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February 25, 2008
Finding when and how a lot boundary changed
We're in the process of buying a frame house that's detatched on both sides. On on side, there is around 16-20 feet between my new house and the next, and this is split equally between my house and the neighbor- and fenced that way. Property Shark shows the lot as 28' wide which agrees with the current layout.
I just got the tax photo back from the municial records building so I could take a look for renovations, and to my surprise, in 1939 or so, the 16 foot side lot was totally part of my property, and it had on it a little sister building in the same style, with a shared stoop to mine. Maybe the original builder laid it out that way for family reasons, or for an investment? It's an amazing picture because the little house is like a dollhouse version of the bigger house that's still there.
So here's my question- how can I find out how and when the lot boundaries changed? Presumably at some point, the little building came down, and the two neighbors did something to break up the lot? Or the city did something? It clearly happened between 1940 and 2008- but I'm wondering if anyone out there has done similar research on their own lot?
Comments
might not matter if you can show a past record of a different lot line:
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/real_estate/adverse_possession.html
Posted by: guest at February 25, 2008 12:07 PM
What does ACRIS say? It may have more compelte records on line than Property Shark.
If not, then you will have a trip down to the county clerk's office to dig through old records.
Care to post the picture?
Posted by: guest at February 25, 2008 12:31 PM
I will post once I get to a scanner- just picked this pic up from Chambers Street this AM, so it's a new and exciting mystery.
Posted by: Park Place at February 25, 2008 1:00 PM
Thanks for the ACRIS suggestion- They have docs going back to 1969-
looks like there were three contiguous lots- the two I see in the picture, and the neighbors. At some point in 1969, the city took the middle tax lot on a lien. In the same year, the neighbor bought the lot and then split it equally between him and the the house I'm buying, and registered the lots going forward that way. No info on small and now split lot before the lien-
Posted by: Park Place at February 25, 2008 1:37 PM
To find this out, you will need to trace your deed history. ACRIS might not take you back far enough. You can trace the deeds back in the City's registers. Sounds like a previous owner subdivided the property. or perhaps the 16 foot lot was separately owned and the two neighbors bought the proeprty and split it. The registers for Brooklyn are in the Brooklyn municipal bldg on Joralemon.
Posted by: slopefarm at February 25, 2008 1:41 PM
Park Place -- my post and yours crossed paths. I see you got your answer, but you can follow my advice to trace the small lot back further.
Posted by: slopefarm at February 25, 2008 1:43 PM
You're all being very helpful- thanks. One other question to throw out-
The date that the city and that propertyshark have on the year the house was built seems very wrong-
I know that they are usually off because records were lost in fires- I'm guessing that the house was the first on the lot, and the records say 1910. I'm seeing obituaries that indicate people were occupying (and dying) in 1910 and before- Wondering which agency would have the actual paper that shows when the house was built?
Posted by: Park Place at February 25, 2008 2:09 PM
Finally an interesting topic. Please post the results of your research when you discover how this all came to be.
Posted by: guest at February 25, 2008 3:10 PM
call or go to the local surveyors office and get the actual tax maps and see what changes or what lot numbers your property came from. Thats the only way to do this.
Posted by: guest at February 25, 2008 4:02 PM
If your house is in a landmarked historic district, The LPC (Landmark Preservation Commission) may have the history of your house.
Posted by: guest at February 25, 2008 5:57 PM
Here is the image (cropped at bit as my scanner is less than 11/17)
Thanks for all your help so far-
It may be disapointing to some to see a humble woodframe, but I couldn't be more excited. I'm really loving the porch and picket fence!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2183/2293107000_42a44d618f.jpg?v=0
Posted by: Park Place at February 25, 2008 10:18 PM
Love the photo, especially the hat. My tax photo has a lady pushing this gigantic baby carriage and where we now have a tall street tree there used to be a light pole.
Posted by: guest at February 25, 2008 10:36 PM
as the previous post recomends: acris shows deeds for both properties. read the most recent first and then move backward.
one caveat:
if somebody else has built onto your lot and their construction can be proved to be in existence for 10 years or more (by tax map, signed/sealed surveys etc) it may not matter what the deed says: adverse possession.
what does your title survey show?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:06 AM
Again- Thanks to all for the feedback and help.
Let me clarify my intentions also- I'm not looking to get this info in order to try to 'take back' possession of the lot-- it's clear to me that at someo point someone else owned it, and lost it to the city due to a tax lien. I'm really just trying to now find the history of my new houses lost 'twin sister.' Today, there is no building standing on the lot at all. This makes the house sort of a rare thing- a freestanding woodframe on a very wide (28') lot.
Here's what I've found so far, by perusing ACRIS:
Sometime in the late 60s, the city took posession of the lot between my house and my neighbors. There is no record on ACRIS of who onwed the lot at that time. Presumably, it was already vacant and the house was not there. Since the tax picture was taken in 1940, that means that the building was lost sometime between 1940 and 1967.
Around the same time (1969), it looks like the house I'm buying was passed down one generation to another in the same family. The lot was listed as 23' wide at that point.
Meanwhile the neighbors two lots down were purchasing the empty lot from the city. Once they purchased the lot, the two neighbors each filed with the city to transfer 1/2 of the middle lot to the adjacent properties. From then on, the city records of sales list my lot as being 28' wide.
What's also interesting about the property today is that the fencing around the property reflects the old 23' boundaries. It's fairly modern and in OK condition. I would suspect that it was put in during the 50s or 60s. The middle lot that's now split has 60s style hurricane fencing around it, and then a third bit of hurricance fencing down the middle, suggesting that the neighbors at that time wanted to be very clear to the neighborhood that the lot now had split ownership. Odd that no one every mad the lot usable for either property!
I have yet to close on this property- so I'll be looking fwd to seeing what the professional title survey shows.
Posted by: Park Place at February 26, 2008 10:30 AM
Hi,
I bought a frame house in 2006 that we're in the process of renovating. There have been LOTS of (expensive!) surprises. I'd love to hear what you're planning and who you're using. We're actually in the process of looking for a new GC... Feel free to email me off line if you want to exchange notes. wfriedma@hunter.cuny.edu
Posted by: waf at April 1, 2008 2:10 PM
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