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May 4, 2008
Buying a home not up to code
Dear Brownstoner,
We recently had an inspection on a 3 family home that we are about to go into contract on. There were many things that were issues that the seller says she will fix.
The biggest item is however that the plumbing and electrical was not done up to DOB code. The work however does function well and therefore the seller will not adjust price or fix.
The home is in a great location and there isn't anything close to the price and overall good condition.
Am I a fool to move forward with the purchase? I mean aren't 90% of brooklyn brownstones not up to code?
Thanks for your advice.
Comments
We to went into contract on a house that had many thing not up to code. From what the inspector & architects/contractors told me, it is indeed pretty typical that old brownstones are not up to code, unless they've had a major renovation sometime fairly recently. If you are planning to do a lot of renovation anyway, redoing the plumbing/electric is probably not such a big deal to do at the same time. However, if you have to go in and do all this work without having other reasons to do so, it could be a significant expense. You could try to negotiate down the final purchase price based on the inspection, though this depends in part on how the building was represented. If they claimed plumbing/eclectric was upgraded and it's not, you definitely should try to negotiate. If they did not, it's a harder sell, but you have nothing to lose by trying.
Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 11:48 PM
What are the main issues that are not up to code?? If they've used Romex instead of metal BX wiring, PVC drain in a 3 family??,
11:48 is right...it depends upon how it was represented and if it was not represented beforehand that some major (?) cose issues existed and only discoverable upon inspection then you have the ability to negotiate.
However, if you like everything else like you said (location, price) then ask your inspector/contractor for his best advice on the code issues
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 5, 2008 7:19 AM
Few if any older homes are up to code. Provided that it functions and its not a danger, you are in the same boat as 99% of other homeowners.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at May 5, 2008 9:15 AM
Is it an old house that hasn't been updated recently, or is it a newly renovated house in which the seller installed new plumbing and electrical without bothering to file or bring up to code. The former is just what you'd expect in buying an old house; if you ever do a major renovation, you may need to bring the whole house up to code at that time. The lack of current code compliance is already a factor in the price. If the latter, however, you should be concerned. If you are paying for a newly renovated house, you shouldn't have to put up with plumbing and electrical that is both illegal and not signed off. It's an indication that other corners may have been cut that won't be apparent for a while.
Posted by: slopefarm at May 5, 2008 9:50 AM
My inclination would be to get the purchase price adjusted and have the work done myself, so I'd know it was done right, than to leave it up to the seller to actually have it done before closing - you have no way of knowing how it was really done if the seller has it done for you, as this stuff is in the walls.
Then, if you've ascertained that it is safe (a big if for many of these houses, and you don't know that it is unsafe often until there's a fire), you can do the work over time as you decide to upgrade various things. Good luck.
Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 9:51 AM
Be thankful that you know going in... I found live switches and outlets buried in walls that were covered by new walls. I found electrical wiring that wasn't tied to anything but the main circuit in the basement on the second floor. The electricity in my house used to be a big, unsafe mess.
Posted by: vanburenproud at May 5, 2008 10:44 AM
i agree with PP's - I would ask for a price adjustment and do the work myself!
I own a 100 year old + house and time and time again there's always some worker who enters the scary basement and is like "oh this is unsafe or why did the previous owner do this or that?" and then the questions are always followed by this comment -"it's a brownstone, they all look like this and if you think yours is bad, you should see the other basments on your block"
so as said before 99% of the brownstones in the area are probably out of code!
Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 11:27 AM
Given the age of the wiring in the neighborhoods, and the ancient look of much of what I've seen, it is truly amazing that there aren't more electrical house fires. When there is one, it is often noted to be due to "faulty wiring."
Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 11:38 AM
Of course you shold buy the house! You said it yourself... it's a great house. I promise weather or not everything is up to code will never bother you once you are there.
it doesn't bother me and it seems a lot of other people.
and by the way built to code doesn't necessarily mean built well (and vice versa).
Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 4:30 PM
I guess the OP isn't going to provide any more info or answer questions posed by those who tried to help by posting...what an asshat!!!
As you say, you're just a fool feelyng.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 9:24 AM
Dear everyone thank you for your informative advice. The seller won't reduce price however is willing to bring in independent licensed electricans/plumbers to review all the work to make sure all is functioning and will give us visibility to work being done. We are going to go into contract but will make sure fixes are outline in the contract.
Essentially new electrical/plumbing work was done on the first, third and fourth floor where kitchen and bathrooms were added. This work was done out of code and not filed. The price is comparable to un-renovated homes in the area however it is somewhat renovated.
daveinbedstuy - not sure the details as the inspector didn't give us specifics however hopefully our next inspection with a electrican give us more details.
Posted by: feelyng at May 6, 2008 8:28 PM
the house will burn down. That'll be nice. Your basement will flood. that will be nice.
aren't you glad it's not up to code?
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 11:43 PM
I'm struggling with similar issues and finding it very hard to know how to negotiate. There is a ton of work that is altogether functional, but we *know* they never got permits for any of it. There are a few things that are seriously non-functional and we are trying to figure out how much we want to get estimates before we go into contract.
Posted by: amanda at May 7, 2008 11:54 AM
You should bring in your own licensed master plumber and electrician to review the work. If seller brings them in, it won't be an "independent" review. If you don't want to pay for that and this is the only concession the seller will give you (and you want to move forward) then have seller agree that you will get a written opinion from a licensed plumber or electrician. Of course, teh problem is, they won't be able to see the important work behind the walls.
Or, you can just take the risk. My point is, they are offering you a false sense of security. There is a chance that every thing will be fine, and there is a chance that they are pawning off bad work that you can't see. If you have the tolerance, and the wherewithal, to live with the risk, go for it, especially if you are not paying a renovation premium and don't mind the prospect of reopening a bunch of walls if you find out that there are real safety and quality issues. Just don't talk yourself into the notion that the risk isn't there just because seller's guy tells you so.
Posted by: slopefarm at May 8, 2008 10:18 AM
Dear All,
OP here. We have decided to go into contract and take the risk. We've set aside a fund to bring things up to code as issues arise.
Thanks for everyone's advice.
Brownstoner rocks!
Posted by: feelyng at May 9, 2008 6:00 PM
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