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July 18, 2008
Painting the woodwork - is it a crime?
We're moving to a house in an historic district with pristine woodwork. Never been painted. Our aesthetic preference is to paint it all. Or most of it. And yet, we're wondering if this is a crime against craftsmanship? So we're willing to listen to what you all have to say. Sorry to be vague on the details!
Comments
Absolutely not a crime. If anything, some peoples desire to strip every piece of organic material in the house is a crime and results in their homes looking like the inside of a coffin!!
If the woodwork is historically significant or the home is so grand that it warrants wood everywhere, I can see leaving it unpainted. But much of the woodwork in older homes was meant to be painted and looks better that way!
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at July 18, 2008 9:42 AM
What's the year and style of your house? If it's Colonial Revival I might give you a free pass. If it's a Victorian rowhouse, anything say pre-1910, don't do it. It will hurt your resale value, and that wood underneath will never be the same again.
What don't you like about this wood? Sometimes these old woods still have heavy original varnish on them which makes them overpoweringly dark. Maybe you could compromise by just having the wood refinished so it looks warmer and you see more grain (if the grain is attractive).
Posted by: StuyMom at July 18, 2008 9:48 AM
If the wood have never been painted - it most likely was not meant to be painted....
Alot of homes will have pine that people strip and it looks quite nice but this type of wood most likely was meant to be covered .... If your home is full of ornate oak that has never been painted - I would have to agree with Stuymom and say don't do it - or got for the compromise and try to lighten it...
Posted by: katiem633 at July 18, 2008 9:53 AM
Have a friend who uncovered beautiful carved wood columns and other woodwork, very dark. She took denatured alcohol and cleaned off the old varnish. the difference was amazing.
I confess to painting woodwork myself, but only if the wood had already been painted, or as Mrs. Limestone says, was the kind always intended to be painted. But if it's beautiful pristine woodwork, think about having it refinished to lighten the color- the natural grain is beautiful, and the surface of old wood, like on banisters and handrails, is lovely.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 18, 2008 9:59 AM
How about posting a photo?
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 18, 2008 10:02 AM
Can't believe that the woodwork was meant to be painted, if it never has been. If it were my house, I wouldn't do it.
Posted by: BrooklynButler at July 18, 2008 10:07 AM
Dave - let me see if I can find something similar. we want to make an offer on the place, regardless, but I'm wary of posting a picture of somoene else's home on the off (!) chance that they read Brownstoner and decided they don't want to sell to the philistines who are considering painting their treasured woodwork. :-)
Posted by: brooklyny at July 18, 2008 10:08 AM
doh. ok. I outed myself. we've made an offer. damn. ugh. ok. I'm going to look for pictures. sorry. this is all nervewracking.
Posted by: brooklyny at July 18, 2008 10:10 AM
Speaking as a woodworker and someone who spent five years stripping (and in many cases replicating and replacing) the oak trim here that had been obscured by paint, yes, I personally think it's a crime to paint vintage woodwork.
Hit the old house forums and read the comments from people who are restoring their old homes and the epithets they reserve for the POs (Previous Owners, except sometimes they capitalize the 's') who originally painted their old-growth woodwork.
It's your house, of course. But particularly if your house is in a historic district you could take a shot in resale value from potential buyers looking for a vintage old home.
Posted by: Steve at July 18, 2008 10:33 AM
I think it's a crime and the punishment should be stripping an entire house full of woodwork. I agree with Steve. If you've ever spent time (lots of it) stripping and restoring this stuff, you would know why we say that. And I'm not a woodworker! Just someone who buys homes and furniture others have tampered with.
By the way, Brooklyny, I'm stripping the wainscoting in my living room today if you would like to come over and start your community service. I'll buy lunch.
Posted by: rh at July 18, 2008 10:49 AM
Not quite a crime IMO, but certainly an offense. It's your house, so you can do whatever you want to the interior, but consider that you might eventually be sorry you painted the woodwork and it's a major PITA and expense to strip it. You could lighten up the place w/o painting the woodwork with a careful choice of paint colors on the walls and ceilings.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 18, 2008 11:13 AM
Having helped my friend strip some of her other woodwork of paint I can say it is a fate that should be relegated to one of the circles of Hell. But Bob is right- the wall and ceiling colors will help mitigate the dark wood and the contrast could be very beautiful.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 18, 2008 11:21 AM
I have spent the last 6 months stripping a parlor full of hundred-year-old fretwork, fluted columns and mantels of a half dozen layers of paint. Turquoise! I hit a layer of turquoise! Between the toxic strippers and the lead paint, I have taken untold years off of my life. Countless times I have cursed previous owners under my breath while using a dental pick to get paint out of a beautifully hand-carved bit of detail. And I'm still only on the parlor!
For the love of god, do not paint the woodwork. Restore the wood, lighten it by all means, but don't paint it. It will hurt your resale and produce untold suffering for future owners.
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at July 18, 2008 11:42 AM
Hey sorry but I beg to differ: painting good woodwork is a CRIME to carpentry and good craftmanship:) My dad always had a mini MI when someone painted his woodwork because it really hides some of the skill that was put into the work.
Hey Ms Limestoner while I liked your renovation I have to disagree with your statement that woodwork was meant to be painted. Where did ya read that my dear limey?
Bob I am completely with you on this one. Tried stripping a bannister once and it was so tough we had to give up and add another layer of paint...Merde!
Posted by: pierre de taille at July 18, 2008 11:49 AM
I'm interested in restoring our original woodwork. It was actually one of the reasons we bought the house, figuring that all that dark paint could come off and be really beautiful.
I have a question though. Our tenants upstairs have drilled some crude shelves into the original (currently painted) molding of an unused doorway. Once I get them to remove this, how do we restore that molding? Will wood putty show badly on refinished woodwork?
Posted by: corolla at July 18, 2008 11:50 AM
Corolla, what I usually do is refinish the trim, with stain and finish. Before the last coat of sealer I add non-hardening wood putty. Sometimes you luck out and find an acceptably-concealing color. If not, pick up a small artists paint kit with some oil paint. Mix the color to match and dab it on. Then add a final coat of clear sealer.
If the damage is too great, I mill a replacement piece. I've got a pretty decent shop here so I tend to do more milling than I probably should.
Posted by: Steve at July 18, 2008 12:05 PM
As one who has stripped the wordwork in my house, I'd say painting it is a crime.
Posted by: MOSHE at July 18, 2008 12:49 PM
As one who has stripped the woodwork in my house, I'd say painting it is a crime.
Posted by: MOSHE at July 18, 2008 12:49 PM
Among my collection of 100+ year old books on millwork and joinery is the "Universal Design Book" which is basically a catalog of doors, windows, stair parts, and moldings. Kind of like a hundred year old dyke's catalog with prices that are about 200 times less than today. Painted was an option for most items, for example the catalog offers:
Spruce, Whitewood, Linden and Yellow Pine painted in enamels- .24
" Enameled, rubbed between coats- .38
Quartered Oak and Quartered Sycamore (varnished)- .24
Red Mahogany, Curly Birch, Bird's Eye and White Maple- .38
Painted was always an option on woodwork. Modern paints will not look as good as the original paint used due to the lack of heavy metals and other bad things. But you can come close with a high quality oil (fine paints of europe).
Posted by: southslope at July 18, 2008 1:52 PM
Please, in the name of all of us who have sweated and slaved to get decades of bad paint jobs off beautiful hardwood, DON'T paint the woodwork! Poplar and fir, OK, but not oak, maple or mahogany.
Corolla: I like the putty sticks that look like crayons. You should be able to buy a selection for $15 and find a good match. One tip is to use a slightly darker tone than the surrounding wood. Just rub the sticks over the holes until they're filled, and wipe off any excess with a paper towel moistened with mineral spirits.
Posted by: Bolder at July 18, 2008 1:58 PM
While we're on the topic, can anyone recommend someone who could refinish or replace the painted or otherwise damaged woodwork in my brownstone? Most of it was never painted, but some of the windows/sills were and I would like to restore them. I am not a talented DIY person so I will not take the risk of messing it up myself; I would much rather hire someone competent and experienced.
Posted by: geekspice at July 18, 2008 3:20 PM
As one who's painted most of the trim (admittedly replacement stuff) and now enjoy the added lightness of the room, I say dark wood is a crime, light wood may be ok but is better only if it's something exotic (and is prefect.)
Posted by: cmu at July 18, 2008 4:24 PM
i definitely agree with CMU. all that dark wood makes it look as if you live in some dickensian coffin. nicely painted woodwork is beautiful: it lightens up a brownstone, making it look fresh and airy instead of overpowering and dark. you can do beautiful things with paint; who wants to live in a morgue? 'fundamentalist brownstoners'--those who don't believe anything 'original' can be changed--make no more sense than any kind of fundamentalist.
Posted by: chelseagirl at July 18, 2008 4:53 PM
Ultimately its your house and you have o be happy in it, but I so hate to see beautiful carving and millwork covered in paint.half the beauty is the flow and change of the grain and if its simply that you want lighter color, consider removing the varnish and maybe bleaching. Steve could probably best answer if that's a good option or not, and what kind of wood it works best on. and varnish can darken drastically over time, so sometimes the dark color you see may be a result of that.
My friend's house is a mix of woods with the divider and columns, and pier mirror frame a mahogany, but fireplaces are a medium oak and my living room fireplace is a light colored nearly grainless wood which I think might be maple??? Dark wood can limit your design choices sometimes, but it is so rich looking.
Good luck, whatever you decide but don't forget to post pictures!
Posted by: bxgrl at July 18, 2008 6:37 PM
Yeah, I think alot has to do with the type of wood, which you have not mentioned. Softwoods, like pine and poplar, were made to be painted. Hardwoods, like oak and mahogany, would be a crime to paint. (altho I'm agnostic on maple, it's a hardwood but a boring hardwood). By all means, strip the old varnish off hardwood and lighten it up, but painting it will be a crime, and will likely cost you money at resale.
Posted by: denton at July 18, 2008 7:48 PM
When I first became aware of the amazing woodwork that can be in brownstones, I was definitely in the school of thought that said strip every stick of wood, and don't paint anything. I've since modified my position slightly.
One of the houses on our Crown Heights house tour last year had some of the most amazing fretwook and woodwork I've ever seen. The homeowner stripped and restored the very elaborate entryway, hall, front and middle parlours. The wood is a warm, golden oak. But in the back parlour, which is her dining room, she painted the woodwork white, and the walls were a very pretty blue. The white woodwork was a really nice contrast, and the blue paint made it pop. Her antique wood dining room set brought wood tones into the room, and it worked really nicely. I don't think it would have been as nice with another woodworked room.
Long story long, I think the most ornate woodwork, and best woods - mahagonny, cherry, golden oak, etc should not be painted, especially if already natural. But I have no problem with some well thought out variety. If you do paint pristine wood, (it still hurts!) please put a coat of water based varnish between the wood and the paint, to prevent your paint from soaking into the wood grain, thereby making a future stripping job even more difficult.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 19, 2008 11:41 AM
Southslope is right that painted woodwork WAS done in period homes, especially after 1900. Dark woodwork was highly unfashionable in Edwardian homes. I have a book by the first widely famous modern interior designer, who emerged in the Edwardian era, Elsie de Wolfe and she is absolutely SCATHING about dark woodwork and the Victorian look in general. After the Victorian era was finished people back then were thinking, okay moving on, let's lighten up a little.
However, despite my love of painted woodwork I would not paint stained woodwork that's detailed and special and in perfect condition.
You could do mixed painted and stained woodwork. We have that in our home, and I've seen it in professionally designed brownstone interiors too. It does not have to be all one or the other. There is no rule about that. You can absolutely mix them. Leave the carved wood stained, such as on the stair banisters or the fireplace, and things like moldings and baseboards you can paint.
Posted by: traditionalmod at July 20, 2008 11:54 AM
Do Not Paint Vintage Wood Paneling!
Posted by: James Patience at July 21, 2008 3:14 PM
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