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July 9, 2008
Leaving Brooklyn For The Burbs
After 10 years we are leaving Brooklyn for the suburbs. The primary reason is a desire for consistently decent public schools for our 2 kids. Other reasons are the typical ones you hear - more space, a yard, etc.
Despite our rationale for moving I find myself deeply saddened about leaving and am worried that I will have a hard time adjusting to suburban life.
What have been the experiences of others who have blazed the suburban trail before me? How long did it take to adjust (if ever)? Were your reasons for leaving ultimately justified? What do you miss most about Brooklyn?
Comments
I read a discussion about this recently on maplewoodonline.com check it out.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 10:54 AM
ever thought about moving to suburban parts of brooklyn or queens, very nice areas. safe to boot and good public schools still have best of both worlds.
try midwood, bensonhurst, gravesend, dyker heights, marine park, astoria, sunny side, forest hill, forest hill gardens, rego park etc.....
Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 9, 2008 10:56 AM
We moved from Park Slope to New Jersey about 7 year ago. We made the move with two couples (all of us within the span of about 6 months) who we are very close with, and all of us basically moved for the same reasons you mentioned. Better schools, more space, etc.
In the end, we ended up moving back to Brooklyn about 2 years ago.
Both of our couple friends have also moved back. We did not find the schools as good in terms of parent involvement and general vibrancy of some of the better schools in Brooklyn and we felt quite isolated.
Our daughter had a more difficult time making friends, and generally seemed more depressed.
Things are not perfect in Brooklyn, but for us, it is the right place to be.
When we were weighing the options of whether we could afford to move back to Brooklyn, we took into account the huge taxes in New Jersey, along with the approximately 500 per month we spent on each car. Our transportation costs have gone from 1000 per month (2 car payments, insurance and gas) to 81 each (unlimited metro card) per month. And that was before the huge run up in gas prices.
There are some ok neighborhoods in NJ, but none of them compare with the diversity and culture one gets just from going out your doorstep in many areas of Brooklyn.
We have a smaller space, but a more fullfilled life.
My wife is thrilled to be back. She hated it out there. The whole move was more my idea.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 10:58 AM
Lived in Brooklyn 1992-1999
Moved to Teaneck in 1999.
Moved to Park Slope in 2002.
I feel like those three years in NJ were lost.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:02 AM
Wow - OP this can hardly be encouraging. If I were to move out of Brooklyn, I would go to a town like Hastings on the Hudson that has a village feel. You can live in the actual village and walk everywhere...
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:14 AM
Moving from one of the greatest urban societies in the free world to a life bound by the automobile, in this day and age seems like a false economy.
Keep in mind that once your kids are out of public schools in NJ, you'll still be paying 20K a year (and going up) taxes to support a system you no longer use. Food for thought. Having grown up in NJ, I can hardly say I'd recommend it, but everyone is different. I did hear my teenage son say to me for the first time last week..."Dad...thank you for not making us grow up in New Jersey" (that was after we went out to visit my sisters who still live out there)
Made life (struggles and all) in Brooklyn all seem worth it.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:46 AM
The person who said to move to queens for the right balance had it right.
Have you seen the news? Do you really think schools in suburbs are now or will be better in the future? In both areas they are plagued by budget problems. NJ is bankrupt and you can't possibly raise the taxes any higher on Long Island. Both areas are suffering from increased crime, over crowding, and racial tension with the explosion of latino immigrants. I just saw on the news last night that some NJ town wants to force landlords to check for green cards before renting to tenants. We've all seen local school board members jailed for embezelment (sp?). I also seem to see just as many reports of teacher/student affair scandals from L.I. as from here in brooklyn.
It ain't candyland out there. It's just harder to walk to the corner for a carton of milk.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:56 AM
We moved to the burbs (CT) when my daughter was 3 and my son a newborn and we lasted a year. Had we stuck it out, I have no doubt that I would have adjusted by now (ten years later), but at the time I really couldn't stand it. This time of year (miserable hot summer) in Brooklyn is awful and it's so tempting to move to more bucolic areas, but there is a price to pay. Based on my experience, if you give yourself three years before you reconsider, you should be fine. Also, I think it helps if you're older. We moved at 32--really too young for the suburbs. Now, when I need to spend less time in cafes, evenings out, etc., I could probably handle it.
Good luck
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 12:08 PM
You should read the article on the studies that show that in 15-20 years time, the farther suburbs will become ghettos, much like many urban cities did decades ago.
It would appear that we are in a pattern of reverse suburban flight, and it seems to be headed for a period of intensification as gas prices rise, foreclosures increasing in suburban cookie cutter neighborhoods, school budgets getting slashed and the general malaise seen across the board in America's suburban population right now.
I hear about fewer and fewer people who move to the suburbs because the number one reason is because they WANT to. 9 times out of 10, it seems to be because they HAVE to for economic reasons.
So that means that inherently, the suburbs are less desirable than cities.
That makes them already on their way to having more possibilities for neglect and possible hard times.
Things have changed in the last 5-10 years. Cities have become more expensive than the suburbs for the first time in almost 50 years.
This shift back to the urban core is essential for this country to survive.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 12:16 PM
If you want opinions from people who actually made the move and like it, you should ask on a suburban forum - not one dedicated to real estate in Brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 12:28 PM
I never get the arguments people make about better schools. Didn't you people go to schol? The people who got a decent education got it because they or their parents forced them to do the work: to study and complete the homework. It's rarely about the curriculum or the teachers.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 12:35 PM
I still haven't totally adjusted to moving from lower Manhattan to Bay Ridge and that was nine years ago.
For instance, my brain is still wired to think of numbered streets as incrementing north-wise and "downtown" as being, well, down.
Posted by: Steve at July 9, 2008 12:55 PM
I know its not what you want to hear but DON'T DO IT. Well, that's the way I feel about it. Both my wife and I grew up in the suburbs, and she looks longingly at it when we go out there, but I'd never move there permanently. Seems like a prescription for depression/alchoholism. That said, there is a real estate company in Montclair I think that rents busses to bring people out from Park Slope to look at houses. You may do better with public schools if you live in a great town, but you'll be paying the taxes for it. My advice would be this: if you have friends and/or family out there and a reason to be in one suburb rather than just "get me out of New York," go for it. If not, you may find it ain't as great as it seems when you live in the city.
Posted by: slopenick at July 9, 2008 1:27 PM
One of my neighbors moved to Matawan three years ago for these same reasons: kids, yard, privacy. Another neighbor kept in touch with them and said they regretted it. They're paying an add'l thousand/month in taxes, the fuel, car upkeep and commuting overhead are killing them and they still come into the city for dining and entertainment when they can afford it.
Posted by: Steve at July 9, 2008 2:08 PM
After 20+ years in brownstone brooklyn (me) we'll be moving to West Orange, NJ in August.
Honestly the move is driven purely by economics. As a middle class family of 4(160HHI) we're struggeling. Pre-School tuition and childcare eat up about 40% of take home pay, mortgage and utilites another 40%, leaving us very little to live on.
Paying the high "burb" taxes is still a quarter of the private school tuition facing us.
We chose West Orange right on the border of South Orange, because it's diverse, artsy, has a great community feeling, is a closer commute than where we are right now, has a good public school system, and most importantly you can get a nice house for 400K. It took us over a year to make this decision, but I think it's the right one for our family.
If we could afford a 3 bed apartment, lived in a good school district or private tuition was not an issue we would absolutely stay.
Am I melonchaly a bit, absolutely. But we can always come back and visit.
Posted by: kdabrowski at July 9, 2008 3:23 PM
For New York families with 2+ kids and aspirations in either schooling or neighborhood, the suburbs have been cheaper since at least the 1950s. If family-sized real estate doesn't get you, the private school tuitions will.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:42 PM
Not all schools in the suburbs are good and very few are great...especially given the fact that you do not have choice as we do here in Brooklyn. To be in a great school district will cost you in taxes. I grew up in the burbs and have many friends who remain there and most are jealous of my kids public school education. I am very happy with my choice to remain in Brooklyn and keep my kids in public schools.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:14 PM
I grew up in Jersey and hate my parents for it.
It was not a fun are to grow up knowing that all the fruits of the city were so close, yet so far.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:28 PM
its such a damn shame that these inner city screaming animal kids hold our children's future hostage because of their dysfunctional upbringing. all the gentrification in the world unfortunately cannot drive out the scum that infests the public city schools. sure, there are exceptions to this, but just ask a few teachers what a public school is like in new york city. crime, underachievment, parents who cannot provide proper guidance, lack of nutrition and manners for their children to move up in the world. a total conundrum. people who try and achieve in this world yet again get punished by the leeching scum from the hood who poison this great city. i just assume build some projects in the middle of Area 51, put up a chinese take out, 99 cent store, check cashing place and a clinic and the inhabiants won't know the difference from Nevada to Brooklyn, as long as their flat screen has Direct TV hooked up. It's like that!
also, take all gang members and send them to siberia. they can be all bad and macho in the land of the bear
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 8:43 PM
8:43- it's clear you love being a ranting raving venting jerk but could you do it on whatever your favorite neo-nazi white supremacist web site is instead of here? Thanks- take the white sheets with you too. And the trailer with the wife, the spawn and the hound dawg. Oh- and the cookbook with all the fried squirrel recipes.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:46 PM
8:43 lives in new jersey.
Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:51 PM
Op, 8:43 is your reason for staying. Who the hell wants this person for neighbor?
Remember trash is stored outside of the city.
Posted by: guest at July 10, 2008 1:36 AM
Hmm - not to mention that with the current baby boom happening in the city, and families choosing to stay the competition for public schools in the city is going to increase dramatically. This should cause the quality of many schools to increase, as well as, other great charter schools to open up.
If you look at what is happening to NYC schools now, you'll easily see that the public school eduction in the city is going to be much greater than anything you'll find in suburbia.
Posted by: Sneaky Pete at July 10, 2008 12:25 PM
just curious about all the peoplo who refuted 8:43. do you send your kids to a nyc public school? be truthful, and not so limosine liberal about it.
Posted by: guest at July 10, 2008 3:28 PM
you don't have to send your kid to public school in order to recognize pure, unadulterated racism. And yes, I went to public school. And so did the rest of the family.
Posted by: guest at July 10, 2008 7:39 PM
I have had many friends and relatives move to Montclair, NJ and they really like it over there. It is really pretty. The kids don't interact much with other kids in a spontaneous, meet up at the playground kind of way. And even though it is considered a diverse and open minded place in terms of family makeup, etc....it is not nearly what I would consider a diverse place at all. There are minorities living there. But it is not as integrated as Brooklyn. I keep visiting and wondering if I would appreciate it for what it is, or if I just like it because it has a lot of things that Brooklyn doesn't: space, more trees, nice public pools and rec facilities, a school system that doesn't seem to wear everybody out. But if I were considering a suburb I would definitely consider this one. I know a good realtor there too. If you post your email address I will send you that person's contact info.
Posted by: guest at July 11, 2008 12:15 AM
My husband and I are about to move from Brooklyn to NJ and we've both lived here our whole lives. I wouldn't go anywhere until you are really ready to leave Brooklyn. "Cheap housing" is just not enough of a reason to keep you from regretting it. I never, ever thought I would leave Brooklyn and if I had gone any earlier I would have been miserable. We're leaving because we're simply tired of living here. I'll always miss the Brooklyn I grew up in but this isn't it. It's still a nice place for some people but it isn't what I want anymore. Look around before you decide to make a move because there are suburbs that aren't as rural as everyone seems to think. People have this delusion that if you leave NYC you will have to drive to get milk. I don't know why people have an obsessive need to have milk available for purchase with 10ft of their front door but there are places in NJ that have stores. Really - there are. We'll be able to walk to stores, the library, and commuter bus, etc. We don't have a nice little downtown area but there are plenty of places that do. Granted - I will never eat a bagel out there and who knows how many choices we'll have in restaurants but we're planning to have a baby so we won't be going out for a few years anyway!! If that wasn't the case and we were going to continue to have lots of money and time to spend only on ourselves, I don't know if we would be doing this. Don't go before you're ready because it will just cost you way more to come back in a year or two.
I also disagree about
Posted by: guest at July 11, 2008 3:53 PM
If its schools you are concerned about and don't want to leave an urban environment, Bay Ridge's PS 185 is ranked no 6 in NYC schools. Plus music class is given in every grade. We were pleasantly surprised about that. Were were originally zoned for PS 321 but left for more space and a yard with a veggie garden!
But if you must leave, my sister lives in Verona, NJ one town over from Montclair. So she enjoys the benefits of Montclair without the taxes. Still high compared to here but not as bad as Montclair. Schools are great too.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Posted by: italiana71 at July 11, 2008 4:44 PM
We have friends that moved to Beacon and love it. No restaurants to speak of, but cheap housing and space and a train link into midtown. They have complained about the teenagers having nothing better to do than get drunk and go cow tipping however! Schools are so-so I hear. I've got 2 kids growing up in Victorian Flatbush and going to public schools. If you can afford it, this area is a good compromise. space, trees, yards, driveway, plus express subway and access to urban amenities. Otherwise, I'd try Midwood where a whole house costs maybe 5-600k. Once you factor in commuting costs and taxes, and the not-so-great public schools in the suburbs, it may not wind up cheaper. Just food for thought. I did 3 years in the Maryland suburbs of DC and hated every minute of it, but love love love living here.
Posted by: tinmouse10 at July 13, 2008 2:56 PM
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