Clinton Hill:Lefferts Place okay to move to?

if you like the ghetto you wil love that area. just hide your ipod when you go outside and dont even think of leaving a car on the street.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:46 PM

check out Carroll Gardens, much nicer and safer

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:02 PM

I live two streets north on Gates Ave. I don't go to Lefferts just because there is no need but I can't imagine it is so bad... when Gates Ave, and the streets off it, are like a picture book and pretty safe.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:04 PM

While Carroll Gardens may be "nicer" and "safer" for some, sounds to me like you can't afford it. For many fine, solid, decent and hard working citizens, Lefferts Place is just fine. These are people who walk the local streets listening to their ipods and who park their cars on the block without incident.

If you read/listen to the news, you will discover that madams and pimps are running prostitution rings out of highly upscale apartment buildings in the toniest nabes of the city. Last I checked, I noticed that murders are occurring all over the 5 boroughs -- even Staten Island. However, the fact that you have to even ask the question suggests to me this isn't the right choice for you.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:00 PM

Which block on Lefferts Place? The 2 between St. James and Classon are good, the one between Classon and Franklin seems dicier. I am a single woman who has lived on Lefferts Place for 5+ years and have not had any problems. The 2 "good" blocks have an active block association and neighbors who keep each other apprised of what's going on. I use the Clinton-Washington station.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:02 PM

you can find a double homicide on any street in NYC, it's just luck of the draw, but apparently you are not from NYC, so I suggest you move to Hoboken or Murray Hill.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:16 PM

Here's some relevant info:

http://www.leffertsplace.org/

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:22 PM

all of brooklyn is double-homicide territory.
we like it here, but it isn't Geneva.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:28 PM

The teenagers who were shot were from and were on the block closer to st james when it happened. There's a church on the corner at grand that has a soup kitchen that serves the homeless who leave chicken bones and paper plates all over the street. Many of those homeless are in the area to make use of the methadone clinic around the corner on fulton.

It is a gorgeous little stretch of buildings, but those on this blog who refuse to acknowledge that clinton hill is more dangerous than other areas are lying to you. They regularly call anyone who posts the negatives here a racist. They say they've never been mugged and that muggings, break-ins, and murders happen everywhere. But the truth is CH is not as safe as other areas. That is why the rents are lower. They can deny it all they like, but you shouldn't move there if you do not want to risk it.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:48 PM

I happen to love that area, especially all the African shops around there. I live in Prospect Heights, yet I head over there every couple weeks. I have heard about crime there, but I have never seen it myself, though I'm usually not there after midnight or so.

If you want a neighborhood with a Marc Jacobs, it's probably not your place. About two or three years ago, I thought fancy restaurants would start moving in, but it never happened.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:02 PM

i used to live on lefferts place 5 years ago. i had a gorgeous apartment and the neighborhood was still up and coming. i never had any issues with crime besides my car getting broken into. i now live in cobble hill and my car still gets broken into. its a great neighborhood with some real gems for buildings.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:15 PM

I agree with 3:48 except for the "lower" rents (I don't know about that one). I've been in CH for 10 years and haven't been a victim of crime (knock knock) but I've seen my share of police activity and heard my share of stories. Afterall, it does border Bed Stuy.

And, with the economy receeding like it is, crime will inevitably go up. All those businesses that are allegedly popping up will receed as well. People aren't spending their stimulus checks on wine.

That said, it is not highly likely that you will be a victim of crime if you are cautious. But you won't feel as comfortable as you would in other nabes. I'm comfortable in CH but my wife isn't and wants out.

My advice to you would be to sacrifice space (rent that studio) for location and hope that the economy brings down rents (condo-to-rental conversions) and prices (maybe you'll be ready to buy then) so that you can upsize in the same nabe later.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:24 PM

this area is degentrifying. I would not live on that street even if it were half the price of C gardens. I knew somebody who lived on St. James and he said you could hear the drugdealers arguiing at night right outside of the window. I am talking about 5 feet from where he slept by the widow. If that is the way you want to live I wish you luck. I am not talking about weed dealers either! Hard drugs

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:29 PM

3:48 and 4:12: I agree with you that certain parts of Clinton Hill (i.e., the parts closest to Bed-Stuy on the "C" train) do have an "edge" or an unsafe feel. However, Clinton Hill, as a whole, does not have that same unsafe feel. The parts of Clinton Hill that are north of Gates Aveue and west of Grand Avenue (and especially the parts that are near to Pratt or the "G" train "Clinton-Washington Avenue" subway stop) seem to feel just as safe as Ft. Greene and Park Slope.

Additionally, those parts seem to have a pretty active street scene (i.e., cute restaurants, fun bars, trendy cafes and the like). The neighborhood seems a bit to diverse in look and in feel to peg it all as unsafe.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:52 PM

4:52 is correct that the G train side seems better than the C train side and the park slope/ft greene type restaurants and shops are more in that area. But that side is still definitely not as safe as FG or PS and there are definitely still some sketchy blocks there too.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 5:01 PM

There are good and bad people everywhere. Lefferts Place has mostly good, where as Park Slope Fort Greene and Carrol Gardens are full of bad, scary, unkempt hairy old lesbians and people from Minnesota.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 5:30 PM

I love the "I knew someone who lived on St James and he said you could hear drug dealers" sort of criticism, from someone who has never even checked out Clinton Hill. It's not a perfect neighborhood, but it's vibrant, diverse, and it feels very safe to me.

If you'd rather live in Park Slope, please do.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 5:37 PM

if you are white,look for another area,unless you want to get attacked.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 9:10 PM

original poster: where do you live now, and what are your experiences in cities?

what you can tolerate will depend on your nurturing.

I live in Carroll Gardens and I'm happy that I live in a neighborhood where I can blast my ipod and never think twice about even turning around to survey the area. And I pay a shitload more for that privilege. I probably wouldn't mind living in an area where I put the pod away before I surfaced from the subway at 3am, and that might be worth saving $500 bucks a month.

But to me, it's worth it to invest in safety. Sure, anything can happen anywhere, but percentages and rates of crime do matter. I'd toss the white pod headphones anyway, they suck and they scream at people to jack your shit, especially if you look like a hick.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 10:03 PM

Anyone who would ask a bunch of people that they have never met, where they should live is probably too dumb to move anywhere. Also, just so you know,"edge" and "unsafe" mean Black people(oohhh, scary)and since Black people have the ability to cross streets I guess that any area can be "edgy" at any given time.Brooklyn has Black people in all neighbourhoods, and it always will.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 10:48 PM

I wonder where you people come from? Worrying about some one jacking your ipod???

A gentrifying interloper (White or Black) HOPES someone would not test them. A real Brooklyn representative WISHES someone would.

Trust me, there's a BIG difference.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 11:05 PM

Actually 11:05, just the opposite is true. The gentrifying hipsters like to think they are cool enough to live in the "edgy" nabes. Those of us who are from several generations of brooklynites know it's idiotic not to recognize danger.

OP: check the brooklynian.com blog for actual accounts of how some break-ins and muggings went down. It's not just ipods being taken at 3am. It's people getting beaten to the ground in the afternoon.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 12:34 AM

My god, what has this board become. People with vested interests in sending renters to one neighborhood over another will actually troll the message boards to influence the tides of gentrification. It's gross.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 8:45 AM

I am a very middle aged woman whose son lives in that last block of Lefferts place closest to Franklin (technically bed sty I think) When he first moved it I was nervous. We live and he grew up an east coast city so it was not just total culture shock. I have just come to love his neighborhood and think it is mostly filled with a mix of people some with money and some without. I think a major fear on this site is of people without bucks. If a neighborhood is artistic poor than it seems it has many fewer negatives than a street that is working (or less) poor. The murders around Christmas were horrible but if you think living a mile away from them really makes you safer then i think you have a serious flaw in your vision of living in a city.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:01 AM

Well, I love my neighborhood and (maybe I’m just bias) but my block is my favorite block in my favorite neighborhood. And my neighbors are terrific. Oh- and Outpost is my favorite café hang out in all of Brooklyn.

I’ve been on lefferts for 5 years. Great people. It’s beautiful. A/C is really close. (oh-it’s like an extra two blocks to the Nostrand stop… I do that sometimes because that’s express and 3 stops to the city.

It’s weird… brooklynites never really know how to get from one neighborhood to the other… but… so you know… I go to prospect Park all the time… it’s a 5 minute bike ride and a 15 minute walk… Any of the north prospect heights places on Vanderbilt or Underhill are really close…. As is all of the North slope. So North 5th ave too… that’s also walking distance.

Your also abut a 15 minute walk from Atlantic terminal which I do sometimes on nice days or if I’m going to the upper east.

And if you drive or take cabs Classon Ave is a strait shot to the bridges and Williamsburg… and way way closer then the slope.

I find the services in the immediate area very functional. The Y on Bedford is the best gym I ever joined in Brooklyn. The local 24 hour deli guys are super cool and nice. The best deli café on Atlantic will deliver you a $2 egg and cheese sandwich in about 2.5 minutes. Jesse’s is my favorite nail place… there’s a post office right on fulton which is as terrible as any other branch but not worse. And the MET Super market is really practical and useful.

So I guess it’s about finding a neighborhood that meets your immediate needs and then one that you feel good in. For me… I like the vibe here… I like the influence of pratt… the eccentrics, the diversity… I like the way I still feel like I live in NY… I find my neighbors helpful in over the top ways when needed or necessary… but also respectful of my anonymity and distinctly not petty and controlling and nosey… and that’s my vibe… so that works for me.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:16 AM

you people who live in Clinton hill dont get it yet. it aint gonna happen in clinton Hill! you live in the ghetto

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:26 AM

5:30- will you marry me? Oh yeah… another great amenity in the neighborhood. Our residents have 78% better senses of humor. It’s a fact www.wherefunnypeoplelive.com.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:40 AM

To me Clinton Hill feels more Brooklyn and more New York than many other places. It is both urban and suburban, hipster and hip-hop, black and white, priviledged and poor, safe and edgy, trendy and hood. Unlike Park Slope or Carrol Garden, but much like Fort Greene and Prospect Heigths, it is hard to paint the neighborhood with one stroke of the brush because it has many different looks. The common thread to Clinton Hill is its maginificent brownstones, diverse residents, and its true feeling of community.

While Clinton Hill is not Park Slope, it is definitely not the "ghetto." Ghettos rarely have trendy cafes (i.e., Pillows, Frank White, Outpost, Brown Betty Cafe), Zagat highly rated restaurants (i.e., Locanda Vini e Olli, Luz, Chez Lola), fun bars (i.e., Ropes, Mirrors on Grand, Rustik, Reign Lounge) or funky shopping options (i.e., Dope Jams, Karen's Body Beautiful, RePop, Blue Bass Vintage).

The fact that there are so many new establishments and transplants from other parts of the city and country speak volumes to the neighborhood's charm and attraction.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 10:09 AM

Why are all you people insulting Clinton Hill?

With regards to crime, I was born in Brooklyn and have lived on St. James and Lefferts for the past three years. I've never been mugged, shot, harassed, etc. and I'm not the biggest white guy in the neighborhood. Then again, I think you need to use your street smarts. Crime happens all over New York and you just have to be aware of your surroundings. I've been harassed more while living in the East Village than in Brooklyn.

The only real crimes that you hear gentrifiers complaining about is some teenagers trying to steal an iPod. If you make yourself a mark then people are going to take advantage of you. This is nothing new to any neighborhood and while you could certainly argue that you should not have to live that way, as a New Yorker you should. Most likely you spend more time in other neighborhoods than your own and being cautious is always a good idea. There is some crime that happens in the day, but this is true all over the place.

With regards to drug dealers and your assorted thugs in the neighborhood, they really don't bother people unless you give them a reason to (ie making yourself an easy target, have a problem staring at them, etc.). It's pretty common sense though.

With regards to the hotel on Lefferts, it was closed by the police as they were running a prostitution ring out of there so if that does bother you, then you have your reason not to move in there.

The reason I like the neighborhood is that it's a nice reflection of New York City - people of multiple income levels living together in a mostly friendly environment. And there are people who actually live in Brooklyn and look out for trouble. But if you were looking for some safer and more vanilla options then, sure move to Carrol Gardens or Park Slope which is nicer, safer, whiter. But they also possess elements that made me eventually leave the East Village - a bunch of frat boys getting trashed watching football games, too many lame bars, and little respect for anyone who isn't trying to gentrify the neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 10:09 AM

10:09 is absolutely right. i live in Flatbush near the church ave stop on the Q. Now that IS a ghetto - no one could argue. when i'm finally willing to sacrfice a huge spacious apartment in order to live closer to nice restaurants and boutiques, i'll look to Clinton Hill. It would be a step up.

But just for the record, in all of 3 years living in Flatbush, I've never experienced crime first hand. no matter where you live, it's about being street smart. my current neighborhood is devoid of irritating yuppies wearing ipod headphones at 3am. my neighbors are curteous and hard-working adults. it's a place that is unconsciously communiy centered, not in the annoying coop/community garden way that you find in upscale BK hoods.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:18 PM

maraholly--look at bay rige.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:22 PM

Wow! Really Mara? You’re “blond”? Maybe that explains how it is possible that you could have “no idea” that asking if a neighborhood is ‘safe’ is a charged and obnoxious question… not to mention a totally transparent euphemism for asking about race.

But thanx for sending us your e harmony page. I have a much better understanding of your predicament now and in light of this new, really pertinent information about your hair color… (and your self-proclaimed hotness)… You shouldn’t move here. Myself I’m a fairly ordinary looking Brunette… so … I’m cool…

(Oh- and by the way… this blog gets more riled up and cantankerous over the validity of a price drop or an asking price then this.)

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:51 PM

My prediction: You're gonna die.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 10:36 PM

See. Like I said. People will resent you for being white and assume you have money and have taken property from someone who isn't who used to live there. CH is full of black people who have a chip on their shoulder and some white people who think themselves cool for living among them.

Clearly what 1:18 finds so annoying about community oriented headphone wearers she doesn't see in her ghetto nabe is that they are white.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 5:48 PM

To the original poster -- I agree with the poster above that Clinton Hill is not "ghetto" in any way; personally, I like the neighborhood but also have always felt that Lefferts Place is distinct from the rest of the neighborhood because it is on the east side of Fulton.

But that's not the question you were asking -- rather it is whether this specific _block_ on Lefferts has any problems. And every neighborhood has good and bad blocks (it's just a question of how good/bad and how few/many).

From your postings, it does not seem that you are deliberately looking for a housing situation in which you intentionally are the interloper or outsider challenging the status quo, so the number one priority should be whether you feel comfortable.

The best advice people I ever heard given to a new transplant from outside NYC is this: go to the neighborhood at 11 PM (perhaps with a friend or two), walk from the subway to the building you are thinking about, and judge for yourself whether you feel Ok.

If you feel safe, then ignore the people posting who want to turn your question into a race/gentrifier issue. If you don't feel safe, then that answers your question.

Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 10:18 AM