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March 4, 2008
Huge Toll Brothers Dev in Carrol Gardens
Toll Brothers plans to throw up a gigantic 12 luxury condo complex on two highly contaminated blocks next to the Gowanus Canal (on Bond from Carrol Street to 2nd Street).
The proposal is gigantic and quite extreme, and if realized, would cause tremendous
strain on the education system, transportation system, sewage system,
traffic flow, etc. in the neighborhood. It is also,
obviously, a severe environmental liability.
Can't find any photos on the web, but the flier they handed out at a community meeting this evening was crazy...
Comments
Why is the place you live not a strain on the schools or an environmental liability but any new development is?
Posted by: denton at March 4, 2008 6:09 AM
Are you serious? It is a massive 12 story development on 2 city blocks of previously uninhabited land. Get real.
Posted by: Winnie at March 4, 2008 7:23 AM
"if realized, would cause tremendous
strain on the education system, transportation system, sewage system,
traffic flow, etc. in the neighborhood. It is also, obviously, a severe environmental liability." I love the way this nimby makes all these conclusions based on nothing more than a flier handed out at a community meeting. The post is nothing more than a moronic and robotic response. Me see flier, flier say development, development equals bad, me no like, me post on internet. This nimby doesn't even realize how much attention this site has been paying to this proposal for the past week. What an asshat.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at March 4, 2008 7:29 AM
Agree with Brooklynnative. I didn't know one person could be such an expert in the education system, transportation, sewage and the environment. Just leave the decrepit Canal area as it is For sure it'll keep property values low.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 4, 2008 8:20 AM
I am totally for this project, but I dont think your flier should be cause for alarm.
This thing will not get built, at least not in its present proposal. There is no money, developers are reeling, the city will not undertake a massive clean-up project costing billions.
Maybe in 2o years, but definately not anytime soon.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 9:00 AM
How did gowanus become carrol (sic) gardens? I think maybe they need to develop this site. Maybe it's the toxic fumes wafting over from the canal that are responsible for the insane pricing decisions going on there lately.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 9:01 AM
Hey Winnie
New to the site?
BS has been talking (and taking photos) about this for months now.
Take a peruse through the site.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 9:12 AM
Toll Brothers is a well-capitalized company that is still both a buyer and seller of land. Their product, as much as people like to bash them as a McMansion stickbuilder, is fairly high quality. They are probably chomping at the bit to get this land (environmental issues aside) because it will mean a project in a location where demand is still relatively strong.
Toll brothers has close to $4 billion in equity and although their recent statements have been negative and their recent quarters have recorded record losses, there is probably not a better capitalized homebuilder today in the US. I wouldn't recommend anyone go out there and buy the stock just now but it'll be a strong survivor.
That said, yes, this project will take years to get off the ground.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 4, 2008 9:27 AM
"I wouldn't recommend anyone go out there and buy the stock just now but it'll be a strong survivor."
These are exactly the circumstances under which one should buy the stock.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 9:34 AM
You and I know that's true 9:34 but I don't want to be seen as giving financial advice to perfect strangers on this post. Recommending a lawyer for a real estate deal is one thing but financial advice is a separate matter.
That said, maybe Mr. B should open up a new tab at the top and we can all throw up our stock recommendations for comment. I think that'd be a real blast.
A real value in assets is why I bought in Bed Stuy
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 4, 2008 9:57 AM
Toll Brothers will be worthless once Whole Foods is [never] built.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 11:13 AM
Worthless as a company or as a development? What the hell does Whole Foods have to do with Toll Brothers????
Even Toll Brothers admits they don't yet own the property and that it will be a very long process b/c of the environmental remediation but your logic of one dependent upon the other is ridiculous. Please explain.
You nimbies that can never focus on the longer term big picture are why there are so many opportunities out there for people who have the vision to capitalize on it.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 4, 2008 11:36 AM
I hear Trump's coming to Gowanus too
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 11:55 AM
Aside from all the other protests concerning this development, i.e, transportation, infrastructure, etc., etc., ad nauseum, here's my main concern. Does ANYONE out there REALLY understand how SERIOUSLY toxic that land is? Do they REALLY know what they're getting into and how many BILLIONS of dollars it will cost and how many YEARS it will take to clean up? A clean-up can only benefit the community, and I'm all for it...but is anyone being OBJECTIVE and REALISTIC about this? Look at Whole Foods on 3rd Ave. It was supposed to have opened last year, and there's hardly a sign of life over there; and at this point, who knows if it ever will. I fear the same fate this development.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 11:56 AM
Listen - I live half a block from this potential development and would be THRILLED for it to happen. It would be GREAT for ps 32 which desperately needs an infusion of middle class kids and their parents right now no middle class parents sends their kids their after kindergarten, leading to over crowding in all all the other elementary schools in the area. So it actually would LESSEN crowding in the good schools to have yet another elementary option - in turn, it would raise the prop values for all the home s in the district. PLUS It would be amazing to have some green along the canal and amazing to have some stores down on Bond street. The only sad thing would be parkinng, as now I have the luxury of parking right in front of my house any time of the day. But hey, that can't be expected to last in NYC. Honestly I simply cannot imagine why anyone would be against this project.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 12:01 PM
can't wait to see the comments on 12:01's post!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at March 4, 2008 12:11 PM
11:56, I hear ya. But I bet Toll Bros has some pretty sophisticated people who have the answers to your questions.
Posted by: denton at March 4, 2008 3:16 PM
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