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June 4, 2008
How Much is Commercial Space Worth?
Please let me know what you think of 218 Midwood Street (on brownharris) which was recently reduced from 1,375,000 to 1,299,000. It is extra wide (23 feet), it has only two owner-occupied floors with only 1.5 bathrooms. The space on the basement level is zoned as a doctor's office (and constructed as such). The place also has 3 garages. I wonder how much the commercial space is worth. Is anyone renting out a commercial space in or around PLG? If so, how much are you charging per month?
Also, any opinions on what the place is actually worth in this market?
Comments
I keep meaning to go look at that house but haven't yet.
I'd be curious to know how much money someone would get from those doctors office spaces, too. The house is in Lefferts Manor and those corner houses are the only houses that have any kind of potential rental income, the ones that already have offices in that bottom floor, that is.
You should find out if it always has to be a medical tenant. Or if you can also legally (per landmarks, per the covenant, etc) put an attorney in there or accountant, etc.
Posted by: guest at June 4, 2008 3:12 PM
Just looked at the floorplan. If you only needed 3 or 4 bedrooms, not 5, you could turn the adjoining small bedroom to the front Master BR into a large master bathroom. So then you'd have 2 full baths upstairs and the half bath on the parlor level. A lot of people do that in these houses because that small extra bedroom is small for a bedroom but big and nice for a bathroom.
Posted by: guest at June 4, 2008 3:18 PM
Ask an attorney what that CofO is likely to allow...that will make a big difference.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 4, 2008 3:19 PM
The C of O says doctor's office and three garages (nice to see an accurage C of O). I think it is easy to use as a professional office of another type, not sure if the C of O has to be legally changed... On craigslist, people are asking from 2000-2700 for like offices.
Either way, do you think the asking price is in the range?
Posted by: mkop at June 4, 2008 3:26 PM
$1.375 was a bit high but $1.299 is a good price. That's a very pretty corner right there. All the houses on that corner are great.
Posted by: guest at June 4, 2008 4:45 PM
Any brownstoner regulars care to opine on the price?
My incling is that it is still to high (considering a new bathroom needs to be added).
Posted by: mkop at June 4, 2008 8:57 PM
Sorry if I'm confusing the point but what, if anything, does the commercial space do to things like your insurance and gas/electric/mortgage rates?
Posted by: Johnny at June 5, 2008 12:04 PM
I assume all of that goes up (insurance, electricity, etc). I even think that the mortgage rate goes up because it is treated as a two-family.
Posted by: mkop at June 5, 2008 12:50 PM
Is it really a "two-family" when you are not allowed to rent the bottom office space as a residential apartment?
Also the doctor who rents that space should pay for their own insurance and electricity and water on it. It's their expensive medical equipment to be insured, and who knows how much electricity their equipment uses. Get a separate meter on the space.
I would talk to someone who knows very specifically about houses with medical offices in the bottom. Why not ask the broker to make an introduction to another corner house in the neighborhood who has a current medical tenant on the bottom?
Posted by: guest at June 5, 2008 1:29 PM
Why not offer them 1.125?All they can say is no....Frome reviewing your past post you seem like a reliable solid buyer who the agent would take seriously in this market.Good luck and perhaps see you in the future as a neighbour-I bought here a little over a year ago and really like it here, after living in park slope for 8 years.I don't know about the rental or garages,except that street parking is pretty easy here-maybe something to use as a negotiation tool to get the price down.
Posted by: guest at June 5, 2008 3:34 PM
3:34 Thank you for the info. Good to know about the parking issue. We just started looking in PLG after looking in Harlem for awhile and we are very serious (and tend to think that we are as good as it gets in terms of buyers in this market, with the exception of all cash buyers).
Since you live in PLG, what is the scoop on the cable issue in Leffers Manor? I can't seem to get a straight answer on this. Can we get cable?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: mkop at June 5, 2008 3:49 PM
RE: Cable in Lefferts Manor; most blocks were never wired by Cablevision [LOOOONG story]. There arew a couple of exceptions [i.e. the north
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 5, 2008 4:15 PM
RE: Cable in Lefferts Manor, most blocks were never wired by Cablevision [LOOOONG boring story]. There are a few exceptions on blocks with telephone poles in the back yards* [i.e. the north side of Rutland I/south side of Midwood I]. Most people make due pretty well with satellite TV and DSL.
*Most LM blocks do not have telephone poles--phone wires run along the back fences which, I was told in 1974, are owned 1/3rd each by both facing homeowners and the phone company--I've never actually been able to confirm that.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 5, 2008 4:24 PM
this very beautiful house is not zoned for mixed use (it has no c2-1 overlay, it's just r2)
however, if the CO says md office, you could probably get away with it unless the md's insurance co. didn't like it.
-- the price is pretty good, though... you could make a few bucks renting garage space too
Posted by: guest at June 5, 2008 4:34 PM
I know nothing about the market for doctors offices but I would assume any professional would want a space that was renovated, which this definitely isn't.
Nothing against this (very nice!) house, but that would be another potentially major expense added on to an already top-of-the-market pricetag.
If you wanted to use the space to live in, you would also have to do renovations. More $.
Why not buy a cheaper house elsewhere in the (wonderful!) nabe and skip the headache?
Everyone is negotiable these days and prices will probably get even softer as more houses sit and spring turns to summer.
Posted by: guest at June 5, 2008 5:03 PM
NY Times says that a doctor's office cannot be used (legally) by another professional tenant (like an accountant).
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE3DD103EF93AA15751C1A967958260
It says:
"I own a four-family brownstone in a residential zone where a doctor's office is a permitted use for one of the units. Can this space be rented to another commercial use, such as for an accountant, or be used by the professional as a residence as well as an office? . . . Elliot Schuman, Brooklyn Answer: No. Vahe Tiryakian, a spokesman for the Department of Buildings, said the doctor's office cannot be rented to a commercial tenant."
If still true, the price of 218 needs to be adjusted accordingly. It may take a very long time to find a doctor for the space.
Posted by: mkop at June 5, 2008 6:52 PM
Regarding cable: I am on the north side of Midwood I and have had Cablevision and their Optimum Online Boost service (30Mbps down, 5Mbps up) since we moved in last summer.
I know there has been a history, but ours works great, and the speeds are indeed as advertised (I clock it regularly).
Posted by: jeffrey at June 5, 2008 6:54 PM
I should add that our house is one of those less common ones that Bob mentioned with a telephone pole at back corner of the property along the fence line.
Posted by: jeffrey at June 5, 2008 7:08 PM
in response to guest 3:34, i think that street parking is pretty tough in plg. when i return home later in the evening, i frequently spend a long time looking for parking. i think you could do quite well renting out the garage spaces and saving someone the headache of endless circling....
Posted by: plger at June 6, 2008 1:41 PM
The garages are easy cash (unlike the doctor's office, IMO)
You can get at least $200 a month for each place. So all three might be worth tacking on $100K to the pricetag of the house.
Posted by: guest at June 6, 2008 2:21 PM
PLGer is correct you can rent out those garages. You can get $250 a month for each of the garages you choose to rent out. Maybe more actually.
Someone said:
"I know nothing about the market for doctors offices but I would assume any professional would want a space that was renovated, which this definitely isn't.
Nothing against this (very nice!) house, but that would be another potentially major expense added on to an already top-of-the-market pricetag."
I have never heard of the landlord doing the buildout on a commercial office rental. The tenant does it. It's standard practice. Obviously the nicer the space is to start the more easy it is to rent out, but as the owner you don't do the renovation of the office, the doctor does.
Posted by: guest at June 6, 2008 2:22 PM
RE: "plger's" comment about the ease (or lack thereof) of parking; it seems to me that it's quite easy until about 10PM, much harder later.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 6, 2008 2:25 PM
Thank you everyone for your insight.
2:21, how does $200 per month on a garage (lets assume $600 per month on all three) translate to 100K extra on the price tag?
Posted by: mkop at June 7, 2008 12:12 AM
When our friends come here by car they always find parking right in front of our house or on our street. Either daytime or early evenings. I don't think it's as much a problem as some make it out to be. But if I ever owned a car I'd still gladly rent a garage from a neighbor, simply for the convenience. It's not the parking that'd be a pain for me but the moving of the car for street cleaning. I'd rather park it and forget about it for days or weeks at a time.
Posted by: guest at June 7, 2008 11:41 AM
My experience parking in PLG is that it can be very challenging in the Flatbush to Bedford blocks due to the large apt buildings at the Flatbush corners. Those who live in the blocks between Bedford and Rogers seem to have an easier time parking. The garages attached to tis property would be a breeze to rent out and $200 seems a safe number, tho one might get above that.
Posted by: guest at June 7, 2008 11:14 PM
I'd even pay $250 a month for a parking space so close to my house. Some might pay more.
I think the garage not far from here on Flatbush and Midwood (where the PLG Zip Car pickup/dropoff is located) is $300 a month for parking for private cars.
Posted by: guest at June 8, 2008 12:39 PM
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