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June 1, 2008
Selling w/o an agent
I was wondering if anyone had experience/advice on selling a property w/o using an agent. I own a duplex garden in Greenpoint, and recently closed on a two family in the same neighborhood. About ten weeks ago I signed an agreement with a realtor from The Developers Group. I signed a six month exclusive with him (4% commission). There were problems from the start. He neglected to tell me about a vacation he all ready had planned. He would cancel showings for the entire week if there was Holiday (mother's/memorial etc.). Basically his sales strategy was to post on craigslist and hold a 90 minute open house on Sundays. It probably didn't help that he was located in the Park Slope area and the apartment is in Greenpoint. Basically after ten weeks of no movement (even with a 91k price reduction from the original asking price!) there has been no movement. While I certainly question his talents, he was ethical enough to let me out of the six month exclusivity agreement. At this point I am considering trying to sell it myself. I have no experience in the real estate industry other than as a buyer. Is this a terrible idea? Should I assume the problem was with the realtor or is just an accurate reflection of current mortgage conditions? Is taking the 4% commission I would have paid to the realtor and using it to further reduce the price of the apartment wise? To what extent can I work with brokers w/o signing any sort of exclusivity agreement? Any idea what the closing costs are on the selling side? The condo is listed right now for 499k. Any advice would be appreciated!
Comments
I'm sorry for not answering your question, but my first inclination would be to keep the condo and rent it out for at least a few years. You're clearly not averse to being a landlord, and it seems you don't need the equity from the condo to put into your new home (unless I'm missing something). You know the neighborhood and live nearby--why not just hold onto it for a while?
Posted by: curiositykilledthecat at June 1, 2008 5:56 PM
The big idea is to put it out there on craigslist.
No offense but the real estate broker sounds like a joke.
You can do this yourself with a minimum amount of difficulty.
In addition to having more control over the visitors.
.
Posted by: Ysabelle at June 1, 2008 6:04 PM
curiosity, thank for your insightful post. It is good advice. In fact, many close friends have said the same thing. I think on a strictly economical level it is the correct advice. However, circumstances are a little different here. Like, I mentioned in my original post I am not in the real estate business, and have zero experience as a landlord. I was willing to take on the rental unit in the two bedroom, because it made financial sense and allowed me to buy a house I really loved. My intent now is not necessarily to maximize the potential profits on the condo. I would rather just sell, free up some cash flow, and use it to make renovations on the historical house I just bought and love. More a lifestyle issue than a financial issue.
Posted by: deepBTUz at June 1, 2008 6:14 PM
Ysabelle- Agreed. I am in sales but not real estate. I posted more to gauge if there was some potential pitfall I was missing. "A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client".... that sort of thing.....
Posted by: deepBTUz at June 1, 2008 6:17 PM
It can't be the price, the location, the propoerty, or the market. It must be the realtor.
Posted by: guest at June 1, 2008 7:34 PM
guest, the post was written in the general tone of a question......
Posted by: deepBTUz at June 1, 2008 8:48 PM
can't help much but for me personally if i'm looking to rent or buy, i feel better better getting it from owner than from agent
Posted by: reno911 at June 1, 2008 9:05 PM
<-- Realtor
Give the agent a break... but at the same time, make sure it is on NYtimes.com EVERY day/week, and stay on top of his/her efforts. There are alot of condos on the market, but prices aren't exactly going up. NOW is the time to sell, while interest rates are low.
BTW, if he DOESN'T put it on craigslist, you would say, "lazy bastard, he didn't even put it on craigslist..."
Make sure there are floorplans available, have him take some killer pics, and make sure he RESPONDS fast to responses. Tell him you will test him. Keep him on his toes, but respect his feet. It might be price/location/market related.
Posted by: howrealnyc at June 1, 2008 10:54 PM
PS:
Make sure he sends a blast email to all agents. Eflyer type... and make sure he is offering a fair co-broke to agents. 50/50
Posted by: howrealnyc at June 1, 2008 10:56 PM
I can only speak from the other side. I've never used an agent, either for renting or buying a property, and probably never will. An agent pretty much ensures that I'll pay top dollar and I like getting deals, even if those deals need more work than most people are willing to put into them.
If you have a flair for marketing you should try it at least. There are a lot of people like me out there looking for those 4+% under market deals and the fact is there are more venues for FSBO today than there were a few years ago.
OTOH, people who have beaucoup bucks probably won't be as patient as a FSBO shopper. They'll be more reluctant to trust a property that hasn't been vetted by an agency. That's why they use agents to shop for them. They'll probably also be more reliable potential buyers in the long run because agents have the experience to smell the ringers. Just make sure to work with a real estate attorney because every seller has to play by the same rules.
Posted by: Steve at June 1, 2008 11:06 PM
I am in the process of selling my one bedroom apartment on a prime block in the North Slope. My wife and I are doing it ourselves. We decided to go down this path for a number of reasons. First, we initially opened up the sale just
to a network of our friends, friends of friends, co-workers and colleagues. That one open house went very well and resulted in one offer as well as some genuine interest from other potential buyers. Having already done much of the grunt work, i.e.: taking pictures, creating a floor plan, writing up an ad and combining them all into a flyer for the open house, we thought why not go the last step and open it up to the general public. We spent the $130 on a two week ad in the NY Times real estate section and put up an ad on Craigslist. We had our first open house on Sunday, June 1st and it went very, very well. We are holding a second open house next Sunday. Several people from this Sunday were genuinely interested and we expect to get an additional few bids from this process.
The best argument for selling the apartment yourself is you set the rules and you're responsible for everything that happens. A broker will have several listings they're selling at one time where as you can concentrate solely on your apartment. Also, since you won't have to pay a 4-6% commission, you can take off some of that savings from your asking price and very likely increase the number of serious potential buyers while splitting the difference.
The downside is it's definitely time consuming. But who's better equipped to sell your place, you who knows all the ins and outs of the building and can answer any and all questions? You or a broker who's going to have to be a go between because he/she doesn't remember all the details during an open house?
A good broker is going to be prepared to answer all those questions that come up - how much reserve does the coop have in the budget, are there any upcoming capital projects and are they included in the current maintenance or will owners being paying out of pocket for them, what's the history of the building, what's the ratio of owner occupied to renters in the building's units, what are the subletting rules, etc. - but unfortunately there are a lot of bad brokers out there, too. We found that being able to answer all these questions immediately and in a conversational way while sitting in our living room with the prospective buyers was very beneficial.
We're fortunate, though, that our apartment is on a prime block in close proximity to two subway stations and all the Park Slope amenities so it's an easier sell.
My advice is if you want to save yourself $20,000 or more, then the extra work involved in selling your place yourself is definitely worth it.
Posted by: guest at June 2, 2008 9:24 AM
If you have the time to do it, you can easily sell your place yourself. This is what I did and had an accepted offer in 2 weeks.
1) Fix everthing that needs to be fixed.
2) Stage your place to showcase it in best light possible
3) Take very good pictures (wide angle preferred) but keep them realistic (buyers hate when the place looks nothing like the pictures)
4) Create a floorplan if you don't aleady have one (smartdraw is a great user friendly application)
5) Post an ad on Nytimes.com
6) Viral marketing: Create a nice flyer (sell sheet) with all details and e-mail to all people you know
7) Carry your sell sheet with you, and distribute when opportunity arrises.
8) Consider co brokering; you will have buyers agents working for you and you will only shell out 2% commission
Hope this helps.
Posted by: guest at June 2, 2008 10:56 AM
"It can't be the price, the location, the propoerty, or the market. It must be the realtor."
How is this sarcastic defense of the realtor logical? If the price, location and property aren't good enough to get one single soul to come and look at the property why the heck did the broker take the listing in the first place?? Don't sign up for what you can't sell, dude. But if you do take it on then you do the work. Period. And this realtor did none of the work. Nor laid out a penny towards his own business. Please name one business in which you don't have to invest money to make money. There ain't any.
Even when the price, location and property are fantastic sellers really do expect realtors to do at least SOME work. This kind of laziness on the part of brokers is exactly why there will be more and more and more FSBO listings.
That said, OP, you did get what you paid for when you chose the broker who offered to charge you the least commission. Commission can't be the only thing you talk about with a broker. You should have a committment in advance for the NY Times ad, the number of open houses and when he'd do them. Also professional photoraphy and a floorplan. If you can't pay a decent commission to a top broker who will give you those things, then do FSBO and sell the place yourself. There's nothing in between that truly works these days.
Posted by: guest at June 2, 2008 2:25 PM
you can totally do it yourself... craig's list is key as is a good floorplan. keep the CL listing current and hold open houses for the next few weekends. unfortunately you are in the summer and things tend to be a little slower but there are always people looking. when brokers call you (and they will!) you should consider offering them a commission should they sell it. 2-3% should do the trick. if they ask permission to advertize it on their websites let them - it's free and will get the place shown more often. selling an apartment takes time and is bothersome but will be worth it in the long run when it is off your hands!
Posted by: sarahpgee at June 2, 2008 2:36 PM
Dear deepBTUz,
I am a 36 year resident of Greenpoint and a broker for one of the major firms in the city. I would love to help you out. Shoot me an email if you are interested donjii@yahoo.com.
Posted by: guest at June 2, 2008 2:49 PM
If you know the market well enough to know your price, and you are willing to put in the time, no reason you can't do it yourself. Since this is a sale, don't limit yourself to CL; you need a Times ad. However, it can also be more comfortable to have a buffer between you and prospective buyers. I cannot believe you won't be able to find a hard-working and knowledgeable realtor in GP. Also, buyers think they can lowball a FSBO because they think a FSBo seller is willin gto cave on the comission he is saving and because they think a FSBO seller doesn't know the market.
Posted by: slopefarm at June 2, 2008 4:52 PM
9:24 thank you for your valued advice. It is certainly appreciated. Not to say too much, but I am 32 and inexperienced. I'm no fool, but I am certainly learning as I go. Thanks for taking the time.
Posted by: deepBTUz at June 2, 2008 9:56 PM
10:56....thank you! I'm definitely thinking of going that route....
Posted by: deepBTUz at June 2, 2008 9:58 PM
2:49...I will contact you off this website....If you have novel ideas I am all ears.....
Posted by: deepBTUz at June 2, 2008 10:00 PM
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