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June 18, 2008
Replacing subfloors necessary?
Dear Brownstoners,
I want to install new wood floors however my contractors has suggested that I lift up all old flooring/subflooring and replace with new subflooring without seeing the flooring. Is this common? He says the risk that I take if I don't do this is that I don't know what is underneath (rotten, damaged) and could face a more expensive reflooring in the future is there is something wrong with the floor boards underneath.
Floors seem fairly sturdy to me. No creaks or soft spots. Has anyone gone through this is weighed the pros and cons?
Thanks for your help in advance,
BedStuy Owner
Comments
did he mention the other popular alternative? removing the subfloor and replacing it with stacks and stacks of money? :)
unless there was some notable reason to believe the subfloor is damaged, it sounds suspect that he'd immediately float this idea. i mean, in theory he's got a point, and if you have the money, hey why not? but from the normal subfloors i've seen, you'd only need to replace a few throughout, if that. can you just wait to see what it looks like when you pull up the old flooring?
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at June 18, 2008 4:29 PM
I think that you should leave the old subfloor and replace and pieces or spots that are rotted with plywood. I did this and it worked just fine. The old pine floorboards in my house were 1/14 thick and are much stronger than plywood.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:35 PM
On the other hand, if you do decide to get rid of some/all of that flooring...I want it. So give a holler on this post and I'll contact you.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:38 PM
I had new flooring installed right over the old sub-floor on my entire parlor floor and its just fine - no creaking, dipping, sagging, buckling or anything. Totally solid. The contractor did put that red paper over the old sub floor first though - maybe thats what makes it so solid. I had actually suggested that maybe the thing to do was to replace the old sub floor and the contractor looked at me like I was crazy. Totally unnecessary he told me - and he was right.
Now on the other hand - on my garden level the old sub floor did have to be ripped out because the joists were all sagging and twisted. Some had to be replaced. Some had to be re-cemented into their pockets and some had to be shimmed. Then a new plywood sub-floor was installed - totally level. So as far as I can tell - it really depends on the shape the joists are in.
Posted by: fexleycb at June 18, 2008 5:13 PM
Op here. Thanks for everyone's feedback. I will only replace areas that need it.
Thanks
Faye
Posted by: feelyng at June 18, 2008 6:03 PM
Op here. Thanks for everyone's feedback. I will only replace areas that need it.
Thanks
Posted by: feelyng at June 18, 2008 6:04 PM
If the subfloor was in that bad a shape, believe me, you'd know it. Here, I put 5/8" underlayment down over the old subfloor but I was doing 11" herringbone and that needs a very flat and stable surface for a nailing base.
Posted by: Steve at June 18, 2008 6:26 PM
I've never been lucky enough to have a subfloor in decent enough condition to keep as is. The joists are usually sagging and need to be leveled. What I've done in cases where the subfloor looks good but uneven is take it up carefully, put down plywood and use the subfloor as flooring. Probably pricey option for a contractor to do.
Posted by: rh at June 18, 2008 9:38 PM
If your joists are not level and you need to re-level the floor ... you need to rip up subfloor and start fresh.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 4:10 PM
Get a few opinions.
If every single contractor mentions that the subfloor will need to be addressed in some way, then you probably have a problem that you're not seeing. If not, well, then see Jimmy Legs' alternative.
You're looking for sponginess and un-flatness. Three specific things you can look for:
1. Get the heaviest person you know to walk around and really watch the floor where (s)he walks. If there is give, then you have a problem.
2. If you can see the joists from the basement, then go and look at them. You won't be able to tell if they are twisted, but you will be able to see things like repairs other people have done (attempted?), and you will be able to check for things like termite and water damage.
3. Get a six or eight-foot straight, flat thing and check the flatness of the floor in many directions.
Posted by: vanburenproud at June 20, 2008 2:44 PM
Op here,
Do I need to remove old floors that are on top of subfloors? Or can I just put new floors on top of them with underlayment if all is pretty sturdy?
Thanks again,
BedStuy Owner
Posted by: feelyng at June 20, 2008 7:23 PM
Depends on what the old flooring is and what you want.
It's better to leave old linoleum, for example, where it is because it's harmless lying there, but when you tear it up you create an Asbestos Abatement problem.
But if the old floor isn't flat or has water or termite damage, for example, it's better to remove it.
Keep in mind that you lose height if you put floors right on top of floors. Doorways are affected, doors might need to be trimmed.
On the parlor floor, this might not matter. If your garden floor is already kind of close, it might be better to dig down and find the bottom, and build up from there.
I had many layers of old floor because there was a ton of water and termite damage. The solution for many years seemed to be fill the sagging part with something like cement or newspaper (?) and then lay down a whole new floor.
I have to warn you that this created an illusion of solid floors that really weren't solid. The minute you started really looking, it was obvious that it all had to come out, down to the joists, and almost all new subfloor needed to be put in.
Not that this is going to be your fate--but that's why I would not dismiss your contractor out of hand.
Posted by: vanburenproud at June 20, 2008 8:26 PM
You could always take up a section of the floor down to the subfloor first to see what you have. I did that and it was like geology-- cretaceous, jurassic, mesozoic, etc. Subfloor is just usually plywood, so it isn't necessarily the most expensive thing to replace. Of course, if you're living there ..... Also, it's true, in these formally "poor" neighborhoods, people didn't remove floors, just covered them up, so you can potentially gain a lot of height. I think a little exploration is called for.
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 9:15 PM
This is Op. I will definitely get to the bottom of the floors step by step to see if I need to remove it all or just sections.
Thanks for everyone's helpful comments.
Faye
Posted by: feelyng at June 21, 2008 3:18 PM
Vanburenproud; there's no asbestos in linoleum.
Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:34 PM
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