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November 29, 2007
Length of Time for your Rehab/Renovation
I had an interesting situation posed to me today. Someone is looking to rehab/renovate a rowhouse in Crown Heights. I inferred from the conversation that she wants to complete the all the work, by hiring a contractor to do everything, before she occupies the house. She was shocked with the price tag of that scenario.
While what she was describing is probably the ideal scenario (for me, at least), I suspect that most people of modest means (including the woman to whom I was speaking) can't afford it. So, for my own curiosity:
1. How long did your complete renovation take, and did you phase it? If so, how?
2. Did you live in the house as the work was in progress?
3. What percentage (estimate) of the work did you do yourself?
Thanks!
Comments
3 out of 4 floors of our brownstone took nearly a year. This was 50/50% DIY/contractor and plumber, floor guy, woodworker, etc as needed.
We lived there and moved from floor to floor as we worked on the house. 1 floor needed to be gutted, the rest was partial gut. Electric and plumbing were moved and upgraded, 2 new kitchens and baths were installed. Zoned heating put in. Structural work:check. It was a restoration more than renovation (reno would've been cheaper and taken less time!) Including the final floor, which we're slowly working on now (DIY), it cost about $150k. We saved by using mostly salvaged fixtures instead of new. And doing alot of the work ourselves.
Posted by: rh at November 29, 2007 3:50 PM
4 floors gutted, 8 months, didn't live there, all in - 1m, 0%.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:52 PM
4 months to get the plans finished and approved, find the contractor, get permits. 5 months to have a total rehab done by the contractor. 1 month for other little finish things.
Virtually no DIY, costs about 400K for a reasonably priced contractor and high end materials, didn't live in the house.
As an aside - im discounting the time it took me to earn the money as well as the emotional costs of living through it. If I count that you can multiple the time and cost by 4.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:29 PM
We gutted the kitchen, bath, and built out the garage. It took about 6 weeks, though there was a mystery week or 2 where the contractor wandered off. We lived there, have only the one bathroom, and it was HELL. My husband did some of the tiling, and built the ikea kitchen cabinets. He now says he wished he'd done it all himself, no matter how long it took, because at least he wouldn't be having to do things like re-tile the shower base now. Peeing in a laundry sink is no fun, nor is having no walls in February. Do not recommend our method.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:32 PM
25 years, the most active being since Jan '07. We are not done yet.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:48 PM
We moved in to our Sunset Park rowhouse in October 2004. Gutted pretty much everything except for the room we were living in. We're doing most work ourselves with the exception of plumbing, electric, and plastering.
Temporary kitchen for a year (microwave, toaster oven, etc). Temporary bathroom for three. Nothing is done, although the half-bath is down to a punchlist, and much of the space is now relatively liveable. Although it's still not safe to be barefoot in most of the house.
I think if we did an accounting of how much it has cost, we would cry. At least I would.
Posted by: saturdayrenogirl at November 30, 2007 12:59 AM
300k for six units 4 months. total gut. only shell was left.
Posted by: armchairwarrior at November 30, 2007 8:25 AM
Looking at some of the prices you paid, I'm wondering, does 125K then for a gut garden floor kitchen and bathroom reno that we're planning with non-high end appliances and IKEA cabinets sound reasonable? It might also involve replacing the boiler with a small high efficiency one, a French drain and moving the kitchen sink and some windows. Most will be done by the contractor. No architect involved.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 8:35 AM
Moving windows would definitely require filing drawings sealed by an RA or PE or is it just the sink that's being moved? Technically moving the kitchen sink would require filing, too. The plumber of record is supposed to file a boiler replacement.
Is the $125K supposed to cover an electrical upgrade? Are you totally gutting the place -removing all finishes, subfloor, wiring, etc?
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 10:07 AM
This is 8:35 again. Thanks 10:07.
It's one of the design-build firms we may go with that has an architect who files drawings for permits.
As for the wndow, it's just one of the extension windows, in the cinderblock wall, nothing in the front of the house. Sink is moving a few feet too. Yes, there would be an electrical upgrade and most probably rewiring, with extra outlets, outlets for the DW, range, MW, etc. Most walls will be gutted, with a new floor slab, moving a drain pipe, washer dryer hook-ups in the extension (there are none now). The bathroom will need plumbing for a small sink only, new tiling, walls. Also new stairs to the parlor floor.
It's garden floor with no basement/ cellar (English basement).
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Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 11:52 AM
What's a french drain?
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:20 PM
To above: hope you never find out! Outside drain helps flooding basements.
We stayed in upper 2 floors which were apts, while we fixed lower 2, which had been cleaned up (stripped of baths/kitchens and skimmed, sort of). Garden floor added kitchen+plumbing, walls for closets and separation; parlor floor kitchen+plumbing+ electrical, all floors sanded and repaint throughout. This took 4 months and approx $40k. Only did IKEA cabinet assembly myself.
Upper floors: remove 2 kitchens, convert 1 to laundry room, redo 1 bath, sand floors, replace all molding and doors, repaint Done over 2 years off and on. We had the luxury of a triplex, so could go live on another floor while construction went on. Not sure I'd recommend it, have to clean plaster dust off constantly. We spent less than $90k in all, including appliances, etc.
Only gut tearout was the bath, barely. I would strongly recommend NOT doing the destroy and rebuild scenario, regardless of what architects (particularly) and builders recommend. If nothing else, don't add to the construction waste stream more than you have to. Much renovation can be done without complete teardown. Even electrical and plumbing redo. And it's better for everyone.
On the other hand, seeing how the high-end renos get all the kudos…I’m in the minority here.
Posted by: cmu at November 30, 2007 2:26 PM
to clarify: electrical was only additional lines for kitchen (5 in all). there's no parlor bath. apt bath was only cleanup with new fixtures, no major plumbing. crown molding not replaced. painted (but wood) molding.
Posted by: cmu at November 30, 2007 3:38 PM
Almost total gut, 4 floors, all new wiring/plumbing/kitchens/baths. 6 months for actual renovation; 4 months prior for architect/plans/bidding out. We thought our contractor was very fast -- got one unit ready in 2.5 months. Whole thing was probably $500K. Zero work ourselves & didn't live there. We couldn't have done it this quickly any other way.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:44 PM
CMU,
Wow! I should have you look at some of the estimates we've gotten. Seriously, and you can tell me if they're padded. Nothing less than 100K. Who did you use?
Y.C.
Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 11:19 AM
Almost all were small companies or handymen, so I suppose I acted as GC. We're not as picky as many seem to be, and go with the flow. So it's not high-end, maybe not even medium end, though we did use real wood trim and doors, low voc paints. Our kitchen was in the series here (no idea how to find it, but it would give you an idea.)
As an example, bath: we took out a 5' wall since there was a 2' corridor with a tiny bath off it; added 2 doors & trim, floor (small hexagon) and tub (4" mexican) tiles redone (rest drywall), new sink. Labor was about 6k; sink <1k; cabinet, towel rails etc 1k, tiles 2k. Done by 2 guys in abt 1 week. Painted ourselves.
Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 11:53 AM
8.35, we paid 55k for total gut of kitchen, bathroom, moved plumbing and walls, built out garage, radiant heat put in kitchen, and new hot water radiators put out to garage. Yes, we are having some trouble with details like tiling, but over all 125 for 2 rooms seems a lot when you see how much we got done for 55. Cost of ikea cabs not included, tile was another 2k on top.
Posted by: guest at December 1, 2007 1:56 PM
We completely renovated 4 floors (the garden unit was a complete gut; the owner's unit, upper 3 floors, was a complete renovation but not a true gut). We generally didn't live there while doing it, but we moved into the rental unit for the last 2 months of construction on the owner's unit. From when we closed on the house, 6 weeks for design & plans, 4 weeks for permits, moved into the garden 8 months later and done 2 months after that. ~$550K (about $170/sq ft).
Posted by: guest at December 2, 2007 5:06 PM
I renovated/restored 3 out of 4 floors and I did it in stages -- total 2 years for 3 floors and totally new hallway, backyard, roof, basement refurbishment. It is a 3 family, 4 floors and I did one floor in 3 months - new kitchen, bath, new floors including leveling of floors and reinforcing of joists, removal of one wall, new closets. I had a tenant in the duplex which I wanted to renovate for my own use with 8 months on her lease (not counting the 2 months I spent evicting her...) After getting rid of that mess, the next project was my duplex which required extensive work, all new floors including floor leveling, reinforcement of floors from basement, new kitchen (nightmare with kitchen supplier which delayed me months,) tree removal in backyard (emergency) which also delayed work since debris needed to be brought through the house, paver brick patio installation, all new windows in the house, new staircases, both internal and in hallway, new hallway marble floors, refurbished vestibule, basement repairs and new concrete floor, roof repairs, new front doors, etc. I added details like marble fireplaces. I had a contractor who was cheap and some things worked out and some things were terrible with him. It was a very difficult time when I wound up being general contractor. I spent about 240,000 dollars for that work, which took about 2 years. I lived in multiple places during different phases of the work -- only briefly in the midst of the renovation, which is a perscription for losing your sanity. Anyway, I am sure that if I spent more money on an architect and a more professional contractor, the work would have been faster and smoother in retrospect, but my hands on work resulted in the attention to detail that I wanted. It just took a long time to get educated myself.
Posted by: donatella at December 3, 2007 1:40 AM
This is 8:35.
Donatella, I have been trying to contact you about Manny Le Salle, the FP guy. I cannot initiate posts here because Brownstoner won't give me a @@*$)@&$ ID. They won't even respond to my e-mails. So please e-mail me at yash7@aol.com.
1:56, who did you use for your reno? Would you recommend them? We will also be supplying the cabinets, tile, etc.
I am at present torn between paying bucks for someone competent and hassle-free (relatively) and going the 'Be your own contractor' route.
Posted by: guest at December 3, 2007 3:03 PM
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