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January 2, 2008
To Party Wall, or Not to Party Wall....
We live in a brownstone in the north slope that is adjacent to an open lot on one side of the building. The owner of the vacant lot recently informed us that he plans to build a new brownstone of roughly the same size as ours on the site, and asked if we would be amenable to a party wall agreement, which we understand to mean an arrangement whereby we would allow him to use our existing wall to support his beams and joists, rather than erecting a new wall immediately adjacent to our own. We don’t have any experience with such matters, and so would appreciate any guidance regarding the specific issues we should consider in deciding whether or not to enter into a party wall agreement. In particular, we would welcome advice on the structural, acoustic, safety, and economic implications of agreeing to a shared wall. We would also appreciate referrals to qualified engineers who may be able to help us assess this kind of situation. Many thanks for any guidance you can offer!
Comments
You're kidding, right? Who would ask somebody to let them drill and pound and vibrate said wall for months, so that they could then double the load on it? Leaving you next to a building that would have been stronger if built independently?
Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 10:51 PM
don't do it. he's just trying to save 18" of space...
Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 11:04 PM
Scary stuff.
Posted by: Ysabelle at January 3, 2008 12:56 AM
You're taking on risk. Protect your building. Let him build his own wall.
Posted by: Rick at January 3, 2008 5:49 AM
have him agree to pay for an engineer you hire, at his expense, to assess the situation. But I tend to agree with posters above....why put stress on your building to do him a favor?
Posted by: guest at January 3, 2008 8:02 AM
I guess it would depend on how much he was paying me. Provided I felt the compensation for my inconvienance was suffcient and I had my own choice of experts to verify that the construction was sound, I think an arrangement could be worked out.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 3, 2008 8:42 AM
It depends.
My structural engineer told us that the thing keeping most old brownstones up is party-wall construction. One building holds the other up, like two drunk friends, haha.
You should have this guy pay for a structural engineer that you hire, and have this independent person tell you whether you gain anything, structurally, from this over the long haul. It might be a thing where your wall gets nothing but extra load, as 10:51 suggested. But because that shared wall is attached to a wide foundation and another wall, I don't think this is the case. It might also be true that your building would benefit structurally from what is essentially a larger footprint.
I am just guessing that this might be the case. But being paid for your inconvenience and risk and getting a longterm structural benefit is good.
Posted by: fisher6000 at January 3, 2008 9:01 AM
Mrs Limestone has it right. If the OP is looking at this as an economic opportunity, then there is a price whereby the risk/inconvenience is worth it. If the OP is considering this as a "favor" for a neighbor, then forget about it.
Posted by: josh59x at January 3, 2008 9:03 AM
Your description doesn't quite make sense. If he's asking to use YOUR wall, then it isn't a party wall. A party wall is a wall built straddling the property line that allows the owners on each side to avoid building their own walls, saving space for both. If you already have a party wall, then he probably has a right to use it. If you don't, and he is truly asking to use YOUR wall, then a) you should expect compensation and B) you of course have the right to refuse.
Posted by: guest at January 3, 2008 9:06 AM
If he builds his own separate wall, that will require its own separate foundation which will likely create more structural disturbance to your existing wall.
Posted by: guest at January 3, 2008 9:59 AM
FWIW this would be likely to lower your heating bills a lot.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at January 3, 2008 10:35 AM
If you allow them to use your wall and are properly compensated, make sure you get in writing the fact that they will use QuietRock or some other sound-proofing material, and acoustically isolate the beams from your house, otherwise you will be in for a rude awakening.
Posted by: guest at January 3, 2008 12:52 PM
As a homeowner you should have drawings that tell you where your property line is. When you closed on the house, the title company should have provided you with them. If that is a party wall, than half of it is your neighbors. They can do whatever they want on their half.
If you go up to the roof of your townhouse, you might be able to tell by measuring the overall width of the house. What does your survey drawing show? There you go.
Obviously, the owner of the property next to you doesn't know if that's a party wall or not, if they are asking you.
Posted by: guest at January 3, 2008 4:27 PM
Fucking morons GET A SURVEY! If it is an existing party wall he can use it if he wants to if its not work out a $ figure every body is happy with. Again the ONLY way to tell is to GET A SURVEY!
Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 2:20 AM
You should already have a survey from when you closed on the house.
Take it out, look at it. Is your property line in the middle of a wall, it's a party wall. Is your property line on the outer side of the wall, Your wall.
Your wall, don't let them use it. too many problems, structural and LEGAL. Yes, legal, they would be building on YOUR property.
In any case, when construction starts, make sure to always inspect your adjoining wall and foundation for cracks. And have your lawyers number on speed dial.
Posted by: guest at January 4, 2008 12:38 PM
get a survey, an architect, and a structural engineer on board. these types of questions are too complex for internet forums.
Posted by: guest at January 8, 2008 1:24 PM
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