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January 20, 2008
What type of insulation for a Brownstone?
My house has drafty walls. It also has beautiful plasterwork on the drafty walls which I don't want to destroy.
I'm considering blown-in insulation and was wondering whether anyone has gotten this done?
My concerns with it are A) bugs - I live in a neighborhood with lots of termite problems and B) if I ever need to get any future work done in the walls (ie: electrical, plumbing) will it be difficult to access these systems?
Yes, I have caulked all windows and sealed the facade as much as possible but I think the cold air is also coming from convection within the wall cavity.
Anyone have any ideas or experience with different types of insulation? Any ideas/insight?
Comments
Blowing insulation into the ROOF of a brownstone is an excellent idea--the walls are another matter. Installing insulation without a vapor barrier can cause serious condensation problems. This can be avoided in a roof by installing a couple of mushroom vents. AFAIK you can't vent the walls. Also, the deep cock loft between brownstone roofs and top floor ceilings allows for blowing in a LOT of insulation. The space between plaster and masonry in outside walls is pretty tight and blown-in insulation there can't have a very high R value. Drafts in walls can be greatly reduced by caulking around windows, baseboards, electruc boxes, etc.
FWIW I the celulose insulation I had blown into my roof 30 years ago lowered my heating bills a lot.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 20, 2008 11:25 AM
Bob - who do you suggest doing this type of work?
Posted by: guest at January 20, 2008 12:10 PM
Sorry, but I can't be of much help here because I had the work done 30 years ago. At the time, Brooklyn Union Gas offered a discounted promotion on blown-in insulation. The job was supposed to have been done with fiber glass, but they substituted cellulose because of a shortage of fiber glass (since people were scrambling to insulate their homes in response to the mid-70s energy crisis). In retrospect, I'm glad they didn't use fiber glass which, I think, is fine in batts, but not the best thing to have lying around as loose fibers.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 20, 2008 3:24 PM
Even if you blew insulation in the walls, you'd still have to patch and repair your plaster walls, which would be visibly evident.
Posted by: guest at January 20, 2008 11:06 PM
you can try insulation paint additive for the walls.
I wouldn't bother with blown in for the walls unless you can first see what the space inside the wall is like.
Are you getting actual drafts from outside or are you just feeling cold air convection currents caused by heat loss at the walls?
Posted by: guest at January 21, 2008 10:25 AM
In addition to Bob's point about condensation (which I hadn't heard before--thanks for that), you really can't blow insulation into the exterior walls of a Brownstone because there is no space to blow it into. There is your plaster. Then there is your lathe. And then there is your first layer of brick. No air space = no place for insulation. Unfortunately.
10:25's reference to "insulation paint additive" mystifies me. Insulation paint additive? Doubtful.
Posted by: Rehab at January 21, 2008 12:35 PM
Oh, but: You COULD blast some insulation beneath your windows. My windows have paneling beneath them that appear to contain hollow, empty boxes, and they're drafty. If you have the skill to pop open the paneling without ruining it.
Posted by: Rehab at January 21, 2008 12:38 PM
For your exposed walls(not the front facade, of course) look into exterior insulation(Google exsulation or Dryvit). I've seen it being applied to new construction over cinderblock walls(on Meeker Ave along the BQE and elsewhere. They attach a vapor barrier to the surface, then polystyrene panels (1 to 3 inches thick), another barrier or mesh, a thin stucco coating and paint of choice on that. The polystyrene has an R-value of 3.0-3.5 to the inch. It's airtight and appplying outside the mass of the structure adds to its heat retaining/deflecting value.
I have no info on cost / sustainability / payback. Any one who does please share it here.
Posted by: guest at January 21, 2008 12:56 PM
Insulating paint additive exists: InsulAdd and Hytech are two:
"When mixed into paint the painted surface dries to a tightly packed layer of the hard, hollow "microspheres", The tightly packed film reflects and dissipates heat by minimizing the path for the transfer of heat. The ceramics are able to reflect, refract and block heat radiation (loss or gain) and dissipate heat rapidly preventing heat transfer through the coating with as much as 90% of solar infrared rays and 85% of ultra violet-rays being radiated back into the atmosphere."
If anyone has used/heard about these, appreciate if you'd post. Sounds fishy to me.
Hytech webstite actually has a link to an FTC ruling against some other company whose claims were ruled fradulent by the FTC! http://www3.ftc.gov/bcp/rulemaking/rvalue/16cfr460.htm
Posted by: cmu at January 21, 2008 2:33 PM
Its not so much insulation as a ceramic thermal reflector. Probably too new a product to see what works and what doesn't at this point.
Posted by: guest at January 21, 2008 2:48 PM
i wouldn't place much stock in paint on insulation. really. and if you want a blow-in product then you should check out some closed cell foam, there is a company that has soy-based closed cell foam and they blow it into walls and it expands to fill the space. i believe there are no condensation issues with this product if it is installed properly. it will not allow any moisture penetration and actually acts as the moister barrier itself.
Posted by: guest at January 22, 2008 7:21 AM
OP here...
My reasoning for asking about blown-in for the walls is so I only have to make a small hole and not open up the entire wall cavity as would be required for adding batting (not gonna happen. no way no how).
I've also read about closed-cell foam insulation which supposedly doesn't have the moisture problems of absorbent materials, but I'm also hesitant to fill my walls with gunk that might gum up electrical conduits or prevent me from running wires, etc. through the walls in the future.
The main wall in question is the front wall of the house. The back wall is a lot less drafty. I've done all the caulking, etc. I'm able to on my own (I don't own a cherry picker or a scaffolding - just a tall ladder). I cannot find any major infiltration points on the front of the house, so it's all a bit of a mystery to me.
Posted by: guest at January 22, 2008 8:53 AM
OP, I'm sure you checked for leaks where the baseboard meets the floor. That was a major source of drafts in my house.
Posted by: ohiise at January 22, 2008 7:51 PM
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Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:47 PM
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