crazy (literally) neighbors

Are you referring to me??? We are NOT crazy and we resent that comment. My son is just confused. Keep him out of it.

I'll see you at home.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 1:00 PM

call the police
likely they will visit and leave and nothing will change at all

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 1:06 PM

You have to do nothing, or be painfully direct with them, i.e., you have to confront them yourself. If they are bothering the rest of the coop, you can invoke whatever rules your proprietary lease has about noise, quality of life, etc... Also, tell them you're going to call the cops if they keep bothering you, and tell them that everyone notices how crazy they are acting, that it's not OK.

It's not going to be an easy conversation. Are there other units? Does anyone else notice? If not, then it's a harder conversation still.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:00 PM

All due respect to 2:00, who I think offers sound advice about invoking co-op rules and the provisions of your agreement, I would not in a confrontation with them mention suspected violence or in any way mention "craziness". Domestic violence situations are incredibly volatile and unpredictable, and you have no idea whether something you say will be used privately by the abuser against the victims in the household. I speak from experience with this.

Were I you, I would contact the Office of the Department for the Prevention of Domestic Violence at (518) 457-5987.

I would also call the police whenever an incident occurs. If you hear an argument going on, call the cops. They will likely send a patrol car and investigate. The more times you do this and the more reports they have on file, the more likely they are to launch a larger investigation. Encourage your other neighbors to do so, as well. I would also speak to other members of the co-op and the co-op board about scheduling a meeting to address your quality of life concerns. Again, at no time ought you mention your suspicions about violence in the home to these people - abusive homes are rife with denial, obfuscation, secrecy and chaos. Any attempt by any untrained professional to intervene will likely be met with hostility.

Best of luck.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:39 PM

What about neighbors that openly sell crack? There's a new flea market in Clinton Hill, not the one at the HS, no this one is right on Clifton place and Grand, where the drug dealers have decided to make an excuse for their obvious on the street dealings, now their "selling books" It's unbelievable. Did the cops give them this idea themselves? The same characters that you'd see slip a palm to a customer now have set up shop to "sell books." The crack heads have gotten so bold that they now pace back in forth waiting for them to show up if they're not there. Things are really getting creepy. I wonder if it's also signs of the economy.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:40 PM

2:39 is right...unlikely that you can get them to change and danegrous to try. Call the cops.

2:40 I was so hoping you were going to accuse the Flea od being a drug front. Call the cops.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:31 PM

Thanks for the help.

There's not a chance I can approach them directly. I would really fear for my life. I like to be as off the radar as possible where they're concerned. But the screaming and punching (?) or throwing large electronics around the home are really too much. I wake up listening to this stuff and just feel sick that someone is about to get killed.

I've been hestitant to call the cops bcs I worry somehow it will get back to me. I'm happy to tell them my name when I can, but is it on any paperwork? That these people would see? I'm not willing to open myself up to that.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:39 PM

To speak to your concerns, 5:39, my advice would be to call 911 and simply report the incident and tell them you fear for your own safety with these people. Tell them your safety will be threatened if these people become aware that you have made the report. It is likely that they have dealt with similar situations in the past and there are protocols in place. As for the call to the Office of the Department for the Prevention of Domestic Violence, reiterate the same to them, as well. Your safety is your top priority in all of this - it is very difficult to live next door to violence, but it is unwise to risk bodily harm under any but the most desperate circumstances. Risking your own safety should be your very last resort.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:55 PM

Do coop boards do ANYTHING??

This is why people don't want to invest in coops. They're totally dysfunctional. The board members only care about issues that affect them directly. Anybody who has a problem with another owner that doesn't affect the board members can go f*** themselves apparently. That is terrible.

Deliver a written letter to your coop board every single time you have a complaint about this. (Record the noise of the fights with a tape recorder). Tell the board you are not going to deal with this directly because you fear these people and they are violent. Tell the board to perform their responsibilities and stop this fighting or get rid of these people.

If the coop board doesn't do anything then get a lawyer to write a letter and threaten to sue them.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:58 PM

The advice to talk to them directly is ridiculously bad advice.

Heed your instincts about these people. It is very common for aggressive people with no anger management skills to start harrassing and bullying a neighbor who complains about them.

However for you to really remedy the situation permanently you will need to talk to somebody and not just anonymously. Go to the precinct and ask to talk to a detective (not some lower level person who merely fills out reports) about the whole situation. You will be able to contact that detective directly in the future whenever the fighting happens and maybe a more lasting solution can come out of that.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 6:07 PM

We had a similar situation in our previous co-op. Our neighbors would scream, yell, say horrible things to each other and their daughter. I didn't think violence was going to break out, but we were ready to call 911 if it did.

I'd first approach the board president, then the managing agent, then, if you don't feel like anything's being done, call the police. Unfortunately you're going to have to stick your neck out a little bit, but in the long run if you can get them to be civil or move out, you're being a good neighbor to everyone else in the building.

I wouldn't confront them directly in any case. I assume that others know about their fights, so they can't finger you for reporting them.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 6:15 PM

Chiming in one last time to support 6:07 and 6:15's advice, as well.

Again, truly best of luck.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 6:42 PM

If they have a child as you state call Child Services. They will respond.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 7:01 PM

I agree that it would be an unusual coop board that would do anything. I would ask yours, but if they didn't want to do anything (which they probably won't, from my experiences with coops) I wouldn't make a nuisance of myself with the coop by continuing to make complaints to them and threatening to sue them. It won't change their minds. And why should they act? It would be a long and expenseive process for the coop to evict them anyway, and the board members, like you, likely would be afraid to confront them.

If they won't help you, your best option is to move. And having it on record that there is a problem (and it will be on record in the meeting minutes if discussed at a board meeting, which minutes will be given to prospective purchasers of your apartment) will make it very hard for you to sell and move. So think about that before you even make a complaint, as it is very likely your coop won't act effectively anyway.

Actually, Pullman was evicted from his coop for making complaints about building servcices he wanted them to add, for annoying them, and for threatening to sue them, and maybe for suing them - I forget. The Pullman case created a new interpretation of the law - and it isn't a good precedent when you think about it - any coop an evict anyone now if they don't like your behavior and you irritate them - the court didn't decide that Pullman was irritating enough to evict - it ruled that the coop had the right to make the decision all on it's own. It will be interesting to see if this law stands if coops start evicting people for behavior less irritating than Pullman's. In your shoes, you want the coop to have the power; but as we've all seen coop boards that abuse their power, I'm not sure you want them to have the right to evict you (say, for being annoying by making many complaints and threatening to sue them) - as it stands after Pullman, they have that right.

And, though you didn't say if the "fighting" was physical or just yelling - do call the police if you fear someone is about to be harmed - that's just being a good person acting to protect someone in peril - but it won't necessarily help you to make a point of calling to report yelling just for the purposes of making a noise complaint. It isn't likely that you (or the police, or the coop) are actually going to be able to change the offending person's behavior.

In your shoes, I'd move. And I'd think about finding a house. (Though you could have the same problem in an attached rowhouse, with similar limited options, as well.)

Posted by: guest at May 27, 2008 11:32 AM