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May 12, 2008
Returning to brooklyn - advice sought
Hi all -- could use some neighborhood and broker recs. My husband and I are relocating back to the area after several years away (I used to live in park slope), and he's starting an entry-level (ie not super high paying) job on wall street that will require him to be there by 6:30am. I'm having a baby in the fall, and probably won't be working again until spring next year. We want to pick a bklyn neighborhood to rent in with an eye towards buying later. First, I could really use some leads on good, brooklyn knowledgeable brokers who can help with relocation rentals (someone previously posted about how frustrated they were when they went to an open house and the staffed agent didn't even know the nearest subway). Second, we're not sure which neighborhoods to focus on, since we've been away. Advice?
Thanks!
Comments
PS I should also add that we will need a 3br because we live with an in-law, and can't tell which neighborhoods have more of those in stock.
Posted by: newtothis at May 12, 2008 12:17 PM
If you're over 30, try Brooklyn Heights. It's a great commute esp if you want your husband home to help with the baby, and it's a great stay at home mom scene (ironically, more open than Park Slope, etc). And it will give you a good base from which to shop later.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 12:23 PM
"Not super high paying" and you're telling them Brooklyn Heights? I don't have an answer as to what's affordable and close AND has good schools, but I can tell you that my husband has to be downtown by 6:30 and it takes him under 15 minutes from the Nostrand Ave stop in Bed Stuy. We love the neighborhood, but we don't have children.
Posted by: rh at May 12, 2008 12:44 PM
Sunset Park is coming up and you could get to work in under 30 min. Perhaps faster on the N Train.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 12:56 PM
Sunset Park/South Slope/Greenwood Area- you might find cheaper rentals in greenwood heights than sunset park- geographically closer to the city and connected to park slope, but served by the R train or F train depending on the ave.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:03 PM
Prospect Heights. Up by Eastern Parkway you will have access to the 2,3,4,5. Franklin Avenue to Wall Street 20 minutes.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:03 PM
Brooklyn Heights that was funny. Sounds like for the income you have coming in you should look into Bedford Stuyvesant you could find a three story Brownstone on a good block for around 650k to 750k and close to the A train. Please do not start with all the negativity, like my mother said if you do not have anything positive to say maby its better you dont say anything at all.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:10 PM
negativity? you're the one laughing about brooklyn heights.
RENTING in BH is a deal, and if you haven't been in the rental market lately, "maby its" better you don't say anything at all
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:18 PM
Subway line is so important. If you and your baby actually want time with your husband during the week. An extra 30 minutes on the train at night coming home really is significant.
Prospect Heights is a good option, agreed. Eastern Parkway has prewar 3BR apartments.
Prospect Heights near the 2/3 Bergen Stop but on the other side of Flatbush from Park Slope is another area to look at. Not sure about how many 3BR are there though.
Avoid the R. People who live on the R say the R is better but I haven't seen that myself. The R is the worst. Always stopping, often a long wait even during rush hour. If you are going to be on the R you need to spring for a pricier neighborhood several stops closer to Manhattan. Or find something near 36th Street where the N stops, as 12:56 suggests. But if you have to take the R even a few stops to get on the N, forget it.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:18 PM
If he starts work at 6:30 am, he doesn't commute during busy hours so it's not a concern.
Taking the N will skip lower manhattan and send you straight over the bridge to Canal.
I always think of those prewar apartment buildings on eastern parkway as crown heights rather than prosp. heights, but maybe I'm wrong.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:03 PM
The N is not good for Wall Street, true. And what's the point in being near the N when you have to switch to the before you get to Manhattan.
We know somebody in a prewar on Eastern Parkway, almost directly across from the Brooklyn art museum and that's not Crown Heights. Behind the museum is Crown Heights.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:09 PM
My husband and I are in a similar situation. We are moving back to Brooklyn after 18 months away. We've got a little baby so are looking for a 2 bedroom. We used to live at 5th Ave and 3rd St in Park Slope but need more space now. Does anyone know a broker for Prospect Heights? I walked around there last week and didn't see any realtors.
Posted by: rasmalai at May 12, 2008 3:05 PM
Oh and I mean on the west side of Washington. Or PSlope. What would the price for a 2/1 with w/d/dw be?
Posted by: rasmalai at May 12, 2008 3:17 PM
Looking for a 3 bedroom rental will take some time as there are not that many of them. I would check with all the brokers who cover Windsor Terrace/Kensington. Expect to pay $3k+/mo.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 3:27 PM
Thanks to all who have posted -- and look forward to hearing from others with opinions. Anyone have any thoughts on the broker lead question?
Posted by: newtothis at May 12, 2008 3:45 PM
IMO everyone who is advocating a short commute for now for new parents is right on.
Your question really depends on your price point -- if by entry level you mean entry level associate for an MBA in an investment bank or JD at a large law firm, then I am guessing that you can afford up to $4000 a month.
For that price, a 3BR in Brooklyn heights unfortunately is out of reach -- and thus the north side of Park Slope, Prospect Heights and Crown Heights may be your best bets. Plus, they have a lot of older apartment buildings, so you may be able to find somehting along those lines if you prefer that style of living. You may (or may not) be able to find somehting at the price level in Park Slope, and definitely in Prospect Heights and Crown Heights.
As for Clinton Hill or Bed-Stuy, I love the A/C line, but it drops you off on Fulton Street, which may or may not be convenient for your husband to get to work easily. If that works for him, then certainly include this and Ft Greene in your options. Like Carroll Gardens, it is a good neighborhood but much of the neighborhood may be incovnenient to the subway. Plus, I think you can find some decent 3 BR's under $4000 (maybe 3500 or so).
Also, Carroll Gardens and Cobble Hill are very child friendly, but the dependence on the F train probably won't work. Plus 3 BR's approach or exceed the 4000 mark here too.
As for Sunset Park and Bay Ridge, I think the commute might be too long for what youare looking for, but I don't know enough to comment otherwise.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 4:03 PM
I'd go south slope/greenwood/sunset park. R train is fine, I don't get the criticism.
The R local from 36th street in sunset park to rector st. would be about 30 minutes. From Atlantic/Pacific it would probably be around 20.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:09 PM
we just saw this place and it's not for us, but really nice:
http://www.bhsbrooklyn.com/detail.asp?id=895740
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 6:57 PM
Bay Ridge and Sunset Park are definitely more affordable. Check out Craigslist. Also, Midwood and Kensington area are affordable. Ocean Parkway has some very nice large apartments. The Q is reliable for the Midwood neighborhood. R line in Bay Ridge is ok, but if you get something closer to 59th Street, (Bay Ridge border) you can walk to the N express stop. But you're still going to need the R local if he is working on Wall Street. From 77th Street or Bay Ridge Avenue, it's about a 40 minute straight trip to Rector Street. Also, Bay Ridge is a very nice area. You don't need a car-shopping and restaurants are all within walking distance.
I would not recommend Bed Stuy or Crown Heights. I am a native New Yorker, not a transplant.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 8:34 PM
I don't live in NY anymore but have a home in Clinton Hill. I love my neighborhood but every hood has something to recommend it.
Brooklyn Heights is lovely and your hubby is active can walk the bridge to work or be home in 2-3 stops. It has just about everything a neighborhood can offer but the downsides are parking and price. If your hubby in entry level in a training program then he's on the way up $$ wise. You could struggle and stretch your money and when he's making good bank and you are back to work then BH would be great. It has wonderful schools all train lines intersect there, restaurants, the promenade etc.
Park Slope is also a good hood but parking, price and just about the same as BH. You will have benefit of tons of young families and a very active community.
Downside (for me) Crime. There are an element that find the slope to be a ripe grazing territory for petty crime. Alot of muggings break-ins, theft, push-ins etc. But folks find it worth it.
Clinton-Hill/Fort Greene - Emerging. It has been emerging for decades now but just can't quite get over the hump. The housing stock is excellent and you can pick stuff up cheaper than in PS or BH (but not by much). There is not the obvious wealth that is evident in the heights or parts of the slope but I love it because of its diversity, restaurants, and quiet. There is a good family dynamic and a few schools are notable. The downside is the Atlantic Yards Project which will kill the soul of the neighborhood. That coupled with the fact that the there are small pockets of drugs and crime that the city government could care less about really keep it from being a great neighborhood.
Posted by: bklyngirl at May 12, 2008 8:51 PM
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/678315386.html
Check out this 3 bedroom for $2300 in Bay Ridge. Looks decent and the price is right.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 9:29 PM
I would definitely look at Bay Ridge.
I don't know how early the expresses run, but he can take a bus and probably be at work in 20 minutes tops, especially so early.
There is a terrific group of parents on Yahoo.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bay_ridge_parents/
There is quite a bit to do with a little one with tons of great parks.
If you stick around schools will surely be an issue and Bay Ridge has some of the best elementary and middle schools.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:12 PM
I would Move to Carroll Gardens or Cobble Hill. THey are very safe. The F train is 25 min to Midtown.
Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 11:06 PM
Hey OP -
The advice you're getting is all over the place. A 3 BR in Brooklyn Heights could cost you 5K+. The people on this list have no clue regarding how much people on Wall St. make. If you're talking about an entry level broker postiion on Wall St. of 60K+ commission & bonus, the landlord will only count on the 60K. The same rule applies to an entry level associate banker position (aka Vice President) which usually generates just 70 - 100K plus bonus. Again, the landlord will only factor in the bonus. Typically you must make 40 times the amount of monthly rent per year. That means that if your rent is $4000 per month, you must make 160K.
So what's your price range? 2K might get you something in Crown Heights or Prospect Lefferts Gardens. 3K might get you something in Kensington, Ditmas Park, Windsor Terrace, South Slope, or the extended border of Prospect Heights. $4K might get you something in Park Slope and Prospect Heights proper.
For the commute, I'd certainly agree with all of the posters that suggested anything on the 2/3/4/5/A lines. They offer the fastest commute to Wall Street via train. Forget anything by the R and C trains since the wait alone will add 15 - 30 minutes to your husband's commute each day. The F train is also not that fast, since it's local and you have to switch to the A to get to Wall Street (Fulton, then walk for about 7 minutes).
Alternatively, you could move out to Kensington / Ditmas Park (close to the F or Q trains at Church) and for $5 hubby could take the express bus to work (just 15 minutes to Wall Street!). You just need to be close to the intersection of Ocean Parkway and Church Avenue.
Make sure that you visit the neighborhoods that you are considering at night and during the weekends to make sure that you are comfortable in the area.
re: schools - check out www.insideschools.org for some very useful information
(BTW, my partner is a manager at an investment bank and I am a Brooklyn real estate agent).
Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 8:46 AM
You can actually get a 3bdrm for less than 3K in Kensington and you don't have to only be near the intersection of Ocean and Church to take the express bus, If you live on the east side of Kensington(east of Ocean Parkway) and near to Cortelyou, you can pick up the bus at Stratford and Cortelyou. It takes my husband 30 minutes to get to Park and 23rd in rush hour. If your husband has to be at work by 6:30, even the Q train with a switch at Atlantic for a 2,3,4,5 won't take that long.
Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 10:23 AM
Kensington is great for someone on a budget. But if I had additional funds, Park Slope would be my #1 choice.
Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 10:38 AM
Kensington is great for someone on a budget. But if I had additional funds, Park Slope would be my #1 choice.
Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 10:38 AM
someone already posted a link to a nice looking 3 bedroom duplex for 3300 in brooklyn heights -- so don't listen to "real estate agents" who say you can't get anything for less than 5k. look yourself. Halstead, Corcoran, BHS, Elliman (all .com) are just some of the brokers with online listings.
Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 10:41 AM
You definitely need to give us your rent budget.
Also consider that in many of the brownstone neighborhoods, there just isn't that much stock of true 3BR apts, so they are priced high and take longer to find. You will find more 2 BR + den/office set-ups.
Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 12:35 PM
Ocean Parkway, KENSINGTON, safe diverse and affordable..I just love my 1BR on OP with 10' celings for a little over 1k a month.
Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 4:11 PM
Bay Ridge has lots to offer but a fast commute for a brand new father who wants to get home to his family in under 30 minutes, is not one of them. Also the OP isn't thinking about schools when her baby isn't even born yet. And when they're looking for a short-term rental, not to buy for long-term yet.
The 2/3/4/5 train is essential for a decent commute to Wall Street. Look along that line.
If you can find a rental in one of the prewar buildings in PLG on the park that's a good option for both commute (the 2/5 trains stop at Sterling in Crown Heights a few blocks away; or the B/Q is right there on Lincoln) and for having the park to bring baby in his stroller every day. But those rentals are scarce. Alas.
Posted by: guest at May 14, 2008 11:25 AM
Park Slope, Kensington, Midwood, Sheepshead bay area, etc (family communities that provide appropriate amenities; schools, supermarkets, variety stores, etc - also large number of rent stabilized buildings, upper west as well). Inexpensive is one thing, but living in a community that feels comfortable for you and your family verses trendsetting may be best. Nice parks within walking distance of your home, comfortable walk and feeling safe with your children; sitting on your stoop or otherwise. Childcare options that reflect your background and values. As a lifelong Brooklynite good schools are an issue in the "fringe" areas cited. That is why many children from many of these "up&coming" areas are incarcerated, murdered, crowd followers, etc. Yes, many straighten out - but far too many are lost to the streets. Up and coming seems to relegate around the number of bars and dining establishments versus the quality of life that Brooklyn families seek. The "fringe neighborhoods" seem to barely offer the security of community that sustained it even in the most trying economic periods (since crack, aids led to sincere breakdown of family). And, it is these communities that can and generally ignite during economic downturns and without the security and structure of community and family, I almost dread such an event. Many of the trendsetters are just transients into these neighborhoods or folks without children. I suggest picking a neighborhood based on what's best for your child (education, safety, playmates, healthcare, values, community events, etc). Sick child in the middle of the night what hospital would you want to find yourself in.....
Experience......
Posted by: guest at May 14, 2008 1:31 PM
I agree, Prospect Heights is perfect. It's safe, still undervalued for apartments and is in a fantastic location for trains and walking (Prospect Park, the farmers market at Grand Army Plaza, Park Slope and Fort Greene are all right there, etc.) Bay Ridge and Sunset Park may be possibilities for later, but with a baby and working husband if you can afford to be a little closer to Manhattan you should try to be. Also, SP and BR do not have many of the amenities (cute stores, diverse grocery options, etc.) that are always good perks. However, the property values in Sunset Park are sure to go up as young people and artists are flocking to the area which usually a sign of increases soon to come. Walk around a bit and see for yourself, maybe I'm wrong!
Posted by: guest at May 14, 2008 2:27 PM
Please, wall street people don't have evenings - they work. Never see their small children during the week. And the commute time home doesn't matter (even if they did have some evening time) because they take black cars home in the evening hours.
Posted by: guest at May 14, 2008 5:35 PM
I think there is a commuter ferry that's starting up again to Wall Street from Bay Ridge. It's like a 10 minute trip. Check it out.
Posted by: guest at May 14, 2008 5:52 PM
I need the name of a good managing agent for a 24 unit building in the Park Slope/Prospect heights area. Preferably someone who has dealt with an active board. Building is 3 years old.
Much appreciated
Posted by: Maglionex at May 15, 2008 12:05 PM
My husband and I rented a large one bedroom loft apartment on Pineapple Street in BH for two years and the rent was $3,000 a month.
Brooklyn Heights is very expensive. I cannot imagine what the rental on a three bedroom apartment would be.
A young lady I used to work with is renting in Prospect Heights and she just had a baby.
I found this website very helpful.
www.streeteasy.com
Good luck with your search.
Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 10:36 AM
Many, many thanks to all for sharing your insights and advice. To answer your questions: -- we can do about 3500 and maybe stretch to 4 if we're not using a broker. My husband has to be there by 630, but won't be working nights.
Posted by: newtothis at May 16, 2008 8:17 PM
"Please, wall street people don't have evenings - they work. Never see their small children during the week. And the commute time home doesn't matter (even if they did have some evening time) because they take black cars home in the evening hours."
It's just as long if not longer to take a car home in the evening to Bay Ridge. Or whatever too-far location is being plugged. Plus Wall Streeters do not work nights.
The only Wall Streeters who don't see their families during the week are the ones who live way out. Thus the huge revival of prime Brooklyn neighborhoods - people want far less commute time nowdays.
Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 12:10 PM
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