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February 28, 2008
DOB Stop Work Order - what to do?
I have been having an existing bathroom in my brownstone's English basement renovated. it was in really bad shape when I bought the place 6 months ago, so effectively everything in it is new at this point. It's about 90% completed right now. Apparently one of my neighbors decided that I was having work done without permits, and snitched to the DoB about 3 months ago. The inspector came by the other day and issued a stop work order. I am confused because I didn't think renoavations to an existing bathroom required permits. Anyone have thoughts on what I should do next? How do I prove that the bathroom isn't new?
Comments
First of all egg his house and key his car
Posted by: guest at February 28, 2008 6:11 PM
I know this kid Sal...and the chinese mafia...lol
Posted by: dssguy99 at February 28, 2008 6:14 PM
New or not new.....Unless, it's cosmetic, you need a permit. If you are replacing a toilet, sink, tub, shower; even without moving location, technically you need a permit.
In an English basement, if the space is not more than 50% above grade (sidewalk). You can not have a 3-fixture bathroom; meaning, you can only have a toilet and sink.
So, it's not about proving that the bathroom is existing or not. Now, it's about what are you allowed to do there.
Get yourself an architect, who'll clean all this up for you.
And people...the DOB is on a war path. DO NOT...DO NOT do anything with out a permit. and if you have a permit and it's expired (Oooopps, forgot to re-new it) and you get busted, expect to pay hefty fines.
Posted by: guest at February 28, 2008 7:04 PM
You are an idiot for not doing your full research. The contractor should be sued for not informing you of the correct procedure. Too bad for you. Asshole.
Posted by: guest at February 28, 2008 8:37 PM
Homeowner's Night
Every Tuesday in all Borough Offices
Are you looking to renovate your home? If you intend to do work on your home or are in the process of renovating, we invite you to come to our Homeowner's Night. Every Tuesday, the Buildings Department opens its doors exclusively for homeowners in all five boroughs from 4pm to 5:30pm. During this time, staff is available to provide homeowners with one-on-one assistance.
Posted by: guest at February 28, 2008 9:25 PM
Not completely true that you can't have a 3 fixture bathroom in an english basement. A lot of old houses had such bathrooms grandfathered in.
Posted by: guest at February 29, 2008 9:50 AM
You should have slipped the DOB some money.
Posted by: guest at February 29, 2008 10:07 AM
7:04, I just went to the DOB website, which states new toilet/sink/etc doesn't require a permit. Permit is just required if MOVING them.
That aside, the DOB requirements are confusing and a total annoyance to try to navigate. Now that OP is far enough down the road that a stop work order is in effect, I think it would absolutely be worth it to hire an expert (sorry, I don't have one to recommend).
Good luck.
Posted by: curiositykilledthecat at February 29, 2008 11:13 AM
Geekspice, there must be something else to the story. The Dept of Buildings would not issue an ECB violation ticket if all you are doing is replacing fixtures on their existing roughings. Filings are required for new fixtures (or also for moving existing fixtures so that their rough plumbing has to be moved also), not replacements.
Also -- your ECB ticket describes what to do next. Halfway down the ticket there is a box called "Remedy" where the inspector describes what the ECB court will require to satisfy the condition at your hearing. Are you saying your inspector left this section blank?
What did the inspector note under "Violating Conditions Observed"?
Posted by: Smokychimp at February 29, 2008 12:41 PM
Looks like Guest 8:47 is your informant. Find out his ISP address and hire someone to completely shut down his system and then find out where he lives and egg his house...twice.
Posted by: guest at February 29, 2008 2:10 PM
I agree, burn down your neighbors' homes.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at February 29, 2008 5:38 PM
Also, my newly acquired architect doesn't agree with the previous poster's opinion - apparently I can have a 3pc bathroom on this level if something called a vent pipe (???) is done properly (but don't ask me what that means, I probably didn't even repeat it correctly)- just in case anyone else was taking that as gospel.
Posted by: geekspice at March 2, 2008 4:21 PM
That's weird, my first post appeared and then disappeared. In answer to Smokychimp's question - the Violating Conditions were that a new 3 pc bathroom had been installed, and yes, the Remedy section was left blank. And in response to the oh-so-helpful blame-the-victim posters - I wasn't home when the inspector turned up, and apparently he just walked right into the basement.
Posted by: geekspice at March 2, 2008 4:25 PM
i have a question for 7:04 - i heard you can get medical exceptions in some cases - for example, my neighbor's limestone has (according to him) a legal shower in the basement, which was allowed because the previous owner had 2 slipped disks and it was dangerous for him to step into a tub. anybody know if those kind of exceptions are apocryphal?
Posted by: guest at March 2, 2008 4:29 PM
Full bathrooms are allowed in a basement. The DoB doesn't consider a category of English basement -- a lower floor below grade is considered either a basement (floor level 4' below surveyed grade or higher) or a cellar (lower than that). 3 piece bathrooms are not allowed in a cellar configuration, so this would depend on demonstrating the basement is a basement through an existing C of O record or a survey that could show the room less than 4' below the sidewalk grade.
A medical exemption would be difficult to use as an argument for a 3 piece bath in a cellar, since no "habitable" rooms are allowed on a cellar level.
Posted by: Smokychimp at March 2, 2008 11:04 PM
Thank you for the helpful comment, Smokychimp. The floor of the basement is only about 2' below grade, so I guess that explains why the architect says it will be OK. But I still don't understand why we have to file plans at all when all we are doing is retiling and replacing existing fixtures. I guess I may never get an answer to that question....
Posted by: geekspice at March 3, 2008 3:38 PM
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