Propsect Heights Brownstone

Anecdotally, I have an acquaintance who accepted an off on their house in Boerum Hill in November, closed in Dec. At the first open house, they had five credible offers at ask or above. They closed at 2.3 -- 300,000 more than ask and it was 300,000 more than any house on their block had sold for. It seems the beautiful properties that are not excessively priced have a market, the fringe ones are languishing.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 9:28 AM

Two words - AY - Carlton is the back door to AY - where all the trucks will go - I believe it will be widened and all the street trees removed besides. You will not want to live there in 3 years.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 10:10 AM

Nice place, but I would guess that it is at least $250,000 overpriced. Don't be pressured by the brokers above into believing that you someone else will swoop it up if you won't. The cover of the times today is that Citi bank is posting a $8.1 billion loss, will layoff over 4000 employees, cutting dividends by 41%. And this is just the beginning. This is a buyer's market. Don't be fooled by the brokers into believing it is not.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 10:10 AM

Re AY and widening Carlton - It is part of the plans that were relesed by FCR.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 11:13 AM

It also has a top floor apt - does it have a private entrance or do you have to share. That should lower the price as it is a burden on the owner and the tenant who havet to share the staircases. Also it doesn't look like it has much detail - which is where the $$$'s are.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 11:17 AM

This place has been on the market for quite a while, because it is overpriced. Now, we'll hear several comments from those saying I'm just a "jealous renter" who can't afford it. Wrong. I have enough and checked the house. It's overpriced.

This is a decent 4 story, but not a big one. Look how deep-set in the ground the garden floor is. Those with more front window can get more money than one like this because they get more light. People like to compare sq footage, but you have to recognize that some brownstones have high ceilings on 4 flrs, some on 2 flrs, and some like this, have only high on the parlor flr.

Some prospect heights blocks should be able to command more because they have 110-130ft lots rather than the usual 100 (or worse the bococa and some ft. grn 80ft). As I recall this does not have a long lot. Remember this when the broker quotes you the comp around the corner on prospect pl.

Do not doubt that AY will make this a dustbowl for many years. This is 2 short blocks away. I think after it really could be a decent location. You'll be on the right side of AY towers to still get light in your back yard. But during years of construction it will be awful. Noise and vibrations from trucks rolling past and pilings being driven into the ground. I asked myself what that kind of dust would do to a toddler's developing lungs, looked at the city rates of asthma and decided it wasn't even close to worth it.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 11:29 AM

11:29--you're right.

Actually, this place was listed for $2 million for QUITE some time. Now they've come back with a higher price.

Small lot, not the best location. Overpriced, otherwise it would have moved.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:13 PM

The price on this house was increased from $2 million to $2.1. The price is too high.

I would look at the price history of 202 Prospect Place, a superior house (and wide at 21') with loads of detail AND a really deep 131' lot. It started out at $2.495, was on the market for months before being reduced to $2.1 million. At that point it entered contract (who knows at what price).

Anyway, this house has no detail and is on a much smaller lot. Looking at the other offerings in Prospect Hts, I think it should be priced at $1.8-$1.85. There's a reason it hasn't moved at its current price.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:21 PM

$1.7 tops for this house.

Check this out as an example: remember the house on Underhill Ave & St. Mark's that was listed for $2.5 million (it was also a former HOTD)? Well, after only 2 months, it was reduced to $1.8 million!!! And the broker writes in the listing "MAJOR PRICE REDUCTION"!

Everything is and has been overpriced. These places will sit for a long time.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:32 PM

I'd watch property shark to see the actual price for the Prospect pl house before I'd offer 1.8 for this one. Also, it's the same broker. You could ask her for the actual sale price. She probably won't give it to you, but you could try.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:33 PM

OP, try www.streeteasy.com first. You can type in the specific address, or do a general search for sales in a particular neighborhood if you don't know the address.

Once a house has closed and is recorded, it's available on NYC ACRIS, and then soon after on Property Shark. But that takes more time, unless it's a quick close.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:47 PM

We saw this place over the weekend and while it is quite nice, there were several problems:

- Top floor rental and no interior staircase for the owners space
- Owners space itself is NOT configured well- the 2nd floor would need a lot of interior walls, etc.
- The bottom floor is only 1/2 usable. The front half of the ground floor is actually where the mechanicals are. It is only the back half that is "usable" but really the way it is being used (as a studio) is about the only usage I could think of b/c it has low hanging pipes, etc. even though the ceiling is a normalish height.
- The garden is gorgeous, but small. The lot is only 86'ft as a previous poster pointed out.

At best, I would call this a 3 1/2 story with a short lot. For $2.1mm in Propsect Heights? I don't think so. Especially in this market where things could definitely turn south.

202 Prospect Place is a good comp in some ways, but it was way, way, way better than this house. It was absolutely beautiful from top to bottom, configured perfectly so very little interior work would typically be required, was used as a single fam which increases the price per sq. ft, and had a very deep and beautiful garden. As a previous poster said, it was originally listed at just under $2.5. Then dropped to $2.275. Then dropped to $2.1. Don't knwo what it closed at but the broker told me at one point they had an offer on it, but it was "too low" so they weren't taking it. But they had some pressure to close quickly b/c of a purchase they had made in Dumbo. So, my gut feeling is that it closed for the "low offer" price- whatever that way. My guess is below $2mm.

We'll see what happens with this place.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:51 PM

OP, I forgot to add that NOT all brokers list their properties on Streeteasy, so you won't find all the properties there. Warren Lewis and Brooklyn Properties don't use it, because they don't want people to be able to track price histories. So this specific house is not on Streeteasy, but 202 Prospect Place is because it was also listed with BHS. I remember this house when they were asking $2 million only a few months ago. They probably raised the price to have it technically be a "new listing" (and because they're demented).

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:54 PM

IF and only if 202 Prospect Place got around the $2 million mark, it's because it was a 1-family, was truly full of original detail, and was on one of those deep and long Prospect Heights lots. And even so, it struggled to get that $2 million (if it did).

This house is not at all comparable in terms of size or quality. So don't let the broker tell you the price should be comparable. Bullshit.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:57 PM

Warren Lewis held many open houses for this place when the price was $2 million. It was almost every Sunday for a while. Obviously there were no takers, so can't imagine why they increased the price.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 12:58 PM

^^The owner WILL NOT get more. Your offer is very generous. Do not go up, no matter what bullshit story they feed you. They'll come back to you eventually. And if they don't, you'll find something better.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 1:05 PM

Bklynrosie, I commend you for your honesty and suggest you pull the offer. Given that the 202 Prospect house probably only got 1.9 or 2M, and it was much, much bigger and better located, I think this house can at most get 1.75M. The owners haven't come to except that yet, but that is simply true. Do not let their belief in this house determine your price. Look at the facts we have given you and pull the offer. You'll be glad you did. You've actually dodged a bullet by being rejected at that price.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 1:20 PM

Agree with 1:20. Your 1.9 offer is too high, definitely pull it. This house will sit, until owner has to end up selling at around $1.7-$1.75.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 1:40 PM

Blynrosie- thanks for providing that info. It's useful for all of us buyers as we forge through this crazy market. I agree that you dodged a bullet. $1.9mm was generous and the seller is full of herself if she doesn't want to sell at that price (or maybe it is the listing agents that are guiding her. Either way, they are all delusional. The 202 Prospect Place example is a very good one, in terms of how much better that place was, and prob. went for less than $2mm). Prices are coming down. Just wait till she drops the listing price and try again.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 1:41 PM

Only in NYC....2 million is a first time buyer...

Wowza.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 1:42 PM

1:42, what does that mean?

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 2:05 PM

I think it means, wowza, that's a lot for a first time buyer. It means you probably have in the neighborhood of half a million for the down payment and enough cash to meet a $10000/month nut. If you were buying your second house and had equity, you would need less/no cash and potentially have a smaller nut. Wowza.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 3:56 PM

11:13, Widening Carlton down by Prospect Place? I've seen a bunch impact statements on AY without seeing anything definite on that one. I'm not saying you're wrong but if you're saying it was "in the plans" could you provide a link? The only mentions to street widening that I've seen are:
- Widening of Flatbush Avenue at Atlantic Avenue by approximately 10 feet for
a 750 ft drop-off lane adjacent to the arena
- Widening Atlantic Avenue between Flatbush Avenue and 6th Avenue
- Widening of 6th Avenue between Atlantic Avenue and Flatbush Avenue
- Widening of Pacific Street between 6th Avenue and Carlton Avenue to permit
two-way traffic circulation

Not that I trust FCR in the slightest, but there a difference between saying something is "in the plan" and saying it's a concern that some AY opponents have.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 3:59 PM

202 Prospect went for between 2 and 2.1. I think my bid was the "low" one mentioned above (1.8 when the listing was 2.275.)
Loved the house and the lot, but I'm glad it didn't work out--with kids, the cost of private school + mortgage probably equals a comparable house in PS or Cobble hill.

Bklnrosie: Revise your offer to 1.6, let the broker scoff, when they get back to you at 1.8 make a final offer at 1.7. Be prepared to walk away, but you might just get it.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 4:32 PM

4:32, how do you know it went for 2 - 2.1? They didn't take your 1.8, but that still leaves room below 2M.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 4:45 PM

That broker is gonna be sorry they didn't jump on your very generous 1.9 offer...

REALLY sorry...

The seller should fire them unless it is they who are the ones holding out for a higher price.

The brokers need to do a better job informing people of the changing market, if that is the case.

Even the HGTV programs have caught up with the times and I often hear things on "What is your House Worth" that talks about a declining market, etc.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 4:54 PM

4:45 I don't know for sure, but my broker intimated as such. I guess we'll know soon enough on propertyshark.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 4:58 PM

4:58, is 'your' broker the sellers broker? Here in Brooklyn the buyers do not get a broker. There are only sellers brokers.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 5:08 PM

who sells the 202 Prospect place house?

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 5:36 PM

Don't buy. It's like NASDAQ in 2000. Do some research on the historic ups and downs of real estate, here in NYC and beyond (start here, nychousingbubble.blogspot.com ). You'll be buying right before the pyramid collapses.

Well I tried to stop you. If you don't care about losses and missing out on deals, then yeah, help the current owners cash out before AY arrives. Hurry up now! Sign!

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 5:39 PM

"who sells the 202 Prospect place house?"

Co-exclusive between Warren Lewis and Brown Harris Stevens.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 7:12 PM

5:08...what are you talking about?

when i bought a place in brooklyn, i certainly used a broker for BUYING.

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 7:34 PM

This is a BAD area of Prospect Heights because of Atlantic Yards. If we had 2 million (which I don't, I admit) we would look in Clinton Hill. We have a friend who has just bought a beautiful brownstone there complete with a garden apt rental and lots of historic detail intact (and in good shape!!!! ) who just bought for 1.3. wowee

Even if you feel like you have to live close to the amenities of Park Slope don't waste your $ on this brownstone. In our opinion, sad to say, Atlantic Yards will bring nothing short of a nightmare to this part of Brooklyn (unless your a nets fan.....)

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 8:19 PM

I have information that a man who owned 3 brownstones on Berkeley Place between 7th and 8th in Park Slope has passed away.

His wife and daughter are trying to sell these, but I don't believe they are listed anywhere.

If interested (and I hear they want to sell them fast and cheap) maybe go take a walk down that street and check to see if there are any notes posted on the doors.

They are 193, 221 and 223 Berkeley. In need of major work, but could be a deal for someone interested...

Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 8:28 PM

8:28pm, if you have time, would you mind contacting me at s_taylor141@yahoo.com about these houses? I'm not a broker!

Posted by: guest at January 16, 2008 7:33 AM

I live around the corner from the Carlton Ave house so a few comments:

1. There was indeed a rumor about widening Carlton Ave but this is NOT going to happen. Check with FCR, ESDC, Norman Oder's AY Report blog or your elected officials and they'll all tell you the same.

2. This house is a 3-story with an English basement and much/most of the detail gone. It's fine but nothing fancy. Not really a house to fall in love with. Another house a few doors away was on the Prospect Heights house tour in 2004. By contrast, it has amazing detail and also benefitted from a very sensitive renovation with newly laid wood floors and great cabinetry. In another class altogether.

3. Even as a homeowner with a vest interest, I don't at all discount the AY effect. It can and should pull prices down in the immediate vicinity of the footprint --rationally, quality of life has to be negatively impacted by the construction. But because of the permanent brownstone supply and demand imbalance, the discount is probably only worth about 5-10%.

4. On the positive side, this is a fantastically convenient location with 2 subway lines only 2 blocks away, 24 hr shopping, restaurants, the park, the museum, BAM etc etc all very close. And Carlton Ave is one of the oldest and prettiest streets in Prospect Heights.

5. The problem with the this house -- and 202 Prospect Pl, while we're at it -- is that they were both over-priced from the get-go. More realistic pricing would have led to faster sales at better prices. My guess is that the Carlton Ave house will end up going for about $1.70 - $1.75.

Posted by: guest at January 16, 2008 12:52 PM

"And Carlton Ave is one of the oldest and prettiest streets in Prospect Heights." Not too sure about that - Some of the Prospect, Park Pl and Sterling blocks are much nicer - away from the hubbub of Flatbush. On Carlton the increased traffic will change the character of the street (quiet) immeasurably. And this is all without mentioning the house with all the rocks or the two bizarre renovations on the last brownstone block.

Posted by: guest at January 16, 2008 1:04 PM

I think Prospect Heights is actually a great location for the reasons 1:04 mentioned. Especially with way better and faster transportation located nearby, unlike what you get in Central Slope, South Slope or Sunset Park. I know I'm somewhat alone in sounding optimistic, with all the well-founded fears about AY construction, but I think for those looking at the long term they'll do well buying in Prospect Heights.

But this layout is terrible! It needs to be completely totally reconfigured inside on every floor. We're talking completely relocating the mechanicals in the basement, too. I don't understand their moving the boiler room and water heater to the front section of the basement that gets the most light. It's just strange. Nobody does that. I'd also for sanity's sake, rip out and soundproof the floor between the top floor rental and the owner's unit. Despite being gung ho about the location, I think this house should not be priced over $1.7 million. I'd pass and walk away.

Posted by: guest at January 16, 2008 1:36 PM

Hey 1:04p, some of us love the house with the rocks! For those not familiar with this particular neighborhood ecentricity, we're talking about the 5-storey house at the NE corner of Bergen and St Marks. The owner is an avid gardener and has created extravagant green jungles in the tree pits infront and near her house. It's all quite over the top but they are beautiful nevertheless. Make the gardening anarchy continue! Any y'know, as I think about it, this is exactly the kind of personal touch that will be wiped away by the cold, concrete towers of AY.

Posted by: guest at January 16, 2008 3:46 PM