poll: add a powder room to the main floor of a house or have a bigger, better kitchen?

We had the same issue and decided to build the powder room. It's so worth it.

Posted by: guest at January 1, 2008 9:34 PM

It's just a big hassle to go up and down stairs with kids to use the toilet. It's also great when you have guests over and you don't want them to go upstairs. I didn't sacrifice kitchen space (it's in the hallway)

Posted by: guest at January 1, 2008 9:48 PM

You can always have your guests pee in the kitchen sink. My vote is for powder room. We have a small three story house each floor about 700sf. Our kitchen is in the back, powder room in middle, and living room in front. We use the top two floors and rent out the ground floor cellar. The toilet and sink is just big enough for code and the door is off the center hallway and load bearing wall across from main staircase. We were able to place another small bar sink on the kitchen side that backs up against bath vanity sink. We use it all the time... has filtered water... tea/coffee station. What space left of the middle room is used as a library/office.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 12:21 AM

Keep in mind once your little ones learn to use the potty (say, age 2) they will only need assistance for about 1 year (age 3), maybe less. Then they can do it independently. So think of the decision in terms of what makes your life better in the long run. And, be realistic about guests. We made a lot of decisions based on "making it easy for our guests" and realized later that this was not really our lifestyle.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 12:27 AM

I would definitley put in the powder room - think of the resalle value. I would have a difficult time buying a house without a bathroom on the main floor. I would hate to have visitors go upstairs to the bedrooom area to use a toilet.

Also in the future if you plan to be in this house for the long run you will one day not want to make the trip up and down stairs to use a bathroom.. Just IMHO

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 7:46 AM

7:46 said:

"I would definitley put in the powder room - think of the resalle value. I would have a difficult time buying a house without a bathroom on the main floor. I would hate to have visitors go upstairs to the bedrooom area to use a toilet."

See, that's so interesting, because I come to completely different conclusions when confronting these same questions. For resale, a bigger kitchen is better. Stats support that. Kitchen is the #1 best return on renovation investment in a house. And as for guests, I actually think it's nicer for them to have some privacy. Think how embarrassing it is to go #2 at someone's house, open the door directly onto the kitchen and everybody on the parlor floor gets a whiff. You'll need to add a fan to help that, also so they don't feel like everyone can hear them. I only believe in main-floor bathrooms when the bathroom is down a hallway and discreet. Most Brooklyn houses are too small for a truly discreet and private bathroom or powder room on the main floor. To me this question is always evidence of people living in the city and wanting a suburban life in it. Sorry if that's condescending but I do think that.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 9:32 AM

"For resale, a bigger kitchen is better. Stats support that. Kitchen is the #1 best return on renovation investment in a house"

sure, but this stat is irrelevant.

kitchens provide the greatest return. but the stats don't reflect if there is a bigger return between "bigger kitchen/no bathroom" vs. "smaller kitchen/bathroom".

renovating a smaller kitchen will add some value. adding a powder room will also add value. will the sum of these 2 items add more value than renovating a larger kitchen? that's the question.

you are shoehorning this "statistic" into an argument where it doesn't fit.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 9:38 AM

I'm 9:48 - sure, it's only a year of assisting a toddler with the bathroom - but I also use the powder room to change my younger children, and to put the dirty diapers. But I like having my kid being on the same floor as me when I'm cooking instead of being up to something nefarious upstairs... The other thing to consider is the location. If the only place for the bathroom is in your kitchen or opens into your kitchen, absolutely not! Is there a way to have the door open into the hallway instead of the kitchen? Also consider the fact that you are not making your guests go #2 in the powder room, they have the option of going upstairs. It's up to them. And if you have kids, there are going to be a lot of playdates, birthday parties and it's nice to not have them go through the house to use the bathroom. I am pleasantly surprised at how much I do use the powder room. It's great for taking the kids for a last-minute pee before heading out the door. Also great for washing hands before meals (and not in the kitchen sink).

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 9:42 AM

I realized that some of you might have been talking about adding a powder room as a 2nd bathroom. But if you have two bathrooms already like we do, in basement and 2nd floor, then a 3rd bathroom is not the best investment if you're looking mostly at return. Also it's about what your neighbors are doing. Two bathrooms really is expected in a house or owners duplex in a house. But so is Central AC and we personally would never spend the money to add that then spend even more money to run it. One has to draw the line somewhere. Unless you have unlimited resources of course.

Excerpts from the NY Times in April 2006
Renovating With Profit in Mind? It Just Might Not Pay

"Last November's report, which also appeared in the December issue of Realtor magazine, said a minor kitchen remodeling would cost $14,913 and return 98.5 percent of that investment when the house was sold."

"Consider, for instance, the question of adding a bathroom. The Remodeling magazine report estimates that it would cost $22,977, with a 86.4 percent return, at best. But agents may say that a house with one bathroom in a neighborhood where two bathrooms is the norm is at a disadvantage when the house goes on the market. Mr. Baker said that the homeowner might then see a good return on the investment by making the house competitive. But, he said, someone adding a third bathroom to a house in that neighborhood might get little return."

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 9:58 AM

do you have an architect? is there a way to jam a powder room under the stairs? is there any other way to put in a tiny bathroom taking space from elsewhere?

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 10:13 AM

If there is a formal dining room, try knocking out the wall entirely between the kitchen and dining room, extending the kitchen along the wall of the dining room making it an eat-in kitchen. Then you get the powder room and a larger kitchen both. I myself prefer formal dining rooms even for eating everyday, but that's where I'm odd. Most people want open layouts and eat-in kitchens these days.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 10:22 AM

We added a powder room to our kitchen when we renovated, and I'm still very ambivalent about it. First off, pay no attention to "resale value" and all that stuff unless you are planning to move right away. This is your house and you'll be living in it - make it the way that's best for you. I don't like having a bathroom in my kitchen, simply for the reason that I don't like looking at the toilet in it as I'm cooking, which I spend a fair bit of time doing. I'm seriously considering taking it out - and like you, I could have a significantly nicer kitchen if I did (upon payment of a not small bill), or making it a bit smaller. There's a place I could jam it in in the dining room, or I could just go without. Our kids are older now, and they often use the upstairs bathrooms anyway. Our interior designer cautioned against putting a bathroom in the dining room, however. Bottom line for me is the downstairs powder room is nice to have, but not essential. Don't be afraid to go without it, if you really love to cook and spend lots of time in the kitchen.....

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 10:41 AM

Forget about resale value and what your guests would like -- think about your own family. In our brownstone, nearly all of the living is done on the kitchen/parlor floor. We have a full bath there. Like Ms. Limestone, we thought about making it smaller to expand the kitchen when we first renovated, and decided not to take out a tub already there. We do regret that decision (never use the tub), but I would HATE to live without just a small powder room on the parlor floor.

Our powder room's entrance is angled, and the door isn't by the kitchen (and gives a bit of privacy), so perhaps if I had to look into the toilet while I cooked I would think differently. But if the powder room is well-placed on that floor, I would bet that you don't regret having it. Our toilet was broken for a day, and it was such a pain to troop up stairs each time you wanted to wash hands or use the toilet. Especially with kids -- even my 8 yr old can't easily reach the higher kitchen sink to wash hands comfortably. Of course, you can always live without it, but I'd prefer a slightly smaller dining room or living space (or even kitchen) to having to change floors all the time, especially if most of your living is on that floor.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 10:57 AM

We don't have a bathroom on the parlor level and I've never missed it. The bathroom is right at the top of the stairs so no one goes into any bedroom areas. We had little kids in the house too and it just isn't a big deal to go up the stairs. I'd rather have the big counter space in the kitchen for messy art projects.

I've been in a lot of brownstones where the parlor floor powder room feels like it's in the middle of the action - no privacy.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 11:51 AM

We faced the same dilemma and went for the more spacious kitchen. The area we would have put a powder room is small and provides a little desk/computer/recipe book nook now. Guests have no problem making their way to the top of the stairs to use the facilities, and we also have a funky but functional basement half bath. The more I thought about having a bathroom right in my kitchen, well, ewwwww.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:20 PM

big kitchen!
add a 2nd bath on another floor.

bathrooms are overrated.

space space space is key.

main reason why i do not like brownstones is exactly this problem. too many small cramped rooms.

bought a 2 1/2 bath duplex condo. took out a bath to expand the living room, then upgraded the lower level bath by adding a full tub and shower.

love the above idea to open up the whole floor for open kitchen/dining plan.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:33 PM

SO weird to me people think there's a problem sending guests to the 2nd floor to the bathroom. I hate a whole group of people sitting there watching me enter and exit a bathroom if I'm a guest. Also if you have a large party you end up with a line for the bathroom right there where the party is going on, which is weird. Visible bathroom lines are okay for apartments but undignified for houses.

Our 2nd floor bathroom is also right at the top of the stairs and nobody goes near any bedroom doors much less into any bedrooms to use it. We also have a garden level bathroom. Two options for people. We have had many many parties and nary a complaint about having to use some stairs to use the bathroom. Our friends are healthy folk. Hearty. They're okay with stairs.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:49 PM

So weird that having a large party has anything to do with this. This is about how you live your life ALL the time. Do you and your family want to climb up stairs whenever you have to go? I don't understand why you can't have a configuration with a door that doesn't open right into the kitchen or main living area.

If you are fine always having to run upstairs, then you should definitely go without a powder room on the main floor. For me, I prefer the convenience for myself and family. The discussion as to preserving some dignified bathroom experience for guests isn't part of my thinking.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:21 PM

I vote for teeniest possible powder room. We use ours a LOT (2 children!), although I agree that the upstairs is more private for guests. You can put in a corner toilet and amazingly small but still functional sinks.

There are ways to extend your kitchen. For example, who says all the cabinets need to stay inside the kitchen? We have a nice cabinet made of the same natural maple the kitchen cabinets are that lives outside the kitchen "footprint." It holds the less-used appliances, pans, serving stuff, etc. Depending on how you look at it, it is a kitchen cabinet or nice dining hutch.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:25 PM