Forum
« LG vs Samsung refridgerator smackdown Rental legal question »
October 8, 2007
Basic brownstone ownership questions
My husband and I are seriously considering buying a brownstone, which would have 2 rentals plus our unit. We really love the idea of living this way and financially it makes a lot of sense for us. But we are also intimidated at the thought of the unknowns related to buying a 100+ year old home.
So I have a few basic questions:
1. How much should we budget for ongoing maintenance of the place? We realize that we should also have a decent amount of cash on hand for big problems (new roof needed, new boiler needed, etc.) But barring the big ticket items, how much does it usually cost for the basic monthly general maintenance of the place?
2. Do some brownstone owners retain superintendants or property managers to help with the general maintenance (trash, common areas, etc.), and if so, how much does that typically cost per month (very approxmiately)?
- If we are not particularly handy (but very willing to learn), should we not be getting involved in this type of living situation?
Any other general tips? As I mentioned, we are intimidated b/c we've never lived in such an old home- even as a renter. We just "don't know what we don't know" and are wondering if there are things we are overlooking b/c financially and emotionally the place appeals to us so much.
Thank you very much for your advice!
Comments
You sound like you've enough spare money to figure out any pitfalls as you go.
Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 12:28 AM
SInce you've never lived in an old house before, I say educate yourself as much as possible. There are a lot of old house books out there, and old house websites offering help, advice and information. Subscribe to Old House Journal, and visit as many brownstones as you can in your search for the one you want. In fact, go to open houses that you know you don't want. The more houses you see, in all kinds of conditions, and all kinds of configurations, the more you will get comfortable with the basics of brownstone living, and the more you will learn about the houses themselves.
When you finally get one, make sure the rental units are the best you can make them, for the amount of rent you are charging. Some people on this site think that tenants are all undeserving scum who should be happy with whatever you throw them, but I believe that the best tenants, the ones who treat your house as their own, are the ones for whom you have prepared a good apartment. Even more important than the paint job, or the appliances, put your money into the things that will have you up in the middle of the night - the electricity, the plumbing and the HVAC systems, including the windows. Eveything else is gravy, easily fixed or replaced, or repainted.
#2. In my house, that person is called me. I guess if you can afford it, get someone else, but most people need every penny for other things. I have no problem putting out my garbage, or even shovelling snow. It never hurts to know how to do things, Buy a home repair general handbook from Home Depot or Lowe's and at least get familiar with common problems and solutions. That way if you hire someone, they can communicate with you and also you won't get ripped off as easily.
Lastly, how much all of this costs differs from situation to situation, house to house. I am nowhere near wealthy, and most of my homeowner friends aren't either. We hire only when absolutely necessary, and DIY it most of the time. I know I wish I had a fund or a budget for those repairs, but I just do what I can when I can. If you can afford to save big bucks for those bad situations, by all means, do so.
Hope that helped, if only a little, and is encouraging.
Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 12:58 AM
To neither overemphasize or underemphasize the issues - you become responsible for the environment that your tenants are living in. Mostly it is no issue, but there will occasionally be a time when something breaks in the middle of the night and you are responsible. And when it snows you do have to arrange for the snow to be shoveled. The rent you receive is not the same as a dividend check, it has some strings attached. Most people are busy with jobs, kids, whatever and having tenants is another set of tasks you have to add to that schedule whether you take care of it yourself or not. If you are not comfortable with the responsibility or just cannot fit another thing into your day, or travel 9 months out out the year it is not for you. If you are up for it, it may be very rewarding. I had tenants who used to bake pies for us from time to time.
Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 10:20 AM
As a landlord for about 20 years, I fully endorse 12:8's comments (including the "think...scum"!). Treat tenants well and they will probably treat you well. Be careful and diligent about choosing tenants but don't be paranoid or listen to extremists.
Unexpected costs can be daunting. Calling a plumber on an emergency may mean shelling our $500 for 20 mins work and your feeling like you've been had. Don't think that. It happens. Try and have a handyman available on call for non-emergencies. Try and anticipate some things like water heaters (last 10-12 years) etc. Cultivate neighbors in case you're out of town over a weekend and tenants need someone to call or shovel snow.
Posted by: cmu at October 9, 2007 10:39 AM
Yes, being a landlord does entail additional responsibilities, but you might want to take a step back when people start telling you to take home repair classes or hire superintendents. This is not rocket science. You'll be living in a house that has what, four flours, and you'll have two and rent the other two? You live in a house now, right? How complicated can it be? If anything major happens like the heat goes out in January, you'll know right away and you would need to deal with it anyway. Sure, there are normal maintenance issues, maybe slightly more than a brand new house, but not that much.
Maybe their light fixture will break, or some rain gets in and warps the wall board a bit, but its not like this happens every day at midnight. I have had tenants in a garden apt. for the past 6 years, with an occasional backed up drain, a lock they thought was busted but just stuck, and other some minor stuff. Tons of people live in these houses and deal with tenants everyday. Getting good tenants is the most important thing. Go through a broker - it will make your life much easier, and will also give you someone in the neighborhood who knows your situation and may be able to recommend handymen etc...
Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 10:48 AM
Lots of good advice here. I can't imagine you need a super for two apts--in your lease (even if it's month-to-month) specify that the tenants are responsible for taking out their trash and that all recycling rules are followed.
My experience has also been that having a nicer apt. will get you nicer tenants. I've also never used a broker because doing your own do diligence isn't hard and I'd rather get one month's rent and two months' security from a tenant. Asking that on top of a broker fee can be prohibitive. Plus I really want to get to know prospective tenants.
As for maintenance, there's no way to really plan for it, other than gas and electrical, and that's easy. As you seem to understand, you need to have cash (or at least an emergency credit card) to pay for the boiler that breaks down or the water heater that dies unexpectedly, among other things.
Definitely cultivate relationships with an electrician, a plumber and a handyman so that they'll come help with regular stuff as well as in emergency situations. Also learn how to do some really basic tasks, like making sure your boiler has water and how to shut off your water main and your electricity in case of an emergency. Your tradespeople should be happy to show you this kind of stuff. Good luck and go for it!
Posted by: tinarina at October 9, 2007 12:07 PM
One other comment--when you get tenants, be sure to stress to them that they should call you ASAP if they notice:
a light or electrical item that keeps shorting out
A sink or toilet that is not draining properly or very slowly
the smell of gas.
We had super-nice tenants who "didn't want to bother us" when their toilet wasn't flushing, so they put drain cleaner in it (bad move). They still didn't let us know about the problem. A day later we had a highly unpleasant sewer backup in our basement (fixed with a $250 visit from Roto-Rooter as my plumber was unavailable on super-short notice). Had they let us know from the get-go, we could have had the line snaked and likely avoided the gross flooding in the basement.
Yes, stuff comes up, but don't be alarmed--it's manageable.
Posted by: tinarina at October 9, 2007 12:47 PM
Don't hire a super. You can figure this stuff out yourselves and you'll never feel in control if you are always relying on others to do the maintenance. That said, a few pointers:
1. Try to find a reliable plumber and electrician. Ideally, these will be long term relationships and they will come to know your home's systems making future repairs less difficult -- and expensive -- to solve.
2. A skilled carpenter/handyperson is also a great connection to have. As is a good painter.
3. Where to find these trades people? Start by asking your neighbors.
4. In addition to Tinarina's helpful comments about tenants, I also think it's a good idea to show them where the water switch-off valve is located. In the unlikely event that a pipe bursts, turning off the water supply to the house will significantly reduce the overall damage.
5. Don't be intimidated by old houses. Just because brownstones were built 100+ years ago, doesn't mean they are disasters waiting to happen. Plenty of new construction is rife with structural problems.
6. In so far as your budget allows, spend as much as you can on overhauling the mechanicals of your new home (plumbing, wiring) and up-grading structural elements (roof, joist replacement/reinforcement, cellar work including installation of a sump pump, re-skimming plaster walls, new windows etc). Leave the more cosmetic/finish work until later.
7. Don't panic. At the end of the day, everything can be fixed.
Posted by: guest at October 9, 2007 1:04 PM
All good comments but I would definitely recommend NOT going through a broker to rent the apartments. We've been renting 2 apartments for about 15 years and we only used a broker once and wouldn't again. The tenant paid his rent but we just didn't like him - huge Howard Stern fan.
Interviewing, meeting and getting a feel for prospective tenants is essential. The broker will find you someone that has good credit and has enough for a security deposit but that's it. We rent our apartments below market and thus have a bit of choice in our tenants. They will be living in your building, you should make sure you like them well enough to be encoutering them in the hall.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at October 9, 2007 1:14 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.