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July 28, 2008
complaining neighbor
I'm just curious as for your take on this. We are doing a big renovation on a house in the South Slope. Before beginning, I met with my neighbors, apologized in advance, explained all my plans. I have filed all plans with DOB, doing everything by the book. But because I have a hydrant in front of my house, the dumpster ends up in front of my neighbor's house. He is furious, calling me complaining. I go by the job site regularly and I think the contractors are doing a good job of keeping it clean and closing up the dumpster, but the guy calls 311. The inspector comes by, says, keep it clean, but no citation, as we are doing okay. Should I be doing something different or is this guy just being a jerk?
Comments
What a jerk. Just when I though all the jerks were in PS :-)
Next time he calls say the DOB inspector approved everything, get bent.
Maybe look up his house at nyc.gov and return the favor,
Posted by: denton at July 28, 2008 10:09 PM
If the neighbor doesn't have a valid complaint just forget it.
If you care for your relationship with him, and it's not too late, you could see if it's possible to have regular, scheduled pick ups for all the demolition to be taken away without using a dumpster. I have had this done in the past for exactly the same reason: a fire hydrant by my house and a garage next door (neither one could be blocked).
Posted by: Ray at July 28, 2008 10:31 PM
If you're looking for a solution, you can have your GC schedule a container for the morning of street cleaning, and have his guys fill in that day (that is, only get a container when the construction debris piles up) and have it picked up in the afternoon.
You could, of course, ignore your neighbor, but usually in my experience it is good policy to go out of your way to placate adjoining properties. Another idea is that the next time he fumes, tell him that you're sorry for the inconvenience and to please feel free to use the container to get rid of some of his own junk.
Posted by: an architect in Brooklyn at July 28, 2008 10:34 PM
Not for nothing but the dumpster is on a public street - and you went out of your way to schmooze the neighbors and let them know what you were doing. So while its worth it to go the extra distance, for some people it's never enough. When the house next door did a gut reno the dumpster was out front for well over 6 months and no one got bent out of shape about it. No one owns the streets and no one is owed a parking space.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 29, 2008 12:00 AM
I wouldn't appreciate having a neighbor's dumpster in front of my house for several weeks/months either but I'm grown up enough to realize there's probably no alternative. Nevertheless, I'd take the initiative to improve relations. Every week or so bring him a bottle of scotch, give him tickets to a game or a gift certificate to a good local restaurant, whatever it takes to show him you appreciate his patience. Even if he's a bonehead, it's still a small investment for future peace and cooperation.
Posted by: Steve at July 29, 2008 12:24 AM
Smack him up, lol...
No seriously ur ok, but if you dont have a DOT permit for the dumpster the DOT can hit you with a ticket they usually dont but can. Ummm u can try getting a fully enclosed dumpster, but they are a little more money. Usually used when lead/asbestos is involved.
Posted by: alrosariojr at July 29, 2008 7:52 AM
Thanks for the comments. We definitely have all the permits for dumpsters and everything else. I looked into removing the debris by dumpster, but it would be a lot more expensive and difficult for the contractor, or at least that's what they say. They say that they can do that after the demolition part ends -- but the demolition is taking awhile (it will be a total of 3 months by the end)
Steve, I hear where you're coming from. I wouldn't like it either. My other neighbors have been fine with it though, recognizing as you say it's just a part of life in a city. I lived near a dumpster for a year when my daughter was small. The construction noise kept waking her up. But I never thought of complaining to the city. I have tried really hard to be nice to my neighbors, I offered to pay to have his windows cleaned if they got really dusty. When he called 311, I felt internally like it wasn't worth making an effort anymore, maybe I was just being a pushover. But maybe you're right, maybe I should just grit my teeth and send them presents.
Posted by: 146steven at July 29, 2008 8:45 AM
Do you have a better relationship with your neighbor on the other side?
Yes, he is being a complete jerk.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at July 29, 2008 9:04 AM
Thanks, Mrs. Limestone. We love your renovation blog by the way!
THe other neighbors have been perfectly nice.
Posted by: 146steven at July 29, 2008 10:03 AM
Take him out to a strip joint. Just kidding. Sometimes people just want an enemy and life works better for them that way. One philosopher said life is empty without a struggle or cause. You're it. Hopefully he will get over it once the dumptster is gone. Ask him what he would do if he was renovating and the hydrant was in front of his house?
Posted by: Iknow at July 29, 2008 10:20 AM
As long as the dumpster doesn't move in - all is ok. It should not be there for more than a couple of days at a time. Get dumpster, fill dumpster, remove dumpster promptly - repeat.
Posted by: SenatorStreet at July 29, 2008 10:43 AM
What is it that your neighbor wants? You have to know this to resolve the situation.
Posted by: superstooper at July 29, 2008 10:55 AM
I think my neighbor would want what SenatorStreet says. But the contractor says this is impossible. First of all, they are bringing out debris daily. Then they can only park it one day a week, so they have to have it all week or not at all for the week. Since there is renovation going on throughout the house, he doesn't want to do a truck removal situation. I see dumpsters all over brooklyn, so I don't think it's outrageous, though I understand it's a drag.
Posted by: 146steven at July 29, 2008 11:00 AM
So, try to explain the entire situation to your neighbor- like you are putting your thinking caps on together. Have the neighbor try to make a decision for the best course of action- taking into account all of the facts. I find so often that if you can make the person who is feeling the loss of control, feel like the decision maker- they arrive at something rational.
Posted by: superstooper at July 29, 2008 11:10 AM
BTW- I am restoring a five story 10,000 sq ft. brownstone and I do not have a dumpster.
Posted by: superstooper at July 29, 2008 11:12 AM
Your contractor can definitely use a truck rather than a dumpster.
Posted by: superstooper at July 29, 2008 11:13 AM
"But the contractor says this is impossible."
This really means "I don't want to do it that way" and/or "that will cost me money I didn't budget for." Truly impossible is, e.g., a floor not supported by beams. A container each week is merely inconvenient; the question here is inconvenient for whom.
Posted by: an architect in Brooklyn at July 29, 2008 11:28 AM
As someone who has lived in houses with dumpsters out front for renovations next door, I honestly have to ask, what's the big deal? If the dumpster has all the proper permits and the contractor does his best to minimize dust and dirt, what is the big deal?
The dumpster is on a public street, it's necessary to getting a particular job done, the inspector doesn't see any problems. I've lived with dumpsters in front of my house several times over the last few years and other than being ugly, they just sit there. OP sounds a lot more conscientious than the contractors we had next door and of everything those jerks did, the dumpster was never a problem.
I mean, how much bending over backward is someone reasonably expected to do? It's obvious the neighbor does not want to be "a good neighbor " and I don't see how OP is going to be able to change that. I mean, what's next? Homeowners call 311 because they don't like the color of a car parked out front, and want it towed? Spray chemicals on a neighbor with a dog because they don't want them walking them past their house? Good neighbors are about understanding each other and the common good.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 29, 2008 12:03 PM
You can get through to most people. I really believe that.
Posted by: superstooper at July 29, 2008 12:17 PM
So the general consensus seems that you're doing everything right in so far as communicating with your neighbors and trying to mitigate their concerns.
What about moving the dumpster to the other side of the hydrant when it gets full? Have them pickup on a street cleaning day and drop the replacement in front of your other neighbor.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at July 29, 2008 12:18 PM
superstooper- I believe that too- but I've also learned through painful experience that some people simply don't want to be gotten through to. In which case insofar as the neighbor is concerned, the damage is done. He's already pissed off and nothing is going to fix it.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 29, 2008 12:38 PM
Not so. I just had a woman to a party at my house who actually spit on me over 10 years ago. We were in a feud because she let her dog come to my window everyday to visit my dog, waking my sleeping infant. She now drops treats for my dogs and while not a close friend, is a smiling, waving neighbor. It took a lot of work but it was well worth it. We used to cross the street to avoid one another.
Posted by: superstooper at July 29, 2008 12:47 PM
I have people like that too and am now good friends with them. Although I have to say I never had the "honor" of being spit on. Both of you interacted in a much more personal way I think than OP and his neighbor, and obviously both of you eventually wanted to resolve the difficulty. since neither of us know the neighbor, it's all conjecture on our parts, but it just seems to me the ball is now in the neighbor's court.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 29, 2008 1:32 PM
I too think the neighbor is being unreasonable. That said, your contractor could have the dumpster in and out on the same day (or put it in front of the other neighbor).
If it hasn't been said elsewhere, offer the neighbor the use of the dumpster, make sure its kept cleaned in front of his house (even hose it down every day, whether it needs it or not).
Posted by: WBer at July 29, 2008 3:47 PM
It is possible to rent 2.5 cubic yard dumpsters, which have four wheels on the bottom. When full, a garbage truck comes around, the contracting crew rolls them out to the street -- the hydrant is a plus here -- and they get winched up and dumped into the back of the truck. The empty containers go back in your front yard. Now your neighbor(s) can complain about the noise.
As for your general approach, look in the mirror. A bunch of the folks above have said, 'ef him.' Others have pointed out that (presumedly) you are going to be neighbors for a while. How do you normally react when you get pushback that seems a bit unreasonable?
Posted by: altervoce at July 29, 2008 3:53 PM
I fully agree with bxgirl's comments. I'm not sure why you have to bend over backwards to placate this neighbor, who is not being reasonable. Some people need strife in their lives, and this person is choosing you for that. I would continue to be nice and neighborly to him when you see him, but I certainly would not go out of my way to buy him gifts.
Posted by: seahag21 at July 29, 2008 10:14 PM
Hi steve--in this instance, you may be the one who is being unreasonable. Take a deep breath and consider: you're not living with the construction, but your neighbor is. There is noise, dust, possibly vermin stirred up from the walls and or ground, lots of strange guys milling around and an attendant loss of privacy. To top it all off, he is also living with your crap literally in his face day and night. He's your neighbor, he pays taxes same as you, and he expects a reasonable quality of life. It is unfair for you to act as though the mess of your construction isn't unpleasant.
Saying "that's life in the city" or "it's a public street" as some posters have is saying nothing. You have to respect people in order for a city to work. This isn't a theme park or a playpen. If you can afford to gut renovate your house you can afford to ameliorate the inconvenience for your neighbors. Go to him with a gift certificate for a local restaurant, a definite day on which the dumpster will be gone and an apology. That's life in the big city kids: respecting boundaries and not behaving as if other people should be honored to live amidst your debris.
I don't know why the dumpster bothers him, but it does, and it's probably that it seems insulting to him. I'm sure you didn't mean to insult him, but you have to accept that you have and move forward from there. As long as your dumpster is there, he can't park in front of his own house or even look out the door without being confronted with it. The idea of a public street isn't that you can do whatever you want without regard for others, it's that you all treat it wisely to increase the peace.
Posted by: irm at July 30, 2008 1:51 AM
My neighbors are very good. They are always helping me. But sometimes I very angry on my neighbors because they shouting very much.
___________________________
jeff
widecircles
Posted by: jeffhardy at July 30, 2008 5:40 AM
irm- OP made every effort to be considerate of his neighbor and to minimize the inconvenience. Construction is messy and dirty and affects your neighbors but what's the alternative? Never renovate your house or fix it? I'm speaking as one who has lived through it several times, and I do know what it's like. Construction is a necessity,a pain for everyone, dumpsters are ugly, get over it.
"I'm sure you didn't mean to insult him, but you have to accept that you have and move forward from there. As long as your dumpster is there, he can't park in front of his own house or even look out the door without being confronted with it."
What a totally ridiculous statement. Do you think renovators can throw debris out in little scented kitchen bags? Not repair their houses until the floors cave in so as not to "insult" the neighbor with their dumpster? How asinine.
And frankly, it is a public street.
Definitions from Merriam-Webster of "Public":
exposed to general view
of, relating to, or affecting all the people or the whole area of a nation or state
of or relating to business or community interests as opposed to private affairs
pertaining or devoted to the welfare or well-being of the community
Do you see anywhere "individuals are entitled to control the city street outside their door or window? Steve pays taxes too, you know. It's his street just as much as the control-freak neighbor's. Plain and simple.
If steve really believed his neighbors should be "honored" to live in his debris, he wouldn't have approached them in the first place, nor be as conscientious about checking on the contractor, nor have gotten all the proper permits. He did exactly what a good neighbor does. Other than that, it's on the bad neighbor's head.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 30, 2008 9:25 AM
Webster's doesn't support what you're saying--"affecting all people" includes the cranky neighbor. He is adversely affected. And the dumpster is not about the well-being of the community but the well-being of one person. It's shared space and it's piggy to hog it especially when it's not in front of your own house. The renovation is too much for steve to live with. I get that. But his neighbors are living with it and he should appreciate how inconvenient that is. Steve didn't so much do what a good neighbor does as what is required by law. If your neighbor left his filled garbage cans in front of your house for weeks on end and defended himself by saying he had a permit to do so, you would still be peeved. And understandably so. The message being sent--and I believe it's as unintentional as it is real--is that Steve's convenience is more important than his neighbor's comfort. The bottom line is that the situation is NOT working for steve's neighbor so he should move the dumpster to the other side. And, if the other neighbors object? Wel,, then maybe it isn't reasonable to ask your neighbors to greet your crap every morning for days on end.
Posted by: irm at July 30, 2008 9:59 AM
You are really being ridiculous- an if the neighbor wants to renovate? I repeat- read steve's OP. You obviously haven't bothered.
the dumpster is not permanent, it's part of a special situation. the neighbor os going out of his way to make it a problem. He needs to get over himself. I see my neighbor's garbage every week- so what? It goes on the street for collection. That's the way it is.
And your solution? make it the other neighbor's problem? Because the first neighbor really doesn't give a damn about anything except himself. And for the final time- it's a public street. It belongs to everyone. Do you know nothing about construction or renovation? You must not.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 30, 2008 10:07 AM
How about putting the dumpster in front of the OTHER neighbor's? *the one who's not complaining.
Posted by: Minmin at July 30, 2008 10:15 AM
Thanks for all the commentary. I appreciate all viewpoints.
I just want to say that I do think we've been communicative and responsible by any reasonable standard. I started off by explaining all our plans and apologizing profusely. Nonetheless, I understand those of you who say I should go to even more extraordinary lengths to satisfy my neighbor. I guess I was pissed off by his immediately angry manner and his calling 311 (which I would only do in an extreme case.) I would be likely to do more for him if he had taken a friendlier approach.
The contractor says it would be extremely inconvenient to relocate the dumpster (to the friendly neighbors) , because the hitch is only on one side, and therefore the only time they could ever move it would be the weekly street cleaning. He says that's hard to coordinate for the dumpster company and would cost them time and money. Ditto with truck removal.
It may be that the contractor is being stubborn here. I have tried to pressure the contractor but everything is such a delicate negotiation (time, money, etc..) and I'm not sure how necessary it is, how much I care to spend on it, because part of me feels like I've done everything reasonable, and part of me feels bad because it obviously upsets him.
On the other hand, I've lived with dumpsters in front of my house, or renovations next doors and never thought of complaining. I hear what you're saying, irm, but I would have the exact same attitude if my neighbor was renovating -- just something i have to put up with, as long as there is some consideration.
I feel like they just are angry, and nothing I can do will palliate them, but i'll keep trying.
Posted by: 146steven at July 30, 2008 2:15 PM
Thanks for the reply Steve--obviously you've done more than some people by speaking to your neighbors in the first place. And obviously he is not cool with the dumpster and complained. Which is what you're supposed to do when you're unhappy. If you're upset that your neighbor is upset--and you ARE--complain to the contractor. You're paying him, and you're paying him to deal with problems, not complain to you. You're making yourself and your neighbor upset because you are unwilling to be more firm with the contractor who does this for a living. Of the three parties, he should be the one most able to be inconvenienced because he's the one being paid. Maybe the neighbors are just angry--or maybe the disruption of your construction during a heat wave is angering them. We're all human. Unless he's a total creep, your neighbor should be soothed by contact and apology from you--recognizing that he is angry and has a right to be angry and that you respect that and appreciate his patience. Don't think, "I've done all I can do": since the presence of the dumpster is ongoing, maybe consideration from you needs to be as well. It's nice to warn them about the construction, but you are warning them that their peace and quiet and privacy and even parking or play space will be disrupted for months. It may not have bothered you in the past, but it bothers them, and I understand that. It doesn't necessarily make him a jerk. If you just bought the house, he may not know you and feels you're getting the relationship off on a bad foot.
Posted by: irm at July 30, 2008 2:34 PM
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