moving to NYC (or thereabouts)

give us a budget and if you need public schools now

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 12:30 PM

If you like lofts and used to ridiculously priced real estate, Tribeca.

Its REALY close to Manhattan.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 12:36 PM

You didn't say specifically, but it sounds like you want advice on areas with lofts that are near Manhattan but not inside Manhattan. Manhattan lofts are very expensive, obviously, and their property taxes and fees are much higher than Brooklyn or elsewhere.

Manhattan-alternative loft locations are:
Williamsburg
DUMBO
Long Island City
Jersey City
Hoboken

I personally think Long Island City is going to be a good investment. It's only one stop into Queens from Manhattan on the subway. So it's one stop to Midtown Manhattan. The thing LIC has that Dumbo and Williamsburg don't, are some banks and large corporate headquarters are relocating across the river from Midtown to LIC, which means better amenities coming because office workers will need restaurants and services nearby. There are several new loft condo buildings being built in LIC. We ourselves recently bought a house in Brooklyn, but we had to take a cab through LIC the other day and I thought it had a vibe of something happening. You know when you get that gut feeling?

Hoboken and Jersey City are quick rides into lower Manhattan. Brooklyn is quick to lower Manhattan, longer (up to 45 minutes, depending on which train) to Midtown. Base your decision on where in Manhattan your office will be.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 12:39 PM

It's strange how someone can visit once and get harrassed on the subway, but someone can live here for several years as I have, and knock-on-wood, never have it happen.

NYC is the safest large city in America right now, according to crime stats which is public knowledge, and the subways are fine. Just be smart and take a cab when it's late. We usually don't ride the subway after 11pm if for no other reason than it takes too long b/c there are fewer trains.

You probably won't find a loft for $2K-3K though, even in the non-Manhattan areas. To get something spacious and airy, try looking at prewar apartments in Windsor Terrace Brooklyn. You can get a large, nice 1BR for $2K a month there.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 12:54 PM

Here are Windsor Terrace prewar apartments currently on Craigs List:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/fee/447241780.html

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/fee/433051200.html

It's a safe neighborhood too.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 1:00 PM

There are lots of loft-like apartments in Brooklyn. For true converted factory lofts DUMBO and Williamsburg are the two biggies, as mentioned but they're pricey. If you like the open layout and tall ceilings then you can probably find other similar things in brownstone floor-throughs etc.

It'll help if you have other factors that are important. In NYC the factors I think important are:

- closeness to subways (you want a variety if you're consulting because your job location can move alot).
- park proximity (important or not to you?)
- neighborhood mix and general character: you mention being in a neighborhood that's up and coming but that is very different in CA than NYC.
- outdoor space for your apartment
- storage space for your apt (how much crap do you have)
- parking (if you plan on keeping a car)
- subway safety - i'm not sure what harassment means in this case but it was more likely that people who i didn't want to talk to would sit next to me or talk to me more when i first moved here. i think you learn the body language quickly. but i consider the subways very safe. learn by taking them with someone at later hours and see how the crowd is. See single women - it's probably ok.

What neighborhood in the bay area are you in out of curiosity?

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 1:53 PM

2K is the average price of a studio apartment here, so 2-3K is going to be difficult, unless you go to Queens on the Bronx.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 2:42 PM

First off, I agree with guest at 12:54 that it is odd to hear about your friends' harassment on the train in Brooklyn. Be forewarned that the NYC subway is nothing like the BART -- both in terms of the fact that it actually is useful at all hours and goes almost everywhere you might want, and also in terms of the fact that people of all classes and backgrounds are much more open about talking (even loudly) to one another during their trips. I always found BART to be eerily quiet.

I would highly recommend going the rental route for at least a year. It will take a while to get a feel for what type of neighborhood really fits to your family's needs. With a rental, e.g., you can decide that the longer commute from Windsor Terrace to Manhattan isn't worth it and that LIC or the South Bronx is more your speed.

A nice website examining public schools in NY is insideschools.org. It lets you search by neighborhood and even includes the zone maps for each school.

Finally, use caution when reading ads for "lofts" in NY. Friends of mine used to live in a loft halfway between Jack London and West Oakland -- except for the fact that was eye level with passing BART trains it was a wonderful, gigantic open space.

OTOH, many so-called lofts in NY turn out be noting more than slightly larger than shoebox studios with some stainless looking appliances put in the ktichenette to give it a contemporary renovation feel. Other "lofts" feel like they are old industrial warehouses refitted, and thus have surprisingly few windows.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 3:31 PM

There is nothing in NYC like East Oakland. Period.

In Brooklyn, what you might call up and coming would include parts of Red Hook, perhaps some areas right alongside the Gowanus Canal, Sunset park, East New York, parts of Bed-Stuy (especially east of Reid Ave/Malcolm X), parts of Bushwick. However, there are plenty of creepy blocks in Williamsburg, the Navy Yards, and even so-called nicer areas like Prospect and Crown Heights.

However, the issue is that what makes on block creepy to one person (say an unusual number of undeveloped lots leaving the block feeling empty) might feel totally fine to someone else. OTOH other people might not like living on a block with a large number of poorer families still living together overcrowded in rent stabilized apartments.

Among supposed UAC neighborhoods, I like Bed Stuy, but mainly because much (but not all) of the housing stock is high quality and because generally I like the A train.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 3:53 PM

If you like Jack London Square, you will like Dumbo. Start there, then look at Red Hook.

Red Hook doesnt have great transportation, but your not commuting.

It also has FAIRWAY!!!

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 3:54 PM

if commute is a non-issue, i was always intrigued by these:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/452661797.html

chocolate factory lofts. sort of in the middle of nowhere, but near the burgeoning myrtle avenue scene. i used to live on myrtle and vanderbilt and it was a hike to the subway. so this is even more of hike.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 4:50 PM

Brownsville and East New York are very similar to Oakland....crime wise.

So is a large swath of the south Bronx.

Be careful about Bed Stuy. Lots of people on here will tell you that it's amazing (it DOES have great housing stock) but it is still QUITE dangerous and homicides are up in that neighborhood this year and last. There are some nice blocks, but overall the neighborhood lacks services and is still made up of over 50% people living near or below the poverty line.

With the housing market the way it is, it has the potential to keep improving like it's done or slip back a few years...which obviously would not be good...

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 4:51 PM

check out the Graham Avenue area of Williamsburg. It's off the 2nd L stop. easy to get everywhere and safe. great public scools - PS132 I think is the grade school, and forget the middle school in the area but supposed to be very good.

go to yahoo and look at the yahoo group: brooklynbabyhui and see if anyone can help you. it's a parent's website. also, there is a yahoo group: 11211. i don't live in the area, but looked at it extensively. ended moving to williamsburg off the first L. that area is still possible for you too, but more money.

Also, Greenpoint in the PS34 area - that's an excellent school.

i might be screwing up my schools, so go to: www.insideschools.org for reference.

good luck.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 5:08 PM

I would say that Oakland/Emeryville is anologically similar to Brooklyn. Both right accross the water from their world class counterparts, S.F. and NYC. Emeryville = DUMBO, Jack London = Williamsburg, West Oakland = Red Hook (though terribly inconvenient to commute to/from).

I agree with 4:51. With respect to crime, I would throw in Bedford Stuyvesant for good measure. It's kinda like West Oakland - beautiful victorians but stubborn crime (at least when I left in 1997).

Consider Dumbo, Brookyn Heights, Park Slope, Carrol Gardens, Boerum Hill and Fort Greene.

NYC subway is the best public transportation in the Universe!

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 5:25 PM

IMHO, if you are moving from CA and love Manhattan, you should try to rent in Manhattan to begin with. It is an irreplaceable experience to live in Manhattan, and then you can slowly learn which areas of the greater city appeal to you when you think about a buy decision.

Although $2-3k is a bit unrealistic for a 2br in Manhattan, it CAN be done if you are willing to make some concessions (like neighborhood, space) and spend a long time looking. I have a good friend who just signed an extension to her $3k lease on a 2br in the upper west side (a very desirable neighborhood in Manhattan). For better deals, you could try the lower east side or high upper east side.

Good luck!

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 5:26 PM

"I would say that Oakland/Emeryville is anologically similar to Brooklyn. Both right accross the water from their world class counterparts, S.F. and NYC. "

Not quite the same thing.

Brooklyn is a part of New York City...and would be the 4th largest city in the country on its own.

Oakland is not a part of San Francisco. They are quite separate entities and cities.

Brooklyn is much more linked to New York City as a whole and in many ways has become what Manhattan used to be.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 5:54 PM

If you are scared of black people stay in ca, there are a lot of us here...crime exists in nyc and white people sometimes commit them too...if you walk like you do not have street smarts anywhere something can happen...I love how people get on here and give advice about "safe" areas code word "no blacks"

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 6:09 PM

2-3K? From the post I expected 2-3 million. You're going through a lot of work for what will not be your dream apartment. Not to be harsh, but it's just not much money. Almost everything at that price will be a compromise in some department- either the neighborhood or hideous kitchen cabinets or a walk-up- something. I hope for you that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 6:33 PM

6:09,

They live in Oakland. Not exactly known for being lily-white in its demographics.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 6:34 PM

You mentioned that you wanted to rent for a bit and I agree completely that living in Manhattan for some amount of time is invalueable and will make you feel like part of the city. Can you descibe what you are looking for in a neighborhood? Go for the Manhattan studio for a year. You'll be cramped but it'll be worth it!

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 6:44 PM

I agree with the comment that you should plan for a year long rental (in a nbd you are excited about even if it is too pricey for a future buy) and consider this project that is in the works:

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/10/inside_third_bo_6.php

The link above is to the week 8 posting on Brownstoner for Third & Bond and shows the 2-bedroom floor through. It definitely isn't a loft but has a really nice floor plan. Plus, this part of Carroll Gardens is the edge of Gowanus -- UAC. (Carroll Gardens is your basic Huxtable-looking nbd, Gowanus is mostly old industrial buildings.) Whole Foods is going in down the street, too.

If you aren't already, start thinking in terms of buying in dollars per square foot. So, in Manhattan you often have to pay upwards of $1,000/SF (especially for loft space). In Brownstone Brooklyn (Huxtable land), it'll be more like $750-850/SF. Similar for Williamsburg and LIC, though maybe more like $700-800/SF. And in a place like Bed-Stuy or Bushwick, I'd guess $500-600/SF.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 6:53 PM

as a single young woman who has lived all over the bay area and now lives in nyc, i want you to know that i take the subways by myself almost all hours of the day. after about 2am, i typically don't but it is more because a) the trains run less frequently, b) catching a cab is fairly easy, and c) the walk home from the subway station is a teensy bit creepy -- not the ride itself.

from most of the places in brooklyn that i'm guessing you'd like (based on your post/comments), you should be able to get to some part of manhattan within a 15-20 min subway ride. but which part of manhattan--that's a little trickier.

i'd shoot for living on a train line that goes to union square because that is usually a pretty good hub (L, N, R, Q, 4, 5, 6, W, R). but that's just me.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 6:58 PM

"...it's definitely off-topic, as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention incredibly rude."

Note: You may not like Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 6:59 PM

Are there any safe areas in this day and age? I think not. THe question remains what is the degree of danger in a particular neighborhood?

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 9:16 PM

Of course- everyone is speaking with the assumption that all know that there are degrees.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 9:43 PM

Why doesn't someone rank all the neighborhoods on a scale of 1-10 for safety. That should get a couple hundred posters.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 9:46 PM

I believe you are talking about 2-3k for a rental which should not be a problem in a lot of decent areas. I'm not sure what planet some of the people on this thread live on. If you are only renting for a year it won't be the ideal place, maybe smaller than you'd like, etc. but please, there are definitely apartments out there. Get the NY Times on Sunday,check Craigslist, check brokers websites, check the areas mentioned above for prices. You may be in a one or 1 1/2 (office space?)bedroom but it will be fine for a short time. Get a feel for areas you like and take it from there. I personally love Clinton Hill but that's my opinion. You'll form your own.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 11:00 PM

this blacklightblue chick sounds like a real ball of fun.

and by ball of fun, i mean...you might want to consider becoming the president of the park slope food co-op.

Posted by: guest at October 18, 2007 11:42 PM

I can't believe this is a real post. And all these mostly earnest answers? You people are letting me down.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 12:15 AM

you sound like a moron blacklightblue, who these folks should not waste their time helping.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 7:16 AM

Sexy name, though.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 9:08 AM

Oh c'mon 7:16-

don't you remember the first time that you got sucked into this bile?

Or the most recent?

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 9:11 AM

So blacklightblueintheface- whatcha gonna do?

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 9:14 AM

9:11 - fair point!

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 9:48 AM

"Not quite the same thing."

I said anologically similar, not 'the same thing'. And they are. Oakland is to the Bay Area what Brooklyn is to New York City. Just like Fillmore is to SF what Harlem is to Manhattan. They attract a large percentage of African Americans and other 'minority' groups because that's where they find their culture (affordability aside). And now those areas are being gentrified. Of course, NYC is much more condensed.

If you want to nitpick about differences between Brooklyn and Oakland, we can start with their names.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 10:14 AM

schools are for real. range from great to 100% not-acceptable for even one year. private costs 25-30k. if you want public, bed-stuy is out. try searching on corcoran.com in your price range in Park Slope, Cobble Hill and Brooklyn Heights. Make sure they are zoned for PS 321, 29 or 8 respectively. For kicks you can try Chelsea (11), Tribeca (150) and Upper East Side too (6), but your price point is too low.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 10:46 AM

Actually you've never been to Oakland if you think it's similar to Brooklyn.

Could not be much different.

Your analogy is based on the fact that both places have a large concentration of African Americans. That's about where the analogy ends.

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 11:43 AM

Boring boring boring boring...

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 2:32 PM

think it's the yahoo group
parents11211

Posted by: guest at October 19, 2007 3:27 PM

do you know the muffin man?
no no just kidding NY subway's are pretty safe

Posted by: guest at December 26, 2007 11:45 PM