Forum
« Contact info for Chris Marcoux? Turning a window into a door »
February 5, 2008
building over an air shaft
Hi, We would like to possibly build out over our building's airshaft to add a utility closet and laundry. We're on the 2nd floor so there is no rough-in floor. But, the wall is a shared wall with the bathroom so we at least know there are some plumbing lines nearby. I know this is possible, but can't begin to guess on what it would cost how it would work. We'd need to build a ceiling too. And what would the floor actually sit on?? Should we try to find an architect since some structural would be necessary? Overall, it is a fairly small space (~4'x4') so would it really be worth all the money and effort? Has anyone done this before?
Thanks!
Comments
I had this done in my home and opened up the space which is now an alcove in the kitchen where the refrigerator is placed. You definitely do not need an architect. A good contractor and plumber will be able to handle this correctly.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 5:44 PM
Yes it can be done. Ultimately we decided not to do this and use our shaft to run various ducting/plumbing work. But Ive seen it done in other homes as part of larger renovations.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at February 5, 2008 5:53 PM
You can do anything, but that won't make it legal. Building in your air shaft without a building permit and approved plans is clearly illegal. Proceed at your own risk.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 6:00 PM
6:00, what do you NOT need a permit for? Seems like anything proposed here by anyone is met with a warning to pay one pro to plan it and another to do it. I'm not saying your wrong. I'm just wondering where thee limit is?
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 6:11 PM
Whoa-- you want to do what? You have fricking got to be kidding. Am I understanding you?
You want to block an airshaft to make a closet? On just the second floor of a building? You want to cantilever out from your joists to make a floor, building exterior walls and a roof? Is this your plan?
Have you asked the people on the first floor, who probably appreciate the modest light and air that reach their windows through that airshaft? Are there next-door neighbors also using the airshaft?
If I am understanding you correctly, this can't possibly be legal, and sounds like the crazy idea of the year, IMO.
Posted by: Rehab at February 5, 2008 6:12 PM
Of COURSE you need a building permit for what basically amounts to an addition to your house! Unfortunately, you won't get one, because blocking an airshaft has got to be the most obvious code violation ever dreamed up by anybody.
On what you need permits for: Look it up. New York City Department of Buildings. They have a website.
Posted by: Rehab at February 5, 2008 6:14 PM
Is this a house or an apt. building?
-Apt. building, you'll have to go to the co-op board and I doubt they will approve this.
-House - These air shafts were provided for the bathrooms that adjointed. You can most def. close this up, provided that you provide ventilation for that bathroom.
Cost - Get a contractor to give you an estimate. It's free.
YES!!! YES!!!! you have to file this work with the DOB. Not only will you need an architect, but a structural engineer. You will need to add beams to support the new floor.
You have to file with the DOB for the smallest of things. Sure you can do it with out filing, but if you get caught doing work with out a permit, be prepared to pay a fine.
Good luck.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 7:03 PM
This is an internal airshaft, right? It provided ventilation for a bathroom with a window. You want to put in a closet. I did this myself. First, you open the wall to expose the space. This can be interesting since the original plumber could hide a lot of mistakes there out of view. You have to gut the interior to see what comes next. Then you reposition all vent pipes, electrical lines and whatever into the walls of your new closet. Most important is to install a blower fan for the bathroom with venting to the roof, run electrical power to it and an on/off switch in the bathroom. do not forget grounding, very important in bathroom environment. It's not as difficult as it sounds. You create a floor by building a box frame on level with the existing floor. It's got to be strong to support you but it doesn't have to support a truck. Cover with 3/4 plywood. Dry wall all sides, seal the window(both sides) and add a ceiling. Add carpeting to the floor, nice touch. Don't forget to prime and add shelving. When someone asks about a permit, you say: It was like that when I bought the place. Would I lie to you? Do I look like carpenter? Show me it the plans! The plans are vague at best.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 7:17 PM
Thanks for all the quick comments. Of course we would go through our coop board, I'm just trying to feel it out first. Plus, the airshaft was covered up decades ago so it is now just a shadowy, dusty space, not providing much light or air for anyone.
Years ago, the 1st floor apartment (not the current tenants) had built out into a different airshaft so when they built their ceiling, they also built our potential floor. Unfortunately, it's at the opposite end of the apartment so wouldn't be in the right place for this laundry room project.
Posted by: brookelen at February 5, 2008 8:07 PM
Brookelen -- you got some good answers above.
Your opinion on whether the airshaft is "is not providing much light and air for anyone" should probably be double checked by a professional consultant (meaning engineer or architect) in case it is an intake for a gas-fired appliance, serving as an exhaust/vent for something you haven't seen, etc.
The problem with your project is that these airshafts, typically speaking, were built as a response to the 1916 zoning laws to curb abuses of apartments that had no light or ventilation at all. SO it is quite unlikely that an airshaft was added to the building by accident or whimsy -- it's probably serving a purpose that follows even the ancient codes. Not Hammurabi, but at least back to 1916.
Posted by: Smokychimp at February 5, 2008 8:39 PM
Here's the rub: you blow out the airshaft to make a closet. A fire in your apartment spreads into the airshaft because of your closet, spreading the fire to other floors that would normally be better shielded by the required fire rating between floors.
***
Seems like a simple thing, but it's not.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 11:37 PM
Poster-You can't do this and the person below you who did it, did it illegally. Plain and simple. When his closet lights fire and burns your place down, you can sue the hell out of him. If you do the same, the same will happen to you.
I'd think long and hard about this before you do this.
-A different architect...
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 8:21 AM
Not every airshaft that seems to be dusty and covered off is actually no longer functional. Lived in a coop where the first floor apartment (selfishly) opened the wall and used the space in the airshaft. Unfortunately, the top of the shaft still had the louvered holes in the glass high hat that covered the top of the shaft (as the rest of the bathrooms, and some other rooms above, still had either windows that opened to the airshaft, or bathroom fans that vented into the shaft.) So, when the rains and snow came, the top of the first floor shaft area did sometimes get wet. So said tenant made the coop pay to fix the walls in her stupid illegal floor space area (stupid of the coop to do so, really, but some people are the bane of coop life and it is easier to spend the money to get them to shut up, or so some board members with no balls think.) More rain, more snow, figure out what happens.
You are incredibly selfish to even consider this.
Posted by: guest at February 7, 2008 12:37 AM
The building was built about 1896, and it is an internal shaft. The coop board had no problem with the previous owners doing this, and they were by-the-book people. I assume that if they filled in the airshaft, it is legal.
Regarding fire safety, I would think that the building is safer with the airshaft filled in. The would prevent fire from moving from one floor to another. We would also want to make sure that our floors and ceilings are guarded against fire.
The shaft provides no light, since there is no window on the top- I think it might have a small chimney, but I'm not sure. We're on the second floor, but none of the other floors have windows to the shaft.
Frankly, I don't understand its original purpose. We also have another internal airshaft next to the bathroom, but that one at least has windows to the hallways, bathroom and ceiling. That one provides at least a tiny bit of light, but is somewhat irrelevant given the invention of the lightbulb. (The building was originally gas lit.)
-Mr. Brookelen
Posted by: guest at February 11, 2008 3:27 PM
Never assume that a coop board knows (or necessarily cares at all about) what is legal and what isn't.
Posted by: guest at February 11, 2008 7:21 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.