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May 1, 2008
Which contractor to pick?
I have come down to two estimates for my garden floor kitchen, dining, laundry and BR gut reno after putting it off for about 4 years. Contractor A is a design build firm that has a good reputation on this site, and Contractor B is a neighborhood contractor that has been used by our neighbors and is currently working on a full gut reno on a house across the street. I have been to see his work a few times.
Contractor A is prompt, professional, reliable and thorough, but seems to charge almost twice as much for everything. e.g., the costs of updating the electric are around 12K for contrator A compared to 7K for contractor B. Cost for moving a standard window opening and installing a window in it (labor only) approx. 2K; cost for wainscoting about 30 ft (labor only) 2.5K. However, contractor B is less formal (gives an oral estimate and allows me to get a direct price from the subs), his plumber needs to be chased for estimates, etc. and I imagine the whole process will come up with some hidden costs and headaches, but hopefully they will be minor. I do not think contractor B is dishonest.
In this day and age of declining real estate prices, should I go with A or B? Those of you who have done renos or are in the process, I would love to hear from you.
Comments
You are buying service more than products. A responsible GC knows how to run a job which including managing his subs schedule and quality of work according to specs. You should be hiring a GC that you are sure will own all the responsibilty of building and managing your project. An oral estimate is not a contract and will change. If you deal directly with the subs in any way they become your responsibility not the GC. and you will be blamed for the delays and cost overuns. Contractor B sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Also everyone is a nice guy in the begining and that lasts until you can't get them to answer your calls or show up when they said they would. In the end there are no bargains and you get what you paid for. PS I am an architect and did a gut renovation on a browstone in Brooklyn Heights. We went with a contractor that the owner insisted on who was half the price. He was a nice guy working out of his truck and had little administrative skills. Consequently the owners ended up spending the same money on the project and it too three times
as long. Good luck.
Posted by: rfarch at May 1, 2008 6:50 PM
I chose contractor B for my renovation.... Rfarch is correct about the subs, but for me doing my renovation at 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost was worth it. Granted, I was very involved in the process, sourcing all the materials and taking trips to home depot and lowes 2X a week. If you don't mind spending the time and energy for a bargain, and dealing with some unavoidable aggravation, I say contractor B..
Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 7:24 PM
i'm the opposite of 7:24. we're doing a gut on the top 2 floors of our place and i hired a GC who gave me a line-item contract, which included his overhead. i knew that he would be v. hands on, v. timely and take care of most everything and, since i was preg at the time and had 2 kids (now 3) and a husband who works long hours, i needed that kind of hands on attention.
he's stayed on budget (although we did have a few change orders -- he usually found ways to adjust the job so the add-on change orders were washed out by deducted change-orders) and has stayed on schedule. we started the project in mid dec and are moving in mid May.
and, fwiw, it's been worth every penny. but i have a *fantastic* GC. i mean, it's amazing how good he is. (for example, i was checking out our paint job yesterday and thinking "it's nice, but there's some spots here and there that could be touched up." was going to wait to say anything. went over this morning and there was the GC, doing the touch ups himself.)
Posted by: 5onsackett at May 1, 2008 9:55 PM
Do NOT choose B unless you want big headaches. 7:42 is an idiot. Listen to the architect. We learn from our mistakes, usually.
Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 9:57 PM
I'd probably go with A too, but nothing says that they too won't come up with just as many change orders, won't have delays, issues sourcing, etc. If I were able to look across the street and see that B shows up on time and doesn't leave early etc., I might choose them. Besides, what design/build firm has consistently good reviews on this site?
Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 10:55 PM
5onsackett...
Please share the name and contact info of your GC
Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:17 AM
If you can afford Contractor A and you think his price is still reasonable, go with him. The price you pay will be worth the aggravation you save.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at May 2, 2008 9:48 AM
Yes, 5onsackett, PLEASE share the name of your contractor.
Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 10:20 AM
Curious to hear what your neighbors across the street say. I agree with the posts who recommend going with A, however, that decision is based on the simple adage you get what you pay for. I have personally gotten great work from folks who are 'informal' and the same level of great work from those who are 'formal' at twice the price. See how the gut reno is going across the street. You've got your answer if your neighbors throw up red flags.
Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 11:35 AM
hey 9:57. fuck you. I am not an idiot and my post was at 7:24 not 7:42., idiot..
Not everyone has $400K for their renovation.. And actually, I learned a hell of a lot along the way which will come in handy for future reno's... I agree it's n ot for everyone, but the OP was asking opinions and he is entitled to hearing various POV. I look back on my expresince as exhausting but rewarding and a success.
Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 12:42 PM
Thanks all. You make some great and helpful points. Mrs. Limestone, we can afford contractor A, but we'd also like to save the $ if it is worth it.
What do you all think of some of the costs I quoted in my original message? They initially seemed a little outrageous to me.
To answer 11:35 's question. The neighbors have moved out, they are preparing the building as a rental. But, the other neighbor who used this contractor and also the guy who did my fireplace felt contractor B was quite good. He's an elderly man from the neighborhood and people seem to know him.
Posted by: ohiise at May 2, 2008 12:46 PM
Perhaps a little more negotiation with A to bring the price down just a bit, explaining that you have recieved other bids from recommended GCs.
Otherwise, if you can pay for A, go with A. If you have time to spend and some aspirin, go with B.
Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:43 PM
why not get an estimate from contractor C? if it's close to what A offered, you have some confirmation that the price is reasonable, and that there's something fishy about B's low quote.
Posted by: z at May 2, 2008 3:28 PM
I chose contractor B... got a good price, but regretted it. Everything was a hassle, took forever, and got messed up. Really though, my contractor was more like contractor C.
Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:11 PM
5onsackett..., when after you have moved in and you feel your job is complete and all items on your punchlist met, please do come back and share your wonderful resourse! Maybe even some pics too!
Congratulations on the baby!
Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 11:34 AM
Yes, I do have a quote from contractor C which is closer to A. Thanks for reminding me. And thanks everyone for the advice.
Posted by: ohiise at May 4, 2008 1:28 PM
Sonsackett,
Can I have his name? I am buying a townhouse and it needs work, and I am nervous that I could hire the wrong GC and have lots of problems.
Posted by: premadas at June 30, 2008 5:46 PM
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