1:14 PM
In NY, when you go without a lease, you have created what is called a 'month to month tenancy.' This basically means that with 30 days notice, either you or your landlord can choose to end your tenancy. You are obligated to give him at least 30 days notice.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at July 16, 2008 1:18 PM
I am not certain on the exact legalities but a polite reminder that you are still in possession of the apartment and unless he wants you disposing of 3 bags of cement down all the drains he may want to reconsider. You could also mention that this is a renters town. If you have to take him to court it will be much cheaper for him to just give you your deposit. You really are holding all the cards.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at July 16, 2008 3:59 PM
Don't pour cement down his drains or any other petty thing because he can certainly sue you or destroy your credit if you choose to do so. You didn't give him 30 days notice as a month-to-month tenant, as required by New York law. Check the "Renter's Rights" page on the Secretary of State's website for more info. Sorry, but you're going to have to eat the deposit on this one.
Posted by: Florence Castleberry at July 16, 2008 8:44 PM
You have full right to the security deposit.
True, you technically did not follow the proper procedure for giving notice on a month to month lease. Proper notice would have been registered mail announcing your intent to vacate the apartment a full billing cycle (not one month as stated above; a full month in the case of month-to-month plus whatever remainder of the month in the current billing cycle).
But this is not an issue of notice, and the court will not see it that way either. It is an issue only of security deposit. If you told your landlord you were leaving and he raised no objection at the time, he has no right to claim the security deposit.
All he is doing is bluffing, since he holds the money. Bluff back. Get your lawyer to write a letter for you or if you have none that will do that as a favor, write a three sentence letter demanding the deposit or you will "seek the return of your money by any legal means plus all the relief the Court will allow." That's code for going after damages. Capitalize the word Court, it looks good.
If the letter produces no results then go down to Small Claims and pony up the $50 for the case. You will win this one hands down. As Brooklyn Fire Alarm Guy says, it's a renter's town.
Posted by: Smokychimp at July 16, 2008 11:52 PM
I stand corrected. After checking again the Sec of State's renters rights guide, turns out only withholding a security deposit for damages to the apartment or back rent is permissible under the current law. So, now I'm sorta peeved, too, and I hope you point out the law to your landlord and get your deposit back, with interest.
Posted by: Florence Castleberry at July 17, 2008 9:45 AM
I think it's important to keep in mind that there is a difference between what's right and what could happen.
Your landlord is being a douche, but frankly, so are you. For future reference, thirty days is the right thing to do.
This does not give him the legal right to your security deposit. He is bluffing. Here's what I would do:
Find the renter's rights guide on the internet, photocopy and highlight the paragraph Florence is referring to.
Include this page in a polite letter that:
1. apologizes for the twenty days notice thing.
2. reminds your landlord that he can't withhold your security deposit because of it
3. asks if there is something else you can do to make amends, like pay for a professional cleaning. (this is usually about $100-$150)
I know that this approach will make a lot of people on this board chafe because you will kind of be capitulating. But in my experience, this scenario, in which both parties are kind of wrong and there is no clear set of expectations, is potentially nuclear. Both parties have the potential to get totally aggrieved and emotional, and stop thinking clearly. You don't want to go to housing court or otherwise lose sleep over this, and you **definitely** don't want to forfeit your security deposit, which is surely much much more than $150.
In this scenario, I think it's most sensible to think win-win, and short-circuit landlord's sense of being wronged by fessing up and offering a more reasonable fix.
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 17, 2008 11:13 AM
I agree with vanburenproud that truly 30 days is the correct amount of time to give notice to a landlord (admittedly, I'm a landlord now, but spent many many many years as a tenant.) The landlord really needs time to find another tenant. However it is also very true that security deposits are ONLY for potential damages to the apartment.
What I would do (and this shows how nerdy I am) is in writing ask for 2/3 of your security deposit back. That way your landlord in a way gets his/her extra 10 days of potentially lost rent, and you still get most of your deposit back. If they refuse, then you can show in court that you tried your best to be reasonable.
Good luck...
Posted by: avecarrillo at July 19, 2008 9:58 AM
Security deposits are not only for potential damage, but for unpaid rent. Couldn't the landlord keep the deposit by saying he lost a months rent because the proper 30 day notice wasn't given?
Telling people to pour cement down drains is really beyond bad advice, that wouldn't only be a civil matter, it would also be criminal damage to real property, which could mean jail time.
Posted by: burger at July 26, 2008 10:27 PM
Can someone please post a link to the renter's guide that Florence refers to above? Sadly, giving short notice is sometimes unavoidable - I was month to month and had to give 15 days. My landlord isn't happy, actually, he's never happy, but has been steadily showing the apartment along with a multitude of brokers. Problem is this: the market sucks and my landlord is listing the apartment at a ridiculous amount. He just said to be out a couple days before the end of the month and didn't threaten to take the deposit. Regardless, no way will it rent, no way, in which case, will he come after my deposit as a fallback? Seems likely. Or he could trump up what he considers "wear and tear". No?
And, to further my question, if the deposit is only for damages or unpaid rent and not for my lack of notice, how does he collect?
Posted by: hotelcharliebravo at July 29, 2008 6:37 PM
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