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February 4, 2008
Brownstone owners- do you always encounter mice?
We are starting our house search and trying to decide between a high end condo/coop and brownstone. We are up for the general maintenance associated with a brownstone in terms of constant repairs, etc. However, one thing that keeps giving me pause is the rodent issue.
So I wanted to ask those of you who have brownstones to describe what type of mouse encounters should be expected.
If we buy a house that is in great condition, is it still a guarantee that we'll see mice annually when the weather turns cold? Or is it more just a common occurance? We live in Manhattan now in an old building and have encountered mice but it was just once and they have not turned up again after we caught them.
So I just want to understand whether I can expect this to be an ongoing problem (as in, catch mice frequently throughout the year) or whether this is typically more of an isolated incident that, if properly addressed by exterminators, etc.- can be dealt with.
I'm just trying to understand the nature and severity of the mouse situation in most brownstones. Any comments would be appreciated.
Thank you!
Comments
How do you feel about cats? You get a cat, you have zero mice. Zippo, nada, nowhere.
A brownstone, or any other older house that touches the ground in NYC can't be sealed tightly enough to keep out mice, which can fit through an opening the size of a dime.
Here, kitty kitty.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 1:24 AM
You forgot to ask about rats, squirrels, pigeons, bats. Here kitty kitty!
Posted by: denton at February 4, 2008 6:07 AM
never seen any mice...caught 2 rats this winter!!
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 7:51 AM
So it's a definite, constant then? If you live in a brownstone there will always be a rodent issue to deal with? What if you hire a monthly exterminator or something like that?
Posted by: brooklyn08 at February 4, 2008 8:03 AM
Ummmm. Yes. Cockroaches, too. If you feel that strongly about rodents, you might want to rethink your plan.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 8:20 AM
Rodents and pest of any kind are NOT a foregone conclusion. Just seal all holes and cracks, not just the big ones. It's not impossible. It's a lot of work and you need to stay on top of it, but it can be done. I bought a real hand-man special back in the '70s and did just this.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 8:23 AM
the problem is that you can work to seal up every crack and crevice that you see in the basement and around the foundation but they get in through the common walls that you share with your lovely brownstones to either side!!
You can keep them out of your interior space by making sure that EVERY hole and the area around every pipe in the kitchen and bathroom is effectively sealed up. This is ony going to be accomplished by removing the cabinets and making sure there are no crevices, holes or soaces anywhere in the floor or the drywall. They come up through the small voids between the wall or the floor and the pipes & drains. Steel wool works well in filling the voids bt if they are larger, you need to feit some new wood around the pipe and the opening.
If you set poison out you will eventually wind up with a dead rodent in the walls somewhere and a bad smell for a couple of months
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 8:23 AM
You can get mice in new condos too. Just ask around... my friends have had them, and they live in a multifamily newish development.
Cats and through cleaning go a long way. Good luck.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 8:31 AM
This post is really making me crack up. If you are that afraid of rodents you should rethink living in NY, any temperate climate for that matter
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 8:41 AM
Thanks all- we are just trying to get a realistic sense of this issue. We would likely be open to monthly/quarterly exterminators and would also do as thorough a job as possible with sealing holes.
We have newborn twins to take into consideration which is one reason why we're pretty fearful of rodents. I'm just wondering if it is realistic to keep them at bay- at least out of our interior space.
Interesting that condos would likely be affected too. Living in Manhattan for 10 years, I understand that rodents can exist anywhere. We're ready to buy a home though with a yard, but are given genuine pause when faced with mice running around and little kids doing the same.
I realize that there is no way to say for sure, but are some brooklyn brownstone owners able to effectively keep rodents,squirrels, etc. away from their interior space?
Posted by: brooklyn08 at February 4, 2008 8:42 AM
I have owned brownstones for over 20 years. Sometimes, for several years no mice, some times a really bad infestation. No idea why.
Posted by: BklynHouseLover at February 4, 2008 8:51 AM
Pests don't care if you live in a condo, townhouse or brownstone. If you seal off the spaces they enter and don't leave food laying around you shouldn't have a major problem. If a mouse wanders in, its can be easily remedied by a trap. I wouldn't lay down poison b/c then you'll just have a dead mouse in your house which is more dangerous than a live one.
Ive always had a cat so perhaps thats why I haven't had any issues but he has never caught any mice. Hard to say if any have traveled through and been scared off. But its never been an issue.
I don't think a random mouse is going to pose much of a threat to your children.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at February 4, 2008 8:54 AM
BklynHouseLover- how do you deal with the really bad infestation that you encounter from time to time? Is it remedied quickly?
MrsLimestone- thanks for the tips. I appreciate it. (You are generally very helpful on this baord).
Posted by: brooklyn08 at February 4, 2008 9:14 AM
We got a cat a few years ago after several mice came jumping out of a kitchen drawer a few years ago. (It helped that our daughter had been begging for a cat.) Before that incident, the mice came in every Fall. We'd see evidence in the kitchen and then call an exterminator -- one visit and the mice were gone. We have a rear parlor kitchen and that is always where the mice are. I've never seen any evidence of mice in any other part of the house. If you keep food away from where your babies sleep and play, you should be fine.
Posted by: trudylou at February 4, 2008 9:35 AM
We started to get mice a few years ago, when new neighbors next door moved in with a mouser cat.
We have a cat, that is not the least bit interested in chasing or catching mice. We had an exterminator come in few times to seal up holes and lay glue traps.
That helped, but since the mice are only coming in cabinet with the kitchen garbage, we got a rat zapper for under the sink. No more problems, and no poison.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 9:45 AM
9:45...what kind of rat zapper dids you get and how does it work???
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 10:00 AM
Congrats on the twins. I'm jealous. I'll offer a few thoughts. I personally would hesitate to bring in an exterminator to spray poison into my babies' environment.
In our coop, the apts without cats have seen mice. Those with have not. However, I know my cat loves to sleep anywhere warm and especially loves to curl up around our heads and necks at night. A cat could plop itself down on a baby and smother it (sorry, terrifying notion for new mom I'm sure). If you wouldn't put a heavy blanket on the baby, don't allow a heavy "blanket" to jump up in their crib. I've seen bassinets with a net cover that zips up over. Also, what do doctors say nowadays about alergens in the early months of a baby's life? I'd ask before introducing cat dander.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 10:11 AM
This is more about a parent who thinks he/she can protect their kid from each and every evil germ that exists. You can't. And you shouldb't if you want them to actually develop anti-bodies. Have you considered a spaceship?
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 10:31 AM
Not to turn this into a cat thread but cats do not smother babies. I don't know where this rumor started.
Many of the new mothers I know keep the door to the nursery closed to prevent the cat from going in there to avoid shedding, etc.. Its pretty easy to keep a cat out of a section of a house. Just shut the door.
If your cat has to wage war on mice in every room of your house, you have a bigger problem than any cat is going to help out with.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at February 4, 2008 10:48 AM
Mrs Limestone, that "rumor" was started because anyone with a cat, knows that they like to sleep on your head/neck just like 10:11 said. They're not killing kids on purpose out of jealousy or anything, but they might by accident.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 10:58 AM
When we brought our son home from the hospital our twelve year old cat expressed a great deal if interest, sniffed the top of his head once, and never bothered with him again.
The only time we saw mice was when we were between cats, after she died three years later. They disappeared as soon as we aquired a tiny kitten. Mice aren't THAT stupid.
Unless you're alergic to cats, they're a much better solution than using anything toxic. Of course it helps if you really love them, but just tolerating them as the least harmful kind of rodent control would suffice (although the poor cat might not like that).
Posted by: Bob Marvin at February 4, 2008 11:29 AM
We have had only rare single mouse sightings over the past 15 years in our brownstone. However we are in the midst of our third all out battle with home invading squirrels! These critters are relentless in searching out warm & cozy housing for the winter. We have had to seal up every imaginable opening on the roof/exterior with wire mesh and they have still returned. Anyone have better experience with eliminating squirrels?
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 11:45 AM
We live in an old Victorian. Had mice in our part and the rental when we moved in with our two cats. In the first couple of weeks, we found two or three dead mice in the hallway, we haven't seen a single mouse in either part of the house for two years. We also have a newborn, the cats sniffed her when she first got home, they have not been the least bit interested in the three months since then.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 11:52 AM
The cats smothering/sucking the breath from babies notion has been around since the Middle Ages, and is nonsense. To my knowledge, there has never been a documented case of that actually taking place, anywhere in the entire world. Mice are not interested in your child either. They only want a warm place to nest, and food, and tend to keep to the corners of rooms. As Mrs. Limestone and others said, keep food out of the child's room and close the door, if you get a cat.
Everyone in my 3 family house has at least 2 cats, and we occasionally find a dead mouse in the jaws of a kitty, and they are usually very young mice who didn't know better. We look for all holes to fill up, but don't put out traps because the cats are very nosy. We've only found them when the weather is very rainy, or when it first gets cold. Like waterbugs, which show up in the summer, nature tends to get in. Thankfully, no nests or droppings have been found. One can only try to keep up, but as long as we don't have rats, I don't freak out too much.
Cleanliness and plugging holes keeps me busy enough.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at February 4, 2008 12:26 PM
I would NEVER get rid of our cat after we have a child. The upsides of having a pet with children are much greater. There was a recent study that showed children who grow up in their early years and beyond with pets develop a greater ability for empathy. Plus for all the rumors or fears of cats smothering a child, when have you ever read or heard about it actually happening? All SIDS cases require autopsy and a smothering from a cat would be very obvious to a coroner, with the fur they'd find in the mouth, trachea and lungs. Not to be tragically graphic about it, but unsubtantiated medieval rumors that result in cats being taken from their homes, brought to shelters then put down is really sad.
Developing empathy is a good thing when you want your child to be a person who doesn't hurt others, emotionally or physically.
Anyway, to answer the OP question, my husband had mice in his coop until I moved in with my cat then they went away. Except for two mice over a period of 3 years that she caught and killed. Now this is interesting, when we moved into a house (a one-family attached house) we've never had any mice. Ever. Nada. I wonder if some houses that are multi-family with a tenant are more likely to get mice. Because of two kitchens and two families creating garbage, not just one?
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 1:11 PM
Serious answer: had mice (and a rat) in my house a few years ago. Haven't seen evidence of them recently (closed up a lot of holes, etc, tenants have two cats downstairs).
Perplexed answer: is this post for real? OP sounds like such a fearful person it is hard to imagine that any response except "nope there are no mice in Brooklyn" will make him/her feel safe. I have never heard of any children being molested by the occassional mouse.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at February 4, 2008 2:02 PM
If there are mice around (and it varies year to year), there is a strong chance they will get into your brownstone.
Even if you close up every possible hole you can see, they will still get in if they want to. A mouse can squeeze through any hole that is big enough to fit its head, and mouse heads can be as narrow as one centimeter (3/8"). Unless you're investigating every square inch of your building, you probably have at least one or two 3/8" wide holes.
Cats are helpful, but they don't solve all the problems. We had mice last year who were crawling between the plaster and the brick up into our ceiling, and then coming down from above to raid our upper cabinets. That said, we were quite proud of our cats for catching the mice who ventured down to the floor level.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 2:21 PM
rats are really the issue. all my neighbors along 2nd street and 8th had them one year. I almost moved
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 2:23 PM
I'd add that we only get them about once a year, for a few weeks, when the weather turns cold (September/October). I have no idea where they go the rest of the time.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 2:23 PM
What do you do about rats? We don't have them inside but they have dug a couple of holes in our yard and there are about 10 holes in the neighbors yard. We're on a commercial block with the subway so I don't think we can totally eliminate the problem but I'd love to figure out something to do besides bait stations and keeping our trash in sealed metal containers.
When it was warm and light late we kept filling the holes and all the redigging by the rats attracted a couple of neighborhood cats. They seemed to kill a few but now their numbers seem to be growing.
Any and all advice greatly appreciated.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 2:38 PM
9:45 back again.
It is called the rat zapper.
http://www.ratzapper.com/index.cfm
We have the ultra version. Pinchick carries this model.
And for the scare tactic cat person. Our head snuggling cat wanted nothing to do with our baby until recently (4yrs old) The dogs are much more interesting to play with. Children exposed to animals early (the more the better) tend to have fewer allergies.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 3:27 PM
Putnamdenizen, I'm going to guess that you, like Tom Cruise, have never actually experienced pregnancy/nursing hormones. Just because you have never felt something does not mean someone else's experience is so unreal or irrational that they must be faking.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 4:20 PM
Everyone is going on about how cats pose no danger. Just what is the danger the mice present?
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 4:35 PM
All those rats living on our block and not a one would get into the rat zapper, even when it was just used as a pre-activate decoy. Seemed they might have passed on some type of lore. I've read that with poison sometimes one will taste for the good of the group. My Mom swears that the rats on her farmlet carried away poison so the others didn't go near it.
What should we do?
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 4:37 PM
4:35,
mice are dirty and diseased and they poop everywhere.
Posted by: guest at February 4, 2008 6:49 PM
4:35, um, ever heard of the bubonic plague. While that's not around, rodents carry many unwanted diseases.
Posted by: lincolnlimestone at February 5, 2008 9:50 AM
4:37
try baiting the rat zapper with peanut butter in a bottle cap. we only have had mice not rats, but they like the pb much better than the other baits.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 10:40 AM
I have a free standing Victorian frame house and I have only seen a mouse once in thirteen years. I don't have a cat or dog because I am allergic to both but I hear that small dogs especially terriers are just as adept at catching mice and rats. I keep all holes sealed, use peppermint soap to clean the house, keep eating outside of the kitchen and dining room at a minimum. Keeping dry goods in sealed containers within your cabinets helps as well. I also do not hoard magazines, newspapers and other things that may give mice a nice nesting place. I place cotton balls soaked with peppermint oil in strategic locations throughout the house. I also grow peppermint in containers on the outside of my home. Mice hate the smell of peppermint and will avoid it. I also do not have a roach problem.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 11:00 AM
UHM....I lived in Orange County in the relative rural area in an old farm house growing up. I've experienced more mice moving inside in the country than I've ever seen in Brooklyn living here 25 years. Rats are a different story.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 12:58 PM
This is a pretty wild thread to jump into but here goes. The problem with mice in your house, children or not is that they gnaw and chew on everything, bags of flour, food packages, electric cords. Then they leave droppings all over the place, so that is soiling and it has a strong odor. Finally, mice carry fleas, and are the initial contact for infecting deer with with the Lyme tick (Lyme disease). So mice in the house are bad. Sealing up all crack and spaces will help cut down on their entering the space. But all they rowhouses are connected so they have the opportunity of travelling from one house to another. I don't like having poison repeatedly applied to my living space, kids or not. I have cats and have never had any mice (or roaches for that matter). I am one of 8 children and we always had from one to three house cats. No one was ever smothered. The worst thing the cats did was sleep in the crib when baby was removed. I think I still vote for the cat solution.
Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 6:20 PM
Cat-had mice for few years. Got a cat last year have not seen any live mice only dead ones. Go Kitty!!!!
Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 11:21 AM
Before we moved in there was definite evidence of mouse infestation in our brownstone. We even promised our cat all the mice he could catch before the move. But since we moved in, we haven't seen a single mouse. As you would expect, the cat is extremely disappointed. I think the presence of a cat must drive the mice away, assuming they have somewhere else to go. Our neighbors probably wonder where all the mice came from all of a sudden.
As for the baby smothering thing... that does sound a bit overprotective. I would be surprised of there were any documented cases of that happening. Anecdotal evidence is fairly worthless, but my parents had cats before they had me, and as I recall the cats stayed well clear of both me and my younger brother until we were old enough to recognize them as living creatures instead of toys. Infants and toddlers have a tendency toward tail-pulling that makes most cats wary.
Posted by: geekspice at February 6, 2008 6:39 PM
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