Putting in an offer

Realtors do all they can to push people to make an offer without thinking too long about it. So they'll say there's other interest. We got told there was another offer on our place too, which we knew wasn't true.

How long has the place been on the market? If it's been a month or more, I'm not sure I'd believe there's another offer.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 4:52 PM

At the last 3 houses I saw, I was told by the broker that there were already offers over asking. I doubt it was true in all 3 instances.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 4:59 PM

Related question: what do brokers say when they want you to outbid other offers, or when they are looking to create a bidding war? Are they supposed to give you numbers? Is this whole thing just one big poker game then, since you'll never know the truth?

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 5:01 PM

5:01- that is exactly what I want to know too. How can we (buyers) even know we are bidding against anyone? This is all blind, which seems strange. We were told there was another offer on a place that we liked, that the seller thought was OK. So he wanted a "best and final" offer from both of us. But how do we even know there is another offer? The realtor have told us a few specifics about the other offer in terms of how they are willing to pay, etc. But I'm starting to get doubts on whether there is even another offer on the table.

Is there any way to find this out or do we just have to walk away if we feel they are screwing with us (or alternatively suck it up and deal with it).

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 5:10 PM

Get a big straw and start sucking it up!

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 5:53 PM

I've been working for 4 years as a re agent. I work my agency's listings and those of other REBNY agencies. I have never heard of any agent lying about this to get an offer. I think if you are this doubtful about the whole experience you probably have to be in a situation where you lose out on a couple of homes you were interested in because you acted too slowly, or were too mistrusting, in order to get used to the idea that this is a very active, healthy market. Real estate agents with decent reputations at firms that have good reputations have a great incentive to tell the truth because they care about their reputation. Also it is against NYS Real Property Law and they and their agency can get in to major trouble. I have been in situations where sellers have asked me to lie about offers on the table when there were none and I had to gently explain to them that this isn't something we can do for them. It all works out right in the end. Only bid what you want to bid on, and at whatever price you want to bid. You should automatically assume that in a city this big that if you think something is nice and a decent value that others will see that as well. Good luck.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 5:58 PM

5:58- OP here. That is the info I was kind of looking for. I wanted to see whether it was conceivable that RE agents would do this. My gut was telling me no, but I wanted to double check. Your words are reassuring- thanks!

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 6:10 PM

There are many honest agents, and there are also many DIShonest agents. Yes, it is absolutely conceivable that a broker would lie, it happens all the time. You have to gauge the situation, go with your gut, but mainly know what your ceiling is and how much you really want the property (or not).

As an anecdote, a broker from a reputable firm told me on my first visit to a property that they already had multiple offers, and that many of them were over the asking price. The property was "hot, hot, hot" I was told (this is verbatim). Well, I couldn't have cared less, since I didn't like the house. This was over eight months ago. Guess what? That house is still on the market, AND the price has been reduced AND it's in a prime, extremely desirable area of Brooklyn. I know deals fall through and things happen, but I believe the broker lied big time.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 6:38 PM

"I wanted to see whether it was conceivable that RE agents would do this."

You can't be serious? You wanted to know whether RE agents are capable of telling a lie?

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 6:44 PM

OP here. It's not just 1 lie. This agent has told me that there is another offer, told me that the seller is collecting "best and final offers", then told me that there is an all cash offer on the table but the seller will go with our offer if we can cough up a bit more. It's taking a lie pretty darn far and it is hard to believe that agents will do that. However, I just called a family friend who is a real estate agent in DC and he confirmed that absolutely agents do lie all the time. Hmmm... will have to think about this a bit and really as people have said - it comes down to the question of how much we want this place. And maybe the answer is not that much.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 6:49 PM

Congratulations on asking yet another stupid question on this site! Did y'all just get here on the wagon from Kansas and wonderin' if you can get cheated in this big bad city? YES! Any time there is money involved and people working on commission, lying will happen. Not everyone, but if you really are obtuse enough to ask such a dumb question, my guess is that you managed to find an agent who will lie to your stupid face.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 6:49 PM

Bottom line is do you want the property and do you think the price asked is right. Who cares if the real estate agent lies or doesn't lie. Who cares if there are other offers or not. Offer what you think is right if you want the property, if accepted great - if asked to go higher and you think it's not worth it - don't go higher. Keep it simple!

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 7:14 PM

Regardless folks it really comes down to put in whatever offer you feel comfortable putting in. And if they want to accept your offer they will. What you are looking for from your real estate agent is a sense of how to get the listing I think. And if you don't trust your agent you can't rely on them anyway for advice. The best advice for any listing you want of course is to bid as high as you can. Would you want to buy it for less money if you could, sure. But then just be prepared to lose it if they don't accept your offer. It's pretty simple. Only 1 person is going to get the place no matter what. So bid low and be prepared to walk away or bid high and try to get it. Or just wait and see. Sometimes other offers don't get accepted. But my last listings all went way over asking price. Not what you buyers want to hear I know, but it's true. And most of my buyers have lost out in recent bidding wars. Again, only 1 person is going to get a property. And usually the sellers go with the one with the most money on the table.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 7:39 PM

7:18- OP here. Great suggestion. I'm going to talk to my lawyer in the morning about that possibility. I'm still not clear on what "proof" would be since the RE agent writes up the offer anyway (and they could therefore fake it I guess). But that's a good suggestion and I'll look into it.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 7:53 PM

OP - you're wasting your time talking to your lawyer about this. If your lawyer is any good he/she will tell you, you will have no recourse. If you are in this game to challenge the integrity of brokers then continue on your current course - wasting time; if you're in the market to get a property, get focused. Frankly, if I were a seller (which I am right now) I would not want you to be the buyer (you definitely come across as a problem buyer).

BTW - I am NOT a broker. I'm having problems w/ the incompentency of the broker who is selling my properly right now - but I'm locked in a contract - I made a poor choice and I'm just dealing with it!

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 8:13 PM

Look--RE agents are salespeople. And as someone already pointed out, they represent the SELLER. Salespeople must, by the nature of their profession, exaggerate, spin, lie (small and/or big time, depending on the agent)in order to sell their product. It's that simple. Just be aware and know whether you want the house and how much you're willing to pay for it.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 11:37 PM

Yes! Brokers lie all the time. But you should never allow yourself to be pressured into making an offer on a place you're not 100% sure about--it's a major investment! Who gives a shit what nonsense the broker says! It's not a pair of shoes, it's a house!!

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 11:42 PM

This happened to me. I got tired of the run around and just called the seller. Our broker was not fond of the idea but did not get in the way. She was a lovely person and also had no way of knowing if the "other offer" was legit. As it turned out, the seller didn't even believe that the offer was real. It is our belief that the other broker was, more or less, making up an offer to try to kill our deal. No surprise that his name rhymes with Schminsky. As much as possible, the seller and I removed our broker from our dealings. We even signed the contract without a broker present. It all worked out beautifully. My advice is -go around the broker if you want a straight story. Do your own negotiating with the seller. The broker still gets paid. Everyone is happy.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 9:50 AM

Real estate agents keep pretending like this is the way it is done and you, the buyer, just have to make your best offer. The truth is that this is just wrong and encourages lying and an possibly an inflated housing market. There should be a regulation in place that demands that all offers are made on legal, signed documents and that all offers are open information so that no one has to guess about whether a real estate agent or owner is lying to them. This is a relatively simple regulation that would do a world of good in the Brooklyn housing market.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 12:09 PM

I'm concerned for OP. If you even have to question whether or nor RE agents are capable of lying, you are probably in way over your head and will need a lot of advice throughout the whole process or you may end up getting royally screwed. Proceed with great caution into the real estate world, my friend, but you may want to consider renting from here on out. Please don't post in a few months asking if contractors are capable of lying too.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 12:39 PM

12:39 -So condescending- Yeesh! Why, why, why?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:21 PM

It's like 12:39 believes nobody buys a place for the first time. OR, and here's a clue, 12:39. Not everyone is from NYC. You know that right? Common practices differ from place to place. It's completely utterly logical for somebody to ask a community what they have found to be the norm, with realtors. NYC real estate is unique. One would assume the realtors are unique too.

Der. The OP is not the dumb one here.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:26 PM

2:26- So condescending- Yeesh! Why, why, why?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 2:38 PM

bid what you can afford regardless of who else is binding. It's the only thing you can do.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 4:09 PM

If something is just on the market and the open house was busy, then they may well have an offer or see one coming down the pipe.

if the place has been listed for a while then don't listen to anything they say about other interest. Blah blah i'm not listening.. just offer what you think, and wait.

Even if you do believe there is another offer, don't trump it unless you don't care about value. Offers fall through all the time especially right now. You want to be the one to trump an offer that wasn't going to go thru anyway? much better to be #3 or #5 and get a call a month later: oh the other buyer flaked, are you interested at that price?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:35 PM

We were told the same thing you were about a place we were interested in last year (all-cash over-ask offer on the table; seller really likes you; best-and-final requested, but you need a higher offer and better financing), and most of it turned out to be totally and utterly false. So yes, they *do* lie...even if it's against the law or professional ethics for them to do so...and, like others noted, you don't have any recourse. The only thing you can do is dig deep and try to determine how much the property is worth by checking the comps, and adding to that price the intangible factor of how much it's worth to you.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:51 PM

Aha! So the line "the seller really likes you" is common then?

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 8:28 PM

I had a buyers agent for the house I just bought. It definitely made the process a lot less full of BS for me. My broker was able to double check the story I was getting from the seller's agent and give me the straight scoop. But it can be expensive if the listing agent is one of those that refuses co-brokers. (I really wish people would stop using those agencies - they bring down the whole Brooklyn RE market.)
However - asking for "best and final" offers doesn't sound to me like it's an indication the broker is lying. I sold my last house in a bidding war, and my broker said the same thing to the various bidders. It might interest you to know that I didn't accept the highest offer, either - I accepted the offer from the people I most wanted to have the house and that I thought would contribute the most to the neighborhood I was leaving.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 9:43 AM

Geez Howard can you promote yourself some more? have some shame, some of us can smell ur BS even in cyberspace. Did it ever occur to you that maybe some of us that have dealt with you would be reading this?

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 10:47 AM

"It might interest you to know that I didn't accept the highest offer, either - I accepted the offer from the people I most wanted to have the house and that I thought would contribute the most to the neighborhood I was leaving."

When do sellers meet the buyers before the offers are accepted? I recently made an offer, but never met the seller.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 6:16 PM

While there are corrupt people in any industry… it is not permissible for a real estate agent to lie… period. Even though I work for the seller the law is very clear that I am not allowed to lie to buyers, I am not allowed to even ‘hide’ things from buyers even if it would benefit the seller.
First of all it is horrible business. Secondly it is against the law. And further more it is against my companies policies and procedures.

So the real question is how common is corruption.

In my experience lying about having offers is extremely rare…. Yet it is the most common fear buyers have.

On the other hand.. listing agents lying (or severely obscuring the truth) in an effort to protect their direct deals… unfortunately… that’s more common. Not rampant… but you run into it.

Posted by: guest at October 5, 2007 7:05 PM

Answering 6:16's question - I didn't meet the buyers, but they submitted personal statements with their bids. I chose a lower offer from a couple who would be using the house as their primary residence over an offer from a nonresident investor.

Posted by: guest at October 6, 2007 8:55 AM