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November 5, 2007
Best way to deal with an unreasonable neighbor?
Dear Reasonable People,
I live in a small 6-unit coop building in Carroll Gardens. Last winter we had some major issues with one resident repeatedly setting the common building thermostat to 78-80 degrees, so we replaced the thermostat with a Tekmar boiler control in the basement (which has the additional advantage of providing finer control over the building heat). Now, everyone in the building is much more comfortable, except for the same resident, who is throwing a fit that borders on psychotic.
She claims that it's freezing cold in her apartment, when the rest of the building is 74 degrees or warmer. But she refuses to let anyone in to investigate the problem, and she refuses to put a thermometer on her wall to prove that it's cold. At first, she acted out by leaving angry phone messages, yelling at us in the hallway, and stomping around in her bedroom (which is above my living room). But now we feel like she's putting us in danger - she started leaving her oven on all day to add heat to the apartment.
I've been in her apartment before (when the situation wasn't so hostile). It didn't feel any different, temperature-wise, from the other units. She has working radiators and new well-insulated windows. And she now has two additional 1500W oil-filled electric space heaters (one of which I personally gave her). So her motivation must be a combination of her being naturally cold (possibly due to some medical condition?) and feeling like she has no control over the situation. But the fact is that her behavior was unreasonable before she started causing a fire hazard, and now we have a duty to ourselves to do something about the problem.
What do you Brownstoners think we should do? Do we have legal options? Should we talk to the city? Is there anything we can do without starting an all-out war between neighbors? Help!
Comments
Does the coop have a lawyer? Have you consulted her/him?
What about the bylaws? Do they say anything about what constitutes a violation of the proprietary lease?
I would look at those things first to see what steps you need to take to let this woman know she may be endangering her ability to live in the coop. Obviously it would be a giant PITA to actually throw her out, but a well-worded letter from the coop's lawyer telling her she's in danger of violating the proprietary lease might cause her to rethink her behavior.
If her coldness is caused by a medical condition or disability, you might also want to tread carefully because I suppose it's conceivable that she could have a discrimination claim if the coop is unwilling to make reasonable accomodations to make her comfortable in the face of a disability (if she has one). Of course, that would *not* include letting her leave the oven on all day, which is just insane. But that would be something to check with your lawyer as well.
Posted by: hangonsloopy at November 5, 2007 1:02 PM
I'm just curious on your behalf, what does the city do about heat complaints? I know you can log heat complains with 311 and the city has certain standards for temperature based on the time of year. But how does a caller substantiate the claim? Does the city actually visit the apartment and check the temp? Maybe if the city can disqualify her claim it will deflate her position and place you on firm legal footing.
Posted by: cornetor at November 5, 2007 1:28 PM
maybe this person's real problem is a mental health issue, not one related to heat. any chance you could talk with someone in her family to figure out if she needs some psychological help?
Posted by: guest at November 5, 2007 1:36 PM
Well, even if she has a (physical) medical condition, we have gone way beyond making reasonable accommodations - after discussing with her at a board meeting, we offered to get an additional radiator installed (at the building's cost). I scheduled a heating engineer to come look at her apartment but she refused to let him in.
And it's not like we're trying to keep the heat down near the legal limit - the building has an oversized boiler and tends to be a good bit warmer than most people would prefer. I've never seen it cooler than 73 degrees inside.
As far as getting our lawyer involved, I'm worried that the board (which includes all six units) won't have the stomach for it. There is a genuine concern that pushing the issue will make all of our lives that much worse via even greater hostility. On the other hand, maybe communicating via the lawyer would help depersonalize the situation somewhat.
Posted by: airportbeaver at November 5, 2007 1:50 PM
cornetor - I'm not sure how the city responds. She threatened to call the city once, but I'm not sure if she did it. It was 60 degrees outside at the time, and the city law doesn't kick in until it's 55 degrees.
Posted by: airportbeaver at November 5, 2007 2:07 PM
That's some story. I've had tenants who like their apartment really warm but this sounds really crazy. I think you need to talk to a lawyer. She owns her coop and is not letting you in to help her, she's angry and sounds like she may have emotional problems. This could get worst. She doesn't sound like she is moving out so if she keeps the oven on that's a risk to everyone in the building. You better consult a lawyer and get this ironed out asap.
Posted by: Rick at November 5, 2007 2:29 PM
Boy, what an unenviable situation. Here is what NYC requires:
From 6:00 am - 10:00 pm, if temp is 55° or lower outside, it must be over 68° inside.
10:00 pm - 6:00 am, if temp is 40° or lower inside, it must be over 55° inside.
I agree with the lawyer route and the friend route. I had a tenant with the same complaint, but she let us put up a thermostat, and she quickly discovered that we were always well above compliance.
But clearly you are not dealing with a reasonable person. Is she elderly?
Posted by: tinarina at November 5, 2007 2:43 PM
Not to be nasty, but what *would* the board have the stomach for? Waiting for you all to be incinerated when her oven blows up the coop? It seems like you've done everything short of calling in the lawyer, and she hasn't been reasonable, so it's time to take it up a notch.
Good luck, it really sounds like a tough situation - and I think you're right that bringing in the lawyer might make it a little less personal.
Posted by: hangonsloopy at November 5, 2007 2:55 PM
She's not elderly. Probably late 50s or early 60s.
Sounds like there's some consensus on speaking with a lawyer...
Posted by: airportbeaver at November 5, 2007 2:55 PM
Wow, this really puts into perspective the really very minor grievances I occasionally have with my fellow co-op neighbors... Good luck!!
Posted by: guest at November 5, 2007 3:22 PM
Its too late for this to be handled in a non-acrimionious fashion. Sounds like you're dealing with someone irrational, who you either need to shut the hell up or get the hell out. Only way to accomplish either goal, given her refusal to allow anyone in the apartment to try to remedy the heat "issue", is to initiate legal proceedings to terminate her proprietary lease. Either she will back off/settle if she doesn't have the means to defend the lawsuit, or you will be tied up in litigation for a very long time.
She might get rational very quickly if she faces the loss of her proprietary lease.
One question: How do you actually know she's leaving her oven on all day if she won't let you in the apartment?
Posted by: Emigre at November 5, 2007 3:34 PM
Emigre: she told us. I guess it was her way of "proving" what she has to do to stay warm. And then one day she left for work and forgot to turn the oven off, and had to call someone in the building to turn it off.
Posted by: airportbeaver at November 5, 2007 3:52 PM
What about a non-working thermostat in the hallway? I don't know anything about the ethical issues or legality, but in some studies in workplaces they found that people reported that they were much more comfortable when they could adjust the thermostat - even when it was non-working and didn't actually impact the temperature. They just didn't know that.
If it's a psychological issue, then it might help.
Posted by: Heatherie at November 5, 2007 4:06 PM
There is always the chance that the carbon monoxide build up from the burning stove will solve all your problems.
Posted by: guest at November 5, 2007 5:36 PM
You think you have problems now. Wait till she calls 311.
Legally you have to give the city access. It doesn't matter whether it is rent controlled, condo, whatever.
Posted by: Ysabelle at November 5, 2007 7:30 PM
Sounds like it's a good thing for the city to have access though, Ysabella. If the city checks it out and takes the temp inside her apartment, it would prove this woman is a nutcase and her apartment is not as cold as she claims it to be.
Posted by: guest at November 5, 2007 8:11 PM
Assuming that there are no structural issues with her apartment -- serious drafts, due to damaged masonry outside, broken windows, etc., it seems that the person is mentally ill; you also have a safety issue. You need to first see if someone can talk to her, if not, get help from a family person. If not you need to address it legally.
Posted by: donatella at November 5, 2007 8:57 PM
I live in an 8-unit coop and we have always had trouble keeping everybody happy with the heat. The Tekmar boiler control sounds like a great solution - can you provide the plumber's name who installed it? As far as your neighbor, it definitely sounds like she's mentally unstable and the oven issue alone makes it worthy of calling a lawyer - she is putting your entire building in danger!
Posted by: guest at November 6, 2007 9:52 AM
Our co-op had the same issue with one
complaining shareholder... she called the city, they came an inspected and found that our co-op was in total compliance with heat regulations ( actually much better than just "the letter of the law" )
Let her call the city...
Perhaps she has a thyroid problem... quite common ... can make a person feel very cold.
Posted by: bren at November 6, 2007 10:36 AM
Heatherie: great suggestion. We actually left the thermostat in the hall for just that reason, but she found out that it's not working.
About the Tekmar: B&D Heating on Court St. (718-625-1396) did the installation. The electrician's name was Chris. No plumbing necessary (they just install a sensor on an exterior wall and another sensor on the supply pipe coming out of the boiler; the rest is all wiring). We installed the Tekmar 256. Be prepared to fiddle with the settings for a while as you dial in the heating curve, but once you get it right, it's much more comfortable than a thermostat. Proportional heating is a very good thing.
Posted by: airportbeaver at November 6, 2007 10:39 AM
bren: A thyroid problem sounds like a good guess to me. What do most people do to cope? Put on more sweaters? Take medication?
I'll keep you all posted on any success we have with the mental health angle. I'm not sure we have any contacts with her family.
Posted by: airportbeaver at November 6, 2007 10:44 AM
Underactive thyroid can make someone feel colder than it actually is, but you usually have other things going on as well (ie the body slows down, so weight gain, lethargy, depression, etc). Could be mental illness, you can call a mobile crisis team to evaluate her (try Kings County or Woodhull), but she refuse them access. If she is leaving her oven on and creating a dangerous situation, that may be another story and they may be able to go in over her protests.
Posted by: guest at November 6, 2007 11:32 AM
As a former 311-operator, I'd like to correct some misinformation. The Department of Housing Preservation and Development will not take action in a condo / coop unless the individual making the complaint is renting the unit from the owner.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:25 AM
if she's really leaving the oven on all day/night then the buildup of carbon monoxide in her apartment (especially over a weekend) will soon resolve the situation for you :)
on a more serious note, contact your local fire department. there has to be some sort of fire code violation for having a combustible material based heater (i.e. oven) in a residential space
in the meantime make sure your carbon monoxide detector is working/has fresh batteries.
Posted by: guest at November 9, 2007 10:37 AM
Thanks for all of the helpful information. I'm not the original poster, but I'm dealing with a mentally ill neighbor and found this site via a Google search for mentally ill neighbor & co-op apartment. The mobile crisis intervention information is very helpful and I've found the one for my borough, which I'll be printing out the contact info for & keeping on my refrigerator door.
Posted by: guest at February 11, 2008 5:25 PM
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