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May 30, 2008
C of O nightmare!
My grandfather and his brother bought two identical houses in the 1940s and they were always as long as I can remember (I was born in 1962) occupied by two families, ours upstairs and the other in the apt downstairs. We always paid taxes as a two family house. So everything was fine for sixty years until my grandmother who is 92 years old and getting to be a bad judge of character lately rented the apartment downstairs to bad tenants who refused to pay rent and damaged the apartment and called the building dept. and everyone else they could think of to create trouble. Anyhow, the building dept. discovered that the C of O on the house was for one family (It seems that my grandfathers brother changed the C of O on his identical next door house in the 1950s but for some reason my grandfather did not) and they sent my grandmother violation notices for illegal construction etc... She was recovering from a broken hip when the letters arrived so she missed the court dates and now the violations have climbed into potentially $15,000 worth of fines. I am her grandson and finally became aware of the issue and have started the process of seeing what can be done... I went to an architect who started to tell me that he "might" be able to halve the fine but that he would need to redo the blueprints and assuming the downstairs apartment is up to code he will "only" charge me between a low of $8,500 to a high of $15,000 to do the job. I was not happy with him and did not understand much of what he was saying. I may be naive but I feel it is very unfair of the city to hit my grandmother with such huge expenses for something pre-existing for over half a century. She has a hard enough time paying her taxes from the little money she gets. I don't know how we will raise the money for all this. Anyhow, does anyone at least know a competent and honest architect in Brooklyn who can solve this problem economically? Do I need a facilitator or will an architect be able to do everything? Sorry if I am still in the learning phase but I am very confused and inexperienced about all this.
Comments
Speaking as an architect I can tell you there is no way you are going to process an amended C of O for less than $10G in architect and expediter fees, unless you process the application yourself, in which case I wish you luck. Also, just because the homeowner is a 92 year old woman, and probably a lovely person, doesn't make her immune to the law. Get out of that mindset and deal with this situation realistically. And no I am not interested in taking on this case. The architect you have is behaving honestly and competently. Heaven forbid he should request a living wage. You are just in shock about how much you are going to have to spend. Good Morning!
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:15 AM
How is it unfair of the city to enforce the law? Maybe it was unfair of your family to illegally rent out an apartment in the building for 50 years. The world does not revolve around you.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:32 AM
I'm sorry to hear that you're having to deal with all of this. I think you will have to raise the money to change your C of O and digest your feelings about the whole mess.
Posted by: Rick at May 30, 2008 6:48 AM
On the bright side, your falily owns two houeses....
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 8:46 AM
On the bright side, your family owns two houeses....
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 8:47 AM
I have no idea what might be done to help you but I just wanted to point out how ridiculous the comments on the forum have become. aside from the fact that you guys respond like assholes you didn't even provide any helpful information. specifically the 'architect' at 615. i'm trying to figure out why it was necessary to go off about being immune to the law and adding that NO you won't take the job as if anyone asked your ass anyway. the same goes for 632, why would you even take the time to respond just to say something jerky like 'the world doesn't revolve around you'I don't even know this guy but I'm just fed up with the lack of help for people who have admitted their own ignorance. the man asked two very simple questions at the end and an 'architect' took the time to say everything except anything relevant. if you aren't offering anything helpful shut the hell up and leave the forum for people who need help and those willing to help them losers.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:28 AM
Bravo, 10.28, and let's not forget that they paid taxes on 2 family homes the whole time. So who have they been hurting, exactly?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:42 AM
I realize I am overreacting to this situation because of financial difficulties and perhaps I sound immature. Ignorance of the law is no excuse of course. If someone can just please direct me to an architect who is experienced and not the most expensive one in the city I would appreciate that. Also, if someone would tell me if I need the services of an expeditor to plead my case before the judge that would be greatly appreciated as well. I know nothing about amending a C of O but I do know that people of similar qualifications can often charge vastly different prices for the same services and in every profession there are competent and incompetent people. I suppose I gave too much detail above when all I am really asking is advice on how to find such a firm or person. Thanks, and sorry if I sounded like a cry baby...
Posted by: streaker at May 30, 2008 10:48 AM
10:28 you are so wrong. OP thinks the city is being unfair for enforcing the law. Unfair. That's their words. What a load. And if you can't make a post without using vulgar language multiple times please go post on howard stern.com.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:50 AM
If you are not doing any construction or renovation work, you might be better off trying to work directly with an expeditor. The expeditor will have a licensed architect do whatever needs to be done by an architect, which in your case sounds minimal. Search the archives for recommended expeditors. I have been working with Gustavo Singares -- 917 273-8962 -- to change my CofO, but i can't speak to whether he has an architect who can do what you need done. This route may be cheaper than working through an architect, but it's still going to cost thousands of dollars.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:58 AM
"(It seems that my grandfathers brother changed the C of O on his identical next door house in the 1950s but for some reason my grandfather did not)"
Your grandfathers brother had foresight. Your family has been collecting more in rent for 50 years than they have been paying in taxes. Time to pay the piper.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:50 AM
hi
while I don't have any suggestions - I do hope something works in your favor. I think you guys would have probably been able to get away with the current situation hadn't been for the horrible tenants that have since moved in and caused you heaps of trouble.
you don't want to mess with the DOB in terms of youe building
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:15 PM
Ignore the bitter jealous renter aholes here.
But the core of their advice is correct - do take care of this and stop focusing on whether it's fair or unfair. It also doesn't sound like you can expect to take care of this cheaply. You will still have plenty of equity in your house despite what you spend on this matter.
I agree with a couple others that the place to start is an Expeditor and they will have architects on staff. Google to find these kinds of firms in NYC, or look in archives here. Good luck.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:53 PM
Dear 10:28, this is 6:15. If you take the time to re-read my post, you will see that I offered very helpful advice. I just get annoyed when a homeowner thinks an architect is "incompetent" or "dishonest" because he or she has a better idea of the amount of work involved, and intends to charge accordingly.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 2:36 PM
If the architect wasn't able to clearly inpart info to you as a proposed client, then he or she is not a good architect. You are right to look elsewhere.
Meanwhile, contact your local assemblyman/councilman on your grandmother's behalf. This is the kind of thing that they can often do well. There may be services to which she is entitled. Usually, these offices have "case workers" who at the very least will get some of the fines waived for missing the court dates, etc due to illness.
Good luck!
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:25 PM
what you need to do is get an expeditor on board right away. they will be able to get those violations reduced dramatically. they will frequently also have architects that they work with on jobs like this where there is no design work involved and you need someone to just draw up the drawings and then sign and seal them. I have worked with greenlight expediting and they are very reliable and comparably inexpensive. there are loads of other expeditors who can help.
if you really want to save money and have time on your hands there are ways. you need to get the existing conditions drawn up. you could get that done by an architecture student looking to earn some money in their summer holidays or something. then you just pay the architect to review, comment, sign and seal. generally that is a $2,000 cost. you can file it yourself if you want to too. its not hard, just a bit time consuming and confusing at the beginning. but an expeditor could well save you enough money on violations to make it worth hiring them for that alone.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:53 PM
You will need the help of an expediter, as has been suggested already. The difference between legal two families and legal one families is relatively small with regard to code. Might be wise to consult a real estate attorney as well. Shoot us an email if you have trouble finding either and we'll hook you up with some trustworthy folks: info@housebywe.com
Posted by: housebywe at May 30, 2008 8:06 PM
It'll cost a minimum of 50k in architect's fees and construction costs to change the C of O, not to mention the fines.
The Building Department is very strict about C of O rules. Everything in your grandmother's house will be inspected and EVERYTHING has to conform to code for the C of O to be changed.
You're in for a much bigger ride than you seem to anticipate. Hiring an architect is just one small part of the process.
Posted by: guest at June 1, 2008 11:05 AM
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