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December 17, 2007
Off Street Parking
I have a question regarding in off street parking
The houses concerned are 289 and 293 16th St, in Park Slope. They both have the same thing going on. I'll post the second picture on the next thread (maybe Mr B can squeeze them both in without distorting the scale)
From the photo you can see that the curb has been cut way. I know there is some sort of Grand Fathering with this feature
The actual part of the curb which is street level (were a car could pull into the house) is probably 3 ft wide. The part that is painted is probably 5 ft wide.
They are obviously serous about not parking due to the professional "No Parking" sign that's only recognizable if you're walking on the sidewalk
These are my questions
Is this legal?
If it is, then how can a 3 ft wide "driveway" be legal
If the 3 ft wide "driveway" is legal, is the 2 ft either side legal.
How do I find out if any of this is legal
If this is legal, who to I contact as to the ridiculousness of it all
They are three houses down from each other. That coupled with the fact that there is a fire hydrant involved, they "reserve" a bunch of space.
What to do………….
Comments
In Boston people used to reserve parking spaces all the time. I remember visiting someone in Somerville; when I parked the "owner" of the spot came out to tell me it was his. Didn't seem worth it to discuss it (didn't want brotken windows, etc). Can't be legal here. A new townhouse development near where I work (in the Bronx) has painted parking spots with house numbers on the street. They have also planted trees beyond the curb line into the street (surrounded by semi-circular bump-outs) to further the idea that these are private spots. I can't imagine they are, and am planning to make a complaint through 311. But to address your concern, I suspect the owners of these houses are long time residents, and would not be happy if challenged. You would be right, of course, but might suffer some vehicle damage. perhaps your best course of action is to make a complaint through 311, and see if the the "no parking' gets painted over. Let us know the result!
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at December 17, 2007 9:41 AM
I have the same problem in my neighbor except it's not the old timers but the new folks pulling this crap. Call 311 so they will send out a DOB inspector. The homeowner will be issued a violation if it's indeed an illegal driveway. More importantly, call the community police officer at your local precinct to ensure the police won't ticket near the illegal driveway.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:49 AM
These are illegal curb cuts and the "driveways" don't have the depth required for a legal driveway. Call 311 and lets get our on street parking back. There are blocks throughour Brooklyn where all of the street spaces have been eliminated by these illegal cuts.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:53 AM
10th street between 3rd and 5th - near this w/end's open house - is rife with these things. Saw one being "made" a few months ago. A home made sign, half days work for a couple of guys with some curb stone, a grinder and a bucket of paint, and hey presto. I don't think they're grandfathered so much as ignored by the city. Surely it's a ticketable offense to post a no parking sign without cause.
Obnoxious.
Posted by: Johnny at December 17, 2007 10:01 AM
Those look like wheelchair access ramps, rather than driveways. Is there any chance they're for a disabled person and not a car? I'm guessing not, given the steep stairs to the front door... But just wanted to raise the question before we all march over there with torches and stakes.
Posted by: gowanusaurus at December 17, 2007 10:07 AM
you should seriously mind your buisness, regardless if its illegal or legal.. If they havent' gotten the owner of the house yet, there is a reason for it. Its terrible that you have to post such a thing about someone else's personal property, Its wrong.. those people have probably been in this neighborhood before you were born and have to live with the *>?T for years and now you have to go on this site and post such a thing. If its bothering you so much that they don't have the heafty bank account that you do, throw em a few bucks and rent them a parking spot!!! You are invading someone elses personal property by posting a pic of their home on this site.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:37 AM
if they have space to park their lousy cars, let them. but i have a problem in some neighborhoods with jackasses saving spots with cones for themsleves in front of their homes.
Too bad i don't live in those areas or i would of so called the 311 on them. the reason they have it cause their neighbors don't speak english. so nobody complains about it and is afraid of them.
Posted by: armchairwarrior at December 17, 2007 10:49 AM
Guest 10:37 - What does this have to do with bank accounts? It is not an invasion of private property if you post a picture of someone's house. What they are doing is clearly wrong - making a public parking space into a private driveway. This is greedy and selfish regardless of home many millenia they have lived there.
I see the same problem on my block and it is largely a reason why parking is very tight in many Brooklyn neighborhoods. I would like to know an appropriate way to deal with it too.
There is such a thing as order and the rule of law.
Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 17, 2007 11:00 AM
10:37 - is that your house by any chance?
Kudos for posting this - whoever did that cut out should be fined.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at December 17, 2007 11:11 AM
newsouthsloper:
Yes it is an invasion. I agree that its a problem I myself have illegal parking spots on my block, but there is nothing you can do about it. Call 311 I am sure they have had Millions of phone calls regarding this issue about everyone with an illegal spot. But you have to remember that karma can be a bitch. Go ahead and call, most likely nothing will be done, they have had it since the beginning of time, they were here first and you shouldn't mess with the people who were born and bred here. People on that block were poor as hell and they don't need some newbie coming in and telling them what to do. and yes I agree that there is such a thing as order and rule of law, BUT most likely it will be in their favor.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:20 AM
11:20 AM
Cry me river.. You think it's okay to break the law because said homeowner happens to be an "old timer." The way I see it, due to the incredible increase in property values, the old timers should be kissing yuppies' behinds.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:26 AM
Its not my house Brooklynnative, Duh! Noone deserves being bombarded. Make your call everyone, do it, don't talk about it just freakin do it....complain, complain your little hearts away.. maybe you will get what you want and maybe you won't, will there be another POST about it! I am sure there will be! pathetic. you should be lucky that you live in this neighborhood and that you weren't pushed out because of you uppity attitudes and obnoxious postings.. I wish there was someone I could COMPLAIN to about that! I am sure you will feel great once a fine is issued to those people, yeah they deserve it. no really they do.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:42 AM
I dont want them to be fined, necessarily, I just want to be able to park wherever I am legally permitted to do so. Tell me 11:42, how many years do I need to be in my neighborhood before I can cut illegal spaces in the sidewalk at the expense of my newer neighbor's convienience.
How may years on a block does it take to earn more rights than my neighbors?
Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 17, 2007 11:49 AM
it has nothing to do with being an old timer fool.. and THE WAY I see it, you don't deserve this hood. Take your yuppie money and go back to where you came from! wait better yet, go to the house and tell them what you just told us instead of writing it on a BLOG. let me know when you do Id love to see it.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:52 AM
Its BS. I'm a cop and we see lots of this kind of crap. No cop is stupid enough to give a ticket to a car parked in a "phantom" driveway. Your car cant be legally towed without a ticket (if it is its considered to be stolen and charges can be brought against the tower).
Call 311, who will refer it to the DoB. They WILL send someone out to give a violation which should prompt the owner to quickly get rid of the no parking paint. 2nd violation is $2500 if its not removed after reinspection.
Posted by: MrHancock at December 17, 2007 11:54 AM
"Take your yuppie money and go back to where you came from!"
Yes, of course, the thread degrades to yet another bout of class warfare...
I bet if this post were about yuppies cutting spaces into sidewalks, there would be an outcry that "Yuppy Money" is taking away parking spots from "Us hardworking low income types who deserve it more."
Am I right here, 11:52?
Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 17, 2007 12:02 PM
Mr Hancock, thank you for the final say on this.
Newsouthsloper: its not about who deserves it more, for you its about my (your) money, my money makes it a better neighborhood I should do and say whatever I want whenever I want and Im a yuppie hear me roar! YOU made THE degrading comment. noone deserves a spot because of how little they make, duh! oh and by the way you Yuppies ( how you like to call them) have been given everything in this hood. AND my friend, it was my money and others who have contributed to this neighborhood and YOUR happiness. I would PAY to see you cut a curb. Noone gave a shit back in the day when people did it on their own. A little slice of reality.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:40 PM
OP, maybe you won't call 311 but I will. To piss off 11:42, and because the person who did that deserves to be fined. I think others should call as well.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at December 17, 2007 12:55 PM
Hmm, 12:40 - Think you are confusing me with someone else - The only degrading comment I saw was "Take your yuppie money and go back to where you came from!" - From you.
I never implied money is issue or that my money somehow makes it a better neighborhood. All I am saying is that I should be able to park wherever is legal and proper to do so, anywhere in the city - Period, end of story.
Little slice of reality for you: Nobody giving a shit years ago does not make it right, all of the money in the world does not give me the right to break the law, just like living on a block for 30 or 40 or 50 years does not give you any special rights either.
DUH!
Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 17, 2007 12:57 PM
DOB has been notified.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at December 17, 2007 1:41 PM
I wonder if DOB will waive the fine if the owner explains that he's been in the hood since back in the day?
Posted by: Brooklynnative at December 17, 2007 1:46 PM
Now let's keep our heads. There are all too many cars chasing all too few legal on-street parking spots today. It's an unintended consequence of affluence. And we all know Brownstone Brooklyn was not planned with off-street parking. What little there was is going for condos.
A legal remedy short of first-come-first- served-park-anywhere-at-anytime-for-as-long
as-you-want is not practical. Anyone have an idea?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:47 PM
Parking Lottery
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:58 PM
$10.00 gas will soon solve the problem - There will be a lot less cars on the street soon enough.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:00 PM
If each reader of this forum will call in all of the illegal curb cuts, front yard parking maybe we'll see some action from the City. Yes, there are too many cars, but we must all abide by the law. This problem exists boroughwide, not just brownstone Brooklyn. It's time for enforcement!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:06 PM
meet the jetsons!!!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:12 PM
I had a similar situation when I lived in Williamsburg. In addition to calling the buildings department, I also raised the issue at the precinct council meeting. A community affairs officer spoke with the homeowner and shortly thereafter the yellow paint on the curb was covered with black and the saw horse that used to sit in the street rode off into the sunset. Good luck OP.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:22 PM
10:37 - go fuck yourself
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:32 PM
I know this doesn't raise the level of discourse but Mr. 10:37-11:20-11:42-11:52 (and yes, that's all one person) you are an unbelievable douchebag.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:39 PM
What should be illegal is calling this Park Slope
Posted by: funstraw at December 17, 2007 3:40 PM
off street parking would be awesome. Everyone on the block should curb cut.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:51 PM
There are several curb cuts on 16th street that correspond to where Webster (and another street whose name I forget) cross. Webster is a one block street that ends at 16th. They are not curb cuts for an illegal driveway but for crosswalks. If this is a photo of that site,
you should just chill.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:08 PM
You fools! All of you. Guess what, the only one who came close to the vioce of reason was gowanasaurus 10:07. If you map the address, you can see that Webster Pl terminates here at 16th st. It is obvious that these are pedestrian ramps for crossing the street to Webster. Gee, that might explain why it's THREE FEET WIDE. Duh! And MAYBE, just maybe, the thoughtful resident at this address felt sorry for all the cars getting tickets and tried to help by painting a warning on the sidewalk. Fools on both sides of this class battle!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:11 PM
$2500 FINE I SEE THAT THE PROPERTIES DO NOT HAVE ANY HISTORY OF PERMITTED WORK.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:13 PM
When I lived in London, our block was permit parking only. You had to be a home owner in that particular area to hold a permit. Vehicles not displaying permits would get towed. Would resident permit parking work here?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:14 PM
4:11 I see what you mean about Webster Place, but I doubt it's for pedestrian crossing. First, look at the curb cut it's too big. Second, it's not done properly like the city would do it. It's obviously a cheapo job. Third, if it's for pedestrians how come there is no light, no stop sign, no paint nothing. I doubt it's for pedestrians.
4:14 Boston has resident parking and I think it's a good idea to try in Park Slope but not easy to institute.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at December 17, 2007 4:19 PM
4:14, that would be a problem for all you illegal immigrants coming in and buying our brownstones (kidding, people. relax).
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:22 PM
1:47: The best solution to difficult parking is to not have a car. I do it; it works great. Give it a try!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:23 PM
Hmmm, as a recepient of a whopping $165 ticket for parking in a newly created pedestrian ramp, I think 10:07, 4:08 and 4:11 may be on to something. Brooklynnative points out, "no light, no stop sign, no paint nothing," but there were none of those things where I got my ticket. If the curb cut lines up with the sidewalk on the street that T into 16th Street, this is probably for pedestrian mobility. Damn, and we were having such fun with 10:37 (and vice versa).
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:30 PM
I guess the real question to the OP is do actually see anyone parking here? Better yet, do you see the owner/resident of either of these addresses parking here?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:40 PM
OMG I still remember 10th st below 6th ave which has a fortress-like spray painted frontage and watches the spot outside their home business like a hawk. If you dare to park there this couple comes out and berates you with a very nasty attitude from the word go: "we already called the cops. You car will be towed". Blah blah. They've painted the curb way beyond a small curb cut, space for two cars.
They insinuated that if I didn't move the car it "might get damaged".
Nasty pieces of work.
And I was a neighbor, living one block over!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:43 PM
I live over in Kensington and a couple of variations on the theme happen here; one move is to extend the old 5' drive ways to make room enough to park an addition car on the street with one in the "driveway". The other is when a reno is done during the demo phase the dumpster is parked to hide the driveway, the side walk is broken up and when it is restored "ta da" a New or a New and Improved drive appears. Usually home owners of a certain religion.
A couple of home owners keep old cars that are never driven off the block in spots in front of their houses to keep people from parking in "their" spots. One has a big truck and will take his best shot at your bumber with his truck if your park too close to his DIY painted drive way.
Enforcement is a joke! These home owner are adding the cost of the fine(s) into the mortage.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 5:16 PM
i have a cool idea. just go out at 2am and spray-paint an off-white or grey to match the sidewalk color. paint over every "no parking" mark or lines they made. then you can go and paint over it every night if they try to re-paint it. also during this time call the DOB so that an inspector catches them vandalizing the sidewalk as they paint their no parking messages on it. you could also just hire a gas or electric company to come out and dig up their sidewalk to "fix" pipes underneath it or something. then when they walk out of their house there's a huge pit with workmen. then call the DOB on them. i have even more ideas but i'm gonna save them for later.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 6:01 PM
I want to let you in on something. I beat a $165 ticket for parking in a new unmarked wheelchair ramp where there was no stop light, no stop sign and, most important no wheelchair ramp at the curb opposite the one cited on the ticket. I also pointed out the idiocy of the ramp at that location in as much as there was no reason for pedestrian traffic. The ramp fronted on a 400 foot wall.
Some time later I confronted Mrs. Schumer, then Transportation Commissioner, at a public hearing about this. She suggested these tix were of dubious legality. You can guess the rest. All these ramps are now accompanied by NO STANDING ANYTIME signs. The bureaucracy hates to be confronted.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 6:02 PM
My husband has an old car that he rarely drives. It is usually parked in front of our home. Where is the crime? In Kensington most driveways, although not original to the houses, were installed at some time in the 30's and 40's to accomodate vehicles that were much smaller than the vehicles that are driven today. So what is wrong with legally widening the driveway. I rarely see anyone parking a vehicle in the street in front of their own driveways anyway. This usually prevents your neighbors on the opposite side of the street from manuevering into their driveway. As for the dumpsters, should they put them in front of your house?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 6:27 PM
4:08 and 4:11 are spot-on, I reckon. If you go to Google maps and plug in, in turn, the addresses of the two properties cited by the OP and zoom in, you will see that these cuts are precisely at the points where the sidewalks of Webster are on the other side of 16th. I'm sure glad, given that fact, that I didn't weigh in on this particular post with the venom and vitriol that I harbor in my heart for those who actually do create their own illegal private parking spaces.
Posted by: johnife at December 17, 2007 6:54 PM
The illegal curb cuts really are a double hit for the people pulling them off from the rest of us. The off-street, and generally ugly and out of context parking space, and then the remaining one on the street that everyone else is afraid to use. There is a former KoC hall on Hoyt between 2nd and 3rd where the over-under on this deal is about 6 parking spaces, all of them look questionable. I'm thinking of hitting 311 just to make sure.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 7:17 PM
didn't read all the way down but 2 comments:
1. the regulatory agency is NOT Buildings (DoB), it is Transportation (DoT).
If you hope to see any response, in addition to calling 311 go onto the city's web site (nyc.gov), go to the transportation dept. (agency) homepage and "contact the Commissioner". All city agencies must reply to email correspondence to an agency head.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 7:40 PM
Curb cuts are approved by the Department of Buildings. Complaints about possibly illegal curb cuts should be directed there as well.
Posted by: g man at December 17, 2007 8:06 PM
Another hilarious thread from the disgruntled.
Posted by: Ysabelle at December 17, 2007 9:06 PM
the really important burning question that Brownstoner needs to answer: when the cop comes to write you the parking ticket, do you tip him? if so, how much?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:17 PM
i say get rid of the gardens in carroll and everyone get a driveway...
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:35 PM
We all pay NYC taxes but some arse with a sense of entitlement thinks he should have a prvate parking spot. Go suck an egg.
Posted by: guest at December 18, 2007 8:45 AM
There was a study done back in Howard Golden's days which found that most of the driveways in Brooklyn were illegal, either because they were built without a permit or weren't being used in compliance with the law.
The law requires that a curb cut must either be accompanied by an enclosed garage (e.g. not a car port) or off-street parking a minimum of eighteen feet from the public right of way (e.g. the sidwalk). There have been relatively few variances granted which make exception to this law. In other words, if you see a car parked on what would otherwise be the home's front lawn, the probability is almost certain it's an illegal driveway.
We have a lot of problems with this in Bay Ridge too, especially when row house owners get second cars or rent out illegal apartments. Then these idiots park those cars the sidewalk. There are four row houses on 68th St off Ridge where parking is brazenly illegal, sometimes completely obstructing the sidewalk.
Posted by: rowhouse at December 18, 2007 10:04 AM
I just got back from a CB-9 meeting where the board voted to support two Intros proposed by Tish James.
One would end self-certification for curb cuts; the second would empower the City to repair [i.e. remove] illegal curb cuts and bill the property owner.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 18, 2007 9:43 PM
Even though these look like ped ramps, there is a problem with entitlement parking here.
I used to live across the street from condos in Carroll Gardens. The condos had legal curb cuts and driveways - no big deal there. The problem was when one of the condo owners told me I couldn't park my motorcycle in the section between curb cuts (about 4-5 feet long, only enough for a bike or Mini Cooper) because it was HIS spot. They would park one car in the driveway, and the other on the street blocking their own curbcut.
I knew I was in the right, but I wasn't about to argue with him nor park my bike there again, because I'm sure he would have just knocked it over with his FUV.
Posted by: guest at December 19, 2007 12:15 PM
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