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January 30, 2008
what if i really NEED a buyer's broker?
I know, I know, it's not standard practice in NYC to get a buyer's broker. And it's generally not necessary, if not counter-productive. BUT, I think I really need one, so how do I find one? My situation is this: I'm a former Brooklynite who recently moved to CA. Big mistake. We're ready to move back. We want to buy in BK and move directly into the place. That means we need to do our searching from here, mostly. Of course we'll come out as necessary, but that's so hard to judge! Listings are often so misleading; how do we *really* know what's worth its salt without seeing it first? If it REALLY seems like the right place, we're happy to fly right out to see it. But obviously we can't be doing that every time we see something interesting.
My sister recently bought a home here in CA. As is standard practice here, she got a buyer's broker, and that person worked tirelessly for her. She'd search the MLS like mad, and she often saw places before even recommending them. My sister didn't want her time wasted on places that didn't meet her very strict criteria. The broker was awesome! I'm thinking that's what I need.
Any advice?
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Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 5:19 AM
In CA, the seller pays the whole 6%, and the buyer's broker and seller's broker agree to split it. Here in NY, the seller's broker is contractually entitled to the entire 6% (or whatever the agreed-upon price is). So if your buyer's broker is insisting upon being paid another 3%, then either (a) you have to pay that out of your pocket, or (b) the seller does, in which case your bid is effectively 3% lower than the other guy's, which means you're effectively paying it in either scenario.
Put another way, in CA it is standard for the seller to pay 3% to each broker for the service of selling a house, and in Brooklyn it is standard for the seller to pay 5-6% to the seller's broker only. If you want to rock the boat on that practice, god bless, but there's no way around the fact that you're going to have to pay for it -- period.
Can you find a buyer's broker who will work by the hour or for a flat fee or for a reduced percentage like maybe 1-2%? Maybe. But the seller will not pay, period.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 6:31 AM
What kind of place are you looking for and in which neighborhood? We are planning to sell our Prosp Hgts 2BR/2BA Condo soon. Let me know if you'd like further details.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 8:30 AM
sorry but market is still moving too fast for that. you have to decide on a neighborhood ( a broker can't do that), make 100 appts, see everything and place your offer.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 8:56 AM
Why not rent in Brooklyn while you house hunt? While it may be inconvenient because it means moving twice, it's still the most realistic and effective way to find what you really want, without being rushed or pressured.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 8:59 AM
8:30am - do tell more re your prospect hts pad...
Posted by: looker at January 31, 2008 9:39 AM
You refer to yourself as "we". Is that a couple or are there kids? I think one or all of you need to move into a rental here now and get down to the time intensive task of finding your next home. You cannot hire someone to do this for you for a couple of reasons. There are too many of us here looking who will do our own legwork so the brokers who do work with buyers are not inclined to be anything like the one your sister found. Also, if you don't do it yourself and you get something on a brokers recommendation, every time you find something wrong with it you will be kicking your self. This is a major investment. You have to put in the effort to get it right.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 10:34 AM
In the NYC market, you CANNOT do a house hunt from out of state. You cannot rely on a broker to find you the "right" place. It's not effective or efficient. Go the rental route--there are plenty of short-term leases available.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 10:59 AM
I disaqgree--we did a househunt from out of state and it worked fine. Unfortunately, in New York, you need to work with multiple brokers so you can't have one person line up all the properties for you like you can in almost every other place. But you can develop relationships with 3-4 good brokers from the main agencies and coordinate showings over two or three trips to NY. Things aren't moving THAT fast now. Book flights for a couple of weekends, line up viewings with agents and go to a zillion open houses. We managed to find a house after only three visits and we had never even lived in Brooklyn before.
Loads of people will tell you to rent before buying, but if you know where you want to be it just ends up bieng a pain (plus finding a nice rental is not that easy, either.) Limited time speeds up the decision-making process. I know people who started renting two and a half years ago and are STILL looking for the "perfect" hosue (none such thing exists).
Good luck!
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 11:08 AM
Do you have friends/family that can help you? They won't be able to do everything but they can visit options in person before you make the trip to see it yourself. I'd trust someone who knows me to be better able to judge if a home was worth flying out to see it better than a broker with a financial gain at stake.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 31, 2008 11:09 AM
What is 6:31 talking about?? Totally inaccurate.
Only one or two rinky dink brokers in Brooklyn say "no brokers" because they want the full fee. All the legitimate brokers WILL absolutely split the commission with the buyer's broker and you pay nothing to your broker as a buyer.
I lived in both CA and Brooklyn and in both places I used a broker as a buyer. Did so here in Brooklyn because the same broker was selling our coop, so why not have her help with buying a place. It's not money out of my pocket, and it saved me TIME. Time is money. We are busy people. Anybody who can research the comps and coordinate viewings and inspection and blah blah, fine by me.
If someone lives here in Brooklyn and has the time to do all the searching and scheduling then bidding and buying entails, sure they can do it without a broker. As for brokers trying to push the deal through, yes they'll do that, but if you don't have enough backbone to tell your broker as a buyer what to do, and you don't have the balls to make your own decisions despite what your broker might say sometimes, then you're sure as heck not going to do a great job negotiating with the seller all on your own! Silly.
In your circumstance absolutely use a buyers broker if it's going to be helpful to you. Research listings on your own of course, who doesn't do that, but why turn away extra help just to make a point about brokers? There is a huge anti-broker attitude here on Brownstoner so you have to take any comments about brokers with a grain of salt. Your circumstance is unique and nobody is really acknowledging that.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 12:42 PM
"I'd trust someone who knows me to be better able to judge if a home was worth flying out to see it better than a broker with a financial gain at stake."
Soooo, making money is bad? Does your job not require sales or marketing at all?
I'm not a broker, have to say that here because that's always the accusation anytime there is an attempt at a balanced viewpoint, but come on. Get real. Brokers are making a living like any of us. If you can resist a saleswoman at a cosmetic counter you can resist being forced to spend over a million bucks on a property in Brooklyn you don't really want to buy. The paranoia over this is nutty.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 12:45 PM
We've had good luck with someone who is essentially acting as a buyer's broker for us here. The seller will be paying his fee; he will be splitting the 6% with the seller's broker. i assume this will make it a little bit harder to get an offer accepted ... We already live in Brooklyn, but he is setting up appointments and combing through listings. I agree with many of the posters, that it would preferable to be here, as the market is in such constant flux and there are so options available.
Good luck!
Posted by: Ryan Goldschlager at January 31, 2008 1:49 PM
1. There are no true buyer's brokers in NYC(don't know what housebywe does, so can't comment on them).
2. There are selling brokers who willingly advertise that they co-broke (will split the commission 50/50 with the broker who brings the buyer.) These tend to be the larger, city-wide brokers, not the small, Brooklyn-only ones. When I sold my apartment last year, I sold through Corcoran for this reason - my broker emailed out my listing to all REBNY (Real Estate Board of New York) brokers each week. So brokers from Manhattan and Brooklyn would bring their clients to my apartment (to the open houses or by making an appointment with my broker) if they thought it met their client's needs. As a seller, it only made sense to me to go with a broker who co-brokes. Got great exposure, sold quickly.
3. So, you need to line up a REBNY-participating broker who will comb the REBNY listings for you, and line up some for you to see. Then come out (right after you see some listings, as prime stuff goes quickly, even in this market) and see them in a blitz of seeing stuff. But don't expect your broker to have actually gone to see the place first, unless they took another client there - it won't happen just for you.) Stay at least a week; two is best (if you have an accepted verbal offer on one, you should stick around and go inspect it with an inspector you hire 3-5 days later, max. Then you can go home and let your NYC attorney handle the rest with you via fax.) It won't be hard. Just be prepared to decide soon after seeing a place, and expect, if the place is really nice and not overpriced, to pay close to asking, or asking price, or slightly over asking if the place is either (1) in high demand or (2) is offered by a broker who deliberately prices low to spark a bidding war - and has been successful in sparking one. Bidding wars are weird - you can always refuse to go over asking and walk away.
4. Don't worry about seeing listings offered by brokers who won't co-broke - any seller with an ounce of sense who is truly interested in selling quickly (rather than testing the market to see if their junky place can entice a buyer who will pay way over market) will list their place with a broker who co-brokes. You will see the best of the available inventory this way, from sellers who are serious about selling.
5. The larger places (decent-sized two bedrooms and over) will be in the Times online - with pics and floorplans - this can be your best research tool, along with lining up a broker. (If you can't see a floorplan, the place isn't worth your time trying to see it - just move on.) The Times can also tell you which brokers are REBNY brokers and know the neighborhood you want well. And it is a good source for figuring out what is priced well, and what is terribly overpriced.
6. You can also look at the websites of Brokers in the area for listings - you can find out who they are from the Times - but if they are small Brooklyn brokers, you can't see the place through your broker. Your broker will know which ones co-broke. I wouldn't worry about looking at listings of ones who don't - waste of time - they aren't the best stuff - you will see this from looking at their lousy websites, which have little prime inventory and don't have floorplans often. Serious sellers aren't dumb - they go with brokers who co-broke.
7. You can also do all this without a broker - if there's a weekend with a bunch of open houses you like listed, just get here and go to them. If you can't make all the open houses, or there isn't one on a place you want to see, call the listing broker and set up an appointment. You may be able to find a broker you like who will look for stuff for you this way.
NO, I'm not a broker, or related to any. Just a smart seller.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 2:06 PM
You need a close friend in NY who will apartment hunt for you and weed out the crap. Simple.
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 5:46 PM
I might have some ideas. Please email me privately. yobyarster@gmail.com
Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 5:58 PM
Ya'll are a helpful bunch. Thanks.
For the record, the "we" is my husband, my son, and myself. Will post separately re: what we're specifically looking for, as I'd love advice regarding how realistic I'm being...
Posted by: tanner at January 31, 2008 11:56 PM
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