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September 29, 2007
How to find out what was previously paid on a place?
When we bought our condo in the Chicago market, our real estate agent was able to find out what it was bought for by the previous owners. Does anyone know how/where to look that up for the Brooklyn market? We are interested in finding out the price for a place in the South Slope that we are considering putting an offer on.
Comments
www.propertyshark.com, and possibly www.zillow.com. But why is it relevant? Housing prices are dictated by the current market, so it really doesn't matter what the previous owner paid.
Posted by: guest at September 29, 2007 8:09 PM
When I was looking at my house, my agent had that information on the listuing. If you are working with an agent, they should be able to get that information for you.
Posted by: bheightsejp at September 29, 2007 8:09 PM
This really is one of my peeves, when people, apparently communists, believe sellers should never be able to sell their place at full market value if they purchased it for less than that. It's just dumb. The value of the place is whatever somebody will pay for it. Period.
Posted by: guest at September 29, 2007 11:06 PM
While it is true that the value of a house is what someone is willing to pay for it resulting in bidding wars on from time to time, I disagree with your first argument. I think most sellers expect potential buyers to offer less than the asking price and it is up to them to take a lower offer or not. Many homes go through price reductions proving that full market value is a fluid concept. Also, in cases where the house was renovated extensively, knowing what was paid for the home before the renovation and the subsequent results of that renovation, can support or contradict the asking price. Brownstoner often posts listings that state the price when the seller bought it and an evaluation of the quality of the work along with the current price. Communists? Um, communists were not allowed to own property let alone offer less than full market value. Maybe "smart shoppers" is a better term.
Posted by: bheightsejp at September 29, 2007 11:23 PM
It might not matter to you what the previous owner paid, but I personally like to avoid recent flips that are marking up a property like bandits. There was a house I was about to go see, until I learned from Property Shark that it had traded only 7 months ago for a whopping 85% (exact number) less than it was listed for. I assume there were no renovations done, as the listing explicitly stated "needs TLC". Needless to say, I canceled that appointment in a heartbeat, simply because I have no interest in being a sucker. So to me that information, when and if available, is extremely helpful.
Posted by: guest at September 29, 2007 11:31 PM
www.propertyshark.com
If the price is not shown, I think it means it was a private transfer, or something like that. Not quite sure.
Posted by: guest at September 29, 2007 11:43 PM
You could also check out acris, it will tell you all about the prior mortgages on the propery and also the deeds. However it doesnt work too well for co-ops:
http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/jump/acris.shtml
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 1:21 AM
OP here. We tried all of your suggestions including Tulia. None worked to find the sale price. Any other suggestions? Thank you!
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 1:59 AM
"This really is one of my peeves, when people, apparently communists, believe sellers should never be able to sell their place at full market value if they purchased it for less than that."
please point out where anyone said anything remotely like this.
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 11:34 AM
I was commenting on how over and over again on Brownstoner, we see people looking up what a seller paid for a house on Property Shark, then bashing the seller if they are trying to get full market value.
Maybe some of you have not been reading Brownstoner to witness that, but it happens all the time. Not just on this thread. Also, the term that's often used, whether we all bother to go into a history lesson over it or not, is "communist" when these discussions arise. I wouldn't ever read it (or say it) in a literal sense.
Some sellers are flippers. But what if they're not? What if they happened to get a good deal when they purchased a place? AGAIN, if they can sell the house for a certain amount, then that's what it's worth. It only takes one buyer to accomplish that. I'm hardly saying sellers should not negotiate or use these tools for negotiation. Please point out to me now, where I said that.
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 12:42 PM
"Some sellers are flippers. But what if they're not?"
Right, so I think it's fine to use any available public records to guess/gauge whether a property is a flip or not. There's nothing wrong with selling or even buying a flip per se, but it's just another bit of information that is useful to a buyer in the negotiation process.
And that "full market value" you mention is determined by the final selling price, not by the listing prices that Brownstoner commenters like to discuss. Listing prices are often times very different from the final selling price.
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 12:57 PM
Well Comrade, buying a home is the biggest investment a person will generally make in their lifetime, so research, bargaining, and yes, complaining or criticizing about an asking price will never cease. Depsite this, the seller has the ultimate power to accept an offer or not.
Posted by: bheightsejp at September 30, 2007 1:21 PM
Right--and THAT determines the market price. Not the listing price.
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 1:29 PM
OP here. I really think it's well within my rights as a fully informed potential buyer to know what the seller paid for the place. It was useful info for our last purchase and I imagine it would be useful info for any future real estate purchase. But of course everyone knows that a property is still going to ultimately sell for what the seller agrees to sell it for. Period.
Nonetheless, do any of you have other suggestions on where I can find this info? I've checked Property Shark, Trulia, and acris and couldn't find the previous sale price. Any other suggestions?
(I'm going to ask my RE agent as well to find out this info once we get more serious about this.)
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 2:30 PM
Have to agree with the first poster: how does this really matter? If you're trying to avoid flips, it's more important to find out when the property last changed hands than the sales prices.
OP, if I can give you an example, you can help me understand how the sales information would help you. You're looking to buy a house that's listed at, say, $1,000,000. You find out that the current owners paid $400,000 back in 1998. What do you now do with this information that helps you? This isn't asked sarcastically, I truly want to know.
Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at September 30, 2007 5:46 PM
OP here - if their profit margin is tight, we assume they will have less desire to negotiate on price. If their profit margin is wide, there is more room. We assume that it is a buyers market right now which means that we are hoping to get a discount off the asking price. We are also considering lowballing an initial offer. To do all of these things, it's very helpful to know what they bought the place for. Believe me- it's directly helped us in our previous purchase. And it has been a factor in how many people I know have priced their homes that they are selling. I know that (obviously) the market dictates the majority of what a price is, but there are other variables as well such as how motivated the seller is to move the property and also how thin or wide their potential profit margin is.
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 5:51 PM
you assume it is a buyer's market right now? This is new york, you are not in chicago anymore.
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 7:28 PM
OP here- is there anyone out there with actual useful information on how to find out the price? I'm not sure why the rest of you are so troubled with my wanting to know this information, but really - why do you care so much? It's a bit weird.
(And fyi- we only lived in Chicago for 2 years when my husband was in grad school. We've lived in NYC since 1996 except for those 2 years. We are very familiar with the real estate market here.)
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 9:11 PM
I've noticed that on occasion, propertyshark won't show the previous price. This seems to happen when the house was sold more than 10 years ago. Do you find the house, but with no sales price?
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 9:50 PM
OP
I know a sure fire way how you can find out how much the seller paid for it.
Why don't you just ask the seller!!
A South Slope Seller.
Posted by: guest at October 1, 2007 12:12 AM
You will not ALWAYS be able to find out how much a seller paid for the property. That information is not always available, due to private sale, transfer, and who knows what else. In that event, use comparables in the market and your own budget in crafting an offer. It's not your inalienable right to know what the seller paid.
Posted by: guest at October 1, 2007 12:30 AM
OP I think 22 posts and no answer pretty much answers your question have a good day
Posted by: guest at October 1, 2007 7:34 AM
Have you tried this?
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/property/property_val_sales.shtml
Posted by: Freckles at October 1, 2007 10:08 AM
OP here - thanks for the recent useful posts. Didn't realize this would be such a contraversial topic- sheesh!! We are absolutely using comps of course- this was just one more piece of data that we were hoping to know. But I guess it might not be known (although I am going to ask our RE agent if they can find out).
9:50- yes we do see the listing, just no price. But it looks like the house was bought by the original owner in 2003. But whatever- I'll just work with the RE agent and we'll go from there!
Posted by: guest at October 1, 2007 11:26 AM
I'm a Brooklyn MLS agent with access to REALIST (A Very Good public records program)
Anyone may simply email me or call me and I'd be happy to look it up.
Sales prices are public records. Just sometimes the record providers do not have ALL the data.
Howard Witz
howard@communityhomesales.com
Posted by: howrealnyc at October 1, 2007 1:40 PM
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