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February 5, 2008
clinton hill/park slope
am thinking of moving to clinton hill or park slope. clinton hill costs less, but park slope is more of an established hood. am also concerned about safety in clinton hill- want to be near the c train but it seems a little dicey around there at night. any thoughts would be appreciated. thanks.
Comments
Take the train to the C stop after work a few times and see what it's like. You will find yourself surrounded by people who have moved in recently. People who paid $1-2+ mill. to buy their houses there. See if you feel safe among them.
There will be many responses here saying it's perfectly safe and if you say otherwise you must be racist. However, if you go and read the Clintonhillblog, there's a post about a guy who got beaten up by a group of teens for no reason in the last week. I also read recently on that or another blog about people actually shitting on the street and on the steps of the C train station. Not scary, but eeeww. Several comments from people who had witnessed the same thing in the neighborhood. Amazing what you get for a few $M these days.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 11:00 AM
Two friends of mine (both GUYS over 6'4") were jumped by groups of teenagers walking (not late) home from the subway stop in Clinton Hill this past year.
Freaks me out.
Neither incident was very late at night, either. One around 8pm, another around 10.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 11:18 AM
The neighborhoods are very different in terms of economic diversity and safety. I think you should just go with your gut on this one. I've lived in Clinton Hill and never been mugged or attacked there (have been burglarized once), and I did have things thrown at me on Fifth Avenue in the Slope (was an anti-gay attack and was eight years ago, however). Wander around Clinton Hill at night. Myrtle Avenue will probably feel Fifth Avenue-esque to you, while Fulton continues to be the pits. In terms of neighborhood feel and presentation, it seems to me that Clinton Hill and Park Slope are a world apart. Seems to me you can check the archives for reems of pugnacious threads comparing the two neighborhoods. I don't think they are alike at all, and often those comfortable in Clinton Hill would feel claustrophobic in Park Slope, while Park Slopers seem to focus most, on well, the very reasonable concerns about schools, safety, and established ammenities. But me, I couldn't afford either neighborhood if I were buying now!
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at February 5, 2008 11:51 AM
i lived in Park Slope for a few years before buying a condo in Clinton Hill in the middle of last year. While I miss the amenities in PS (namely, a decent supermarket), I love my new nabe. It's such a thrill to live in a neighborhood and actually be a tiny part of its renaissance. Slowly but surely, there are better services coming to the district (several higher-end grocery shops have opened for business in neighboring Forte Greene), and I'm sure it's only a matter of time that the growth and prosperity that now characterize Myrtle and DeKalb Aves spill over onto Fulton Street.
I for one have never felt unsafe in CH. I walk to and from my apartment (also near the C and G trains) on my own at all hours, and I've never been so much as hassled. (I'm a 33 year old female.) As for the string of muggings that have been posted on the local blogs: that truly sucks for the vics, but don't let fear start dictating where you will and will not live. It's plain unhealthy. Come visit CH at different hours of the day/evening, on weekdays and weekends, and see how you feel.
Posted by: nellymikhaiel at February 5, 2008 12:09 PM
Make sure you check out Myrtle at night.
I agree with the above posters for the most part, but I do not at all agree that Myrtle feels like 5th Avenue. Not even a little bit.
Murder Avenue is still rater dicey at night...especially near the projects.
5th Avenue was scary 8 years ago, but it's now no more scary than lower 5th avenue in Manhattan.
The primary difference when it comes to day to day life is that Park Slope has everything. All the services you could need. Clinton Hill has them in nearby neighborhooods, but you also pay much less for Clinton Hill.
Check em out. They are all great.
I also reccommend Prospect Heights, which is basically a cross between the two neighborhoods.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 12:14 PM
Would also recommend PH (although I'm a bit biased as I live there); still walkable to the C train but you also have the 2/3 and the Q/B nearby.
Posted by: MsBrooklyn at February 5, 2008 12:18 PM
I 'third' the suggestion that you consider Prospect Heights. (I bid on a place there during my apartment hunt, but lost out.) It's a great neighborhood, and I concur with 12:14's statement that it's basically a cross between the two neighborhoods (PS and CH). Take a stroll along Vanderbilt Ave - there's some great pubs, restaurants, and other good services in place (or setting up shop). The side streets are really lovely, too (although the buildings start looking in more need of TLC once you cross Washington Ave).
Posted by: nellymikhaiel at February 5, 2008 2:13 PM
I currently live in park slope by the B/Q and have looked in clinton hill but relying on the G just bums me out. Ive had friends who live in the area and I like it I just can commit to dealing with the train situation. Either way both are nice.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:23 PM
omg! If people are worried about crime in clinton Hill, why on earth would you recommend prospect heights? take a few days to read the "muggings" threads on the PH brooklynian boards.
Clinton Hill and Fort Greene are great places to live, but very different to Park slope. If you like park slope, go there. If not, go to Clinton Hill. It isnt useful to compare the two.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:23 PM
If you'd like 3:23, I'm more than happy to attach some crime stats for you to show that Prospect Heights (while having crime, of course) is FAR safer than Clinton Hill.
I see no problem with comparing neighborhoods. I bet the original poster has found this thread quite helpful, in fact.
Minus your post.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:29 PM
south south slope
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:37 PM
I moved to Clinton Hill from Park Slope. Both are great hoods. PS has more amenities. I've lived in CH for 6 years and never had a problem on Myrtle or anywhere else.
What's with PH people who show up in every single thread on this board huh...low self-esteem?
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:41 PM
no to clinton hill
no to prospect heights if you are at all freaked out about safety. i lived in PH for 2 years and couldn't wait to get out.
what about williamsburg? has amenities and prime burg is very safe!
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:46 PM
i'm 3:29 and i don't live in prospect heights, if that's what you are referring to, 3:41.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:46 PM
Williamsburg is the ugliest hood in Brooklyn.
And way too expensive for what it is.
Everything cool is leaving Williamsburg for the Gowanus, anyway.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:47 PM
I just moved from Park Slope to CH hill and am very happy that I moved. I am 29 years old, white and single and felt very out of place in Park Slope - its not very exciting unless you have kids or own a house. Very white and suburban feeling. CH is different. Less foot traffic, less amendities etc but the neighborhood is super diverse and the homes are beautiful. For me working in mid town its also a much better location. I can be at work in 30 mins and am also close to Fort Green and Williamsburg. That being said, let me tell you that I am currently doing my grocery shopping at Whole Foods Union Square and then lugging it back to CH. It will take 2-3 years for it to have the kind of amendities as PS.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 3:58 PM
3:29, please, oh pretty please, will you pull out the crime stats? Give detail about the TYPES of crimes too while you're at it.
And then explain why all the PH folks are obssessed with crime on brooklyian, to the point that they even devised a very nice "mugging map".
I like PH, but people petrified about crime should not be told to go to PH over clinton Hill/Fort Greene.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 4:07 PM
With this recession and the stock market tumbling 400 points today, try 10 years, 3:58.
And by the way I am also a young, single male and I LOVE Park Slope. Wouldn't want to live anywhere else, in fact. All my neighbors are young, single and work in creative fields. Two of them just moved into the building FROM Clinton Hill because one was robbed outside the subway.
It is a myth that Park Slope is all families. It is actually only 25% married with kids, if you look at the ACTUAL data from the Census.
Over 50% of Park Slope are singles, so the reasons you felt out of place, 3:58 must be more personal.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 4:09 PM
Crime Stats for Clinton Hill (443 total since Jan. 1):
http://nyc.everyblock.com/crime/locations/neighborhoods/clinton-hill/
And total crimes for Prospect Heights (347 total since Jan. 1):
http://nyc.everyblock.com/crime/locations/neighborhoods/prospect-heights/
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 4:17 PM
park slope is filled with singles. I really see very little differnce among the brownstone neighborhoods of brooklyn outside of Bed Stuy and Crown Heights.
All are priced around the same and filled with the same people. The whites in clinton hill are pushing out the black families and in park slope the whites are pushing out the puerto ricans. Same shit just a few blocks away.
park slope has a shitload more useless stores however.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 4:42 PM
park slope has pretty great restaurants and REALLY great shops with a new one opening practically every other day.
you just have to take a walk around these places and get a feel for what's important to you.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 4:48 PM
move somewhere in Gowanus. All the cool shit is opening there. And you have water access!!!
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 4:54 PM
hah! Water access. That's a good one. Funniest post so far on this thread.
For you betting types, what’s the over-under on the date the first new condo in Gowanus uses "water access" as a selling line?!
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:01 PM
who cares about the water access, 5:01.
gowanus has some really amazing stuff opening up. why would you denounce that?
if your self esteem is anything like your comment, you need some help.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:04 PM
Personally, I find Park Slope way scarier than Clinton Hill.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:12 PM
Anyone who finds Park Slope scary does not belong in New York City.
Period.
You might want to give Dayton, Ohio another shot...
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:17 PM
My feces have water access to Gowanus when it rains hard.
It's totally awesome for my turds.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:17 PM
i thought my post was pro-gowanus?
i love it over there
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:27 PM
im sure the person scared of park slope is making a joke about being scared of white people or something silly.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:28 PM
So how do you explain all the turds walking around Park Slope?
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:29 PM
Jesus, I can't believe I'm gonna engage on this thread--but in the hope that the OP was asking sincerely:
Unless you're the biggest mark in the world, or very, very nervous, crime is all but a non-issue in Clinton Hill and Park Slope. Please. You can get mugged anywhere in NYC, and whatever difference you dredge up in the crime stats between CH and Park Slope will be a rounding error. Yeah, CH has some projects, but they're not that bad--I walk by them all the time and never get bothered. CH also has a really healthy street life, with pedestrians around at all hours. Meanwhile, muggers like to mug wealthy people, and muggers can take the subway; people get attacked in PS, too. Both neighborhoods are GREAT. As is Prospect Heights.
Here's the way to look at it, IMO: Choose Park Slope if you want tons of restaurants and services, access to the big park, and like a more bustling, almost Manhattanesque vibe--and don't mind a little congestion and much higher prices. Choose Clinton Hill/Fort Greene if you're more into a more artsy, literary, bohemian crowd, if you dig French people, and if the ever-growing number of restaurants, wine shops, etc. is good enough for ya. Personally, I lack for almost nothing in CH.
Also, WTF was that crack about Myrtle Ave being so dangerous? Did you write that post in 1986? Myrtle is booming. I walk Myrtle at all hours with no issues at all.
And while I hope race wasn't the main undercurrent, here, I'm sure it was part of it. So for the record, I'm a 42-year-old white guy, and I love my community and my neighbors. Happy as a clam, here. Also: GO OBAMA!
Posted by: Rehab at February 5, 2008 5:33 PM
Water access will be worthless once...
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:36 PM
once ... Whole Foods is (never)built.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:52 PM
once whole foods is built, the gowanus and park slope will double in value.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:54 PM
fort greene is no cheaper than Park slope.
artsy, literary, bohemian crowd?
I walk between park slope and fort greene all the time and there is little difference between the two.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 6:12 PM
Both Fort Greene/Clinton Hill (which are tiny, connected, and inseparable) and Park Slope are artsy, literary, and bohemian-ish. But the Slope is richer, whiter, and more lawyered-up and hedge-fundoided than Ft. Greenel. Also, Clinton Hill contains a 5,000-student art school. Artsy--see?
Also, 6:12, you, mon ami, are high.Ft. Greene is absolutely cheaper than PS--it ain't cheap, but it's cheapER.
Posted by: Rehab at February 5, 2008 6:31 PM
5:17 is right. 5:12 doesn't belong in NYC. Along with ohio, 5:12 should also want to look into living in kansas.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 7:35 PM
Their are no minorities in PS. It's all freakin white!
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 7:37 PM
expect for all the puerto ricans.
also south park slope is way cheaper than fort greene.
Posted by: Santa at February 5, 2008 8:00 PM
6:31.
I guess I live in the northern section of park slope which has a great mix of people very similar to fort greene but as someone said there are more puerto ricans in the northern area around 5th and 4th ave.
also most of those pratt students live in bed stuy. Who can afford fort greene or clinton hill when in college?
Posted by: Santa at February 5, 2008 8:06 PM
the puerto ricans are all way down in south slope/sunset park.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 8:32 PM
What separates Fort Greene from Clinton Hill is about a million dollars per house, the BAM cultural district and Fort Greene Park.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 9:00 PM
there are quite a few puerto ricans around the top northern area of park slope.
also apparently around 26% of the residence of zip code 11215 are Hispanic.
most of the residence of sunset park are recent immigrants from mexico. Not very many puerto ricans.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 9:01 PM
My two cents: I am a thirty-something female (white, for what it's worth). My spouse and I have owned a brownstone in Clinton Hill for going on four years, having previously lived in Brooklyn Heights. We are both 'professionals' who work long hours in Manhattan. We generally both take the subway to work.
With that said, more than a few things from this thread are worth addressing:
(1) There absolutely is subway access in Clinton Hill - I live about 6 minutes walking from the C and I'd say about 4 from the G (and the same minute walk to the two grocery stores we use for staples - the Associated on Waverly and Met on Fulton); it on average takes me approx 40 minutes to get to my Midtown office, door to door.
(2) There are no projects in Clinton Hill (East side of Vanderbilt to Classon; Atlantic to Park). None, zippo, nada. The projects are in Ft. Greene (but really, who cares since they are all over Brooklyn). There is Mitchell Lama housing on St. James -that is affordable housing, not projects.
(3) I have never seen roaming gangs of youths looking to beat people up and steal their money and prized possessions.
(4) Likewise, I have never seen poo on the C train or G train platform (or stairs for that matter!) To be honest though, I wouldn't be surprised if that did happen, given that we're in a city. And as I said above, I have been taking those trains daily for FOUR years. Likewise, I have never seen anyone use my street as a toilet.
(5) My neighbors are the most wonderully diverse and hospitable group of people I could envisage - comprised of older (mostly black) fixtures who have lived in the neighborhood forever, along with younger (white and black) types with or without kids, mixed with Pratt students who rent.
(6) The neighborhood is quieter than Ft. Greene because, apart from Fulton, it does not have the same commercial zoning. Personally, I prefer that, as I'd rather be on a street with families and neighbors who take pride in their homes and community - the type who volunteer to move your car for street cleaning - than next to a bar. Personal preference.
(7) I am not trying to compare my neighborhood to Park Slope, which is a lovely neighborhood. What I am trying to do is dispel misguided statements that may prejudge your, or other people's, view of the neighborhood I've grown to love. Come over and walk around. Say hi to someone on the street - you'll be surprised at their warm response, as it's what we do around here.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 9:37 PM
9:37 - Myrtle is in Clinton Hill. Also Grand Ave strip.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at February 5, 2008 10:07 PM
9:37 here - great point (was misguidedly thinking more about DeKalb and Lafayette in Ft. Greene and other random restaurants that are on residential streets).
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 10:14 PM
Thanks, 9:37, for your post. We're head over heels for the neighborhood too. Appreciate you articulating its positives so well.
Posted by: Rehab at February 6, 2008 12:29 AM
the houses in clinton hill are also pretty
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 8:18 AM
Oh please stop with the "no projects, only Mitchell Lama housing." That statement sums up the fact that Clinton Hill and Park Slope are now sadly the same place. Both filled with the same fucktards who refuse to admit that they have projects and both think their shit smells like roses.
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 9:41 AM
All the snarking back and forth about these neighborhoods makes me realize they're just another way for people to accessorize. Thanks to the few people who just gave an honest take on how they see the neighborhoods, without derision.
There are pluses and minuses to both, good people and not so good people in both, and there's always an inherent risk involved with living anywhere in New York. Neither place is Compton, but neither place is Walla Walla. Figure out your price range. Figure out how you would get from each neighborhood to all the places you need to go. Go visit each neighborhood a time or two for a good couple hours, talk to a few people, look around and see if you like what you see and hear and if you feel comfortable. Then make your decision. And then ignore anyone who would tell you what kind of person you must be for picking your new neighborhood.
Posted by: GoGoMrPoPo at February 6, 2008 10:20 AM
I currently rent in Fort Greene and love it, my wife and I are trying to buy an apartment and unfortunately cannot afford Fort Greene. We have been looking in Clinton Hill. While at the moment we can find something we can afford there, give it a couple years and then we couldn't afford there either. Comparing Clinton Hill with Park Slope is not even in the same realm. If you want every amenity on the planet and can afford Park Slope go there. If you need a place to live in a nice but yet still up and coming neighborhood (in terms of retail) then Clinton Hill is a good bet. As far as transportation, I currently live in central Fort Greene across from the park, the apt. we are looking at adds seven minutes to the walk to Atlantic Station or the C at Lafayette /South Oxford. Does Park Slope have less crime? Yes.. But add another couple hundred thousand to the price tag. That said, both places are nice.
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 10:33 AM
thanks so much for all the input. it really has been helpful.
Posted by: evillager at February 6, 2008 10:44 AM
If you're a pansy and have no soul, go to Park Slope. If you wanna live in a vibrant, multicultural Brooklyn neighborhood go to the Hill. So what if you get knocked around a bit.
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 11:03 AM
I would hardly call lots of black people and a few rich white people "multicultural"
but whatever
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 11:59 AM
The average income of Clinton Hill is less than 20,000 a year.
Thank you, 11:59.
Some people in this city consider diversity, 80% black and 20% white, even though the actual country is the exact opposite of that.
It's weird. I never get that. Park Slope actually best represents the overall diverse population of the U.S. better than most neighborhoods in NYC....
The U.S. is only 12% black....not 80% so how is Clinton Hill diverse???
It's predominently black.
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 12:19 PM
if you want multicultural why are you moving anywhere in brownstone brooklyn. All of them are pretty bland.
Sunset park trumps them all if you want a wide range of people
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 12:27 PM
Concerning the racial breakdown of Ft. Greene/Clinton Hill, I don't give a shit what the percentages are. It's a great mix of people of all kinds, and those of you who make up these numbers and toss them around here are, well, assholes. Glad you don't like my hood, because that hopefully means you'll never move here. :)
Also, as clearly articulated above, there are no "projects" in Clinton Hill at all--but who cares, since there are projects and slums all over Brooklyn and Manhattan (Chelsea, much?). Besides, while projects obviously are failed attempts at providing viable affordable housing and are bad for neighborhoods, they are hardly the sole source of crime in NYC.
Posted by: Rehab at February 6, 2008 12:39 PM
no one is bashing clinton hill. They are just pointing out its silly to say park slope is not diverse and clinton hill is.
because its not correct
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 12:53 PM
agree, 12:53.
clinton hill is considered diverse maybe compared to inner city birmingham alabama or somalia, but if we are talking the united states of america, clinton hill is NOT diverse.
it is a lovely, mostly black neighborhood.
with some rich white people.
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 12:55 PM
Actually, plenty of people are bashing both Clinton Hill and Park Slope here. But we can take it.
Agreed that it would be silly to say Park Slope is not diverse and Clinton HIll is. I didn't say that. They both are, of course. Of course, there are differences (see above).
There are rich and poor blacks and whites in both hoods. So what? They're both great nabes.
Posted by: Rehab at February 6, 2008 1:45 PM
agreed
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 2:46 PM
can't we all just get along?
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 2:52 PM
They are not both great nabes! Park Slope is a horrible, horrible place and people should no this. Clinton Hill is pretty cool though.
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 8:31 PM
no what?
Posted by: Santa at February 6, 2008 8:38 PM
Ok while both CH and PS and Ft Greene are great, I have been living in PS for more than three years and I was attacked and beaten unconcious by 4 kids on my way home about 3 months ago, was in the hospital for two days and went through massive surgery to recover. I am a normal hipster guy in my 30's, single, alert and never saw it coming! I have been suffering for months now and because of my status as a freelancer all I worked for in my life has been taken from me, I am broke, couldn't work, and will most likely soon have to move to a shelter or file for bankruptcy because my savings to buy are gone and I have no family and no one to turn to. Be careful anywhere you move! Rich PS = target to get robbed! And I wasn't even taken for that much!
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 1:10 AM
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