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September 28, 2007
do i have to file plans with the city?
I am renovating my kitchen in a co-op building and the architect said I might have to file plans with the city and get a permit. I don't know how to find out if I'm required to do this, or what the rules are. I do want to move the sink and gas stove down a few feet from their present locations. Will this require a permit? He also said all the things involved (something about an asbestos abatement? plans showing the building/apt is handicap accessible? and other things I can't remember) will run around 5 grand! Anyone out there live in a co-op and been through this? Thanks.
Comments
If you are only removing and replacing things (in the exact same spot) you do not need to file. If you are moving the sink or moving the oven or any other appliance, you need to file with the city.
So yes, you need to file. The reason is for life safety and handicap accessibility. You are allowed to renovate and put things back exactly where they are (essentially you are not increase the degree of non-compliance to code) but as soon as you move something, you need to comply with new codes.
Posted by: guest at September 28, 2007 6:43 PM
Wow, that's really wild.
Does this include renovations of brownstones? Do you need to file with the city if you move things around in a brownstone?
Posted by: guest at September 28, 2007 8:02 PM
The rules are different between multiple dwellings (apartments) and other dwellings (many brownstones).
The very first thing you want to do in a co-op renovation is get a copy of the Alterations Agreement. It may have rules more stringent than Building Code.
Posted by: an architect in Brooklyn at September 28, 2007 11:38 PM
Why is that wild? the codes in old buildings no loner apply. The city is basically saying that you are allowed to renovate and keep your place in "non-compliance" as long as you keep the same layout. If you change it, you need to upgrade to the new codes.
Nothing wild about that. Seems perfectly reasonable. Times change.
Posted by: guest at September 29, 2007 7:55 AM
Thanks for your responses. I am pretty freaked out by this because all I am doing is moving the stove, sink, and refrigerator over a few feet each, all along the same ten feet of wall space. So, in order to do this I'm going to have to show the city that my building is handicap accessible and there is no asbestos in it, among other things having nothing to do with the project. The architect told me all this could cost as much as $8,000. I don't have that kind of money. This does seem crazy to me.
Posted by: starkle at September 29, 2007 8:52 PM
An expediter costs about $1500. Asbestos inspection about $500. Another $500 in fees, etc. A cheap architect should be able to do this for you (if you already know what the plan is) for maybe $2,000.
Your IKEA kitchen will cost you $2,500. Your appliances will cost you $3,000. Some tile, and paint. A GC will do the install for about $10,000.
That's not too bad. Why the worry?
Posted by: guest at September 29, 2007 9:18 PM
Well, the worry is that I'm going to have to figure out where I'm going to come up with a few thousand more dollars. I'm not a wealthy person and I support myself. I have to worry about every penny. And this is now an additional expense of several thousand dollars that I had not counted on. So, its actually a very big deal for me. Not everyone can suddenly find out they will owe a few thousand dollars more than anticipated and think its nothing to worry over. Count your blessings, my friend. But, I do appreciate your optimism that it won't be as much as 5 to 8 thousand as the architect I consulted said it would, not including his fees. I hope you are right.
Posted by: starkle at September 30, 2007 9:42 AM
The unfortunate thing (from a cost point of view) is that you are in a co-op building. Understandably they are not going to let you do any work without a permit..or not. The advice above about obtaining the alteration agreement is spot on. You can call Carlos Medina for a cheap ACP-5 (Asbestos Inspection) 917 693-7272 if you need it. Good luck!
Posted by: Espresso at September 30, 2007 9:58 AM
Thanks, Espresso. I already have the alteration agreement for the building. It actually says nothing specific about filing with the city. There is simply one brief clause stating that it is my responsibility to find out whether or not I have to file with the city and to do so if it is required. The co-op's only rule is that you submit plans to the management company for their review. This is just turning into such a bigger headache than I anticipated. I thought I could just hire an architect to draw up some basic plans, hire a contractor and get this thing done. Now all of a sudden I'm having to find somene to do an asbestos inspection? It would be one thing if I had all the time in the world to do this, but I already have a full time job!
Posted by: starkle at September 30, 2007 12:39 PM
If your architect said "might" you MIGHT want to consider getting rid of them. They should know the answer to this question so you don't have to come to this forum.
Posted by: guest at September 30, 2007 11:16 PM
I agree. You should think seriously at this point about the quality of your architect. Experience has taught me that one flag like this, being a gap in your architect's knowledge, is indicative of the experience that is in store for you. You should not have to ask this question.
Posted by: guest at October 2, 2007 9:24 AM
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