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August 16, 2007
Getting rid of a tenant
My boyfriend and I just closed on a building. It is a four story, four unit building which is fully occupied by tenants who have all been living there for a few years. Our plan is to combine the basement and first floor apartment, creating a duplex for us to live in. The lease issued to the two tenants who currently occupy the first floor unit expired Aug. 1st and was not renewed by the previous landlord (since he knew we wanted the unit for ourselves). We would like to give them two months notice to move out so that we can move in. My question is, what is the best way to go about giving them notice? Do we write them a letter? Speak to them in person? Do we do both? We would like to handle things in a fair and amicable manner. Any words of advice appreciated.
Comments
Speak to him, but put it in writing, registered receipt, so you can prove you mailed him a copy of the termination notice (keep a copy of what you send too).
Posted by: guest at August 16, 2007 3:54 PM
Agree with above, but go out and buy yourself a NY Landlords book. There is much you need to learn.
Posted by: guest at August 16, 2007 4:44 PM
Yes, put it all in writing and speak to them about your plans. You will quickly see if you have a problem on your hands or not. This story is something I hear often and it sometimes comes with anger from a tenant. Do your best to be kind to yor tenant and it may go better than you think. If you end up with an angry tenant on your hands, distant yourself and file for eviction. Try to keep a cool head about it.
Posted by: Rick at August 16, 2007 6:06 PM
You will need to evict them.
Follow the above advice and six months will pass and then you will hire a lawyer.
Start the eviction process NOW.
Posted by: guest at August 16, 2007 6:15 PM
Best to ignore idiots like 6:15.
It's a business relationship. Most people are accomodating if you treat them right. Talk to them to get a feeling for where they are at. Give them 3 months, not 2. If you feel they are going to dig in their heels, *then* you raise the ante.
Posted by: guest at August 16, 2007 6:43 PM
I am the 6:15 idiot.
I own five brownstones and have twenty tenants.
This is what will happen if you "give" them two or three or four months or whatever.
They will agree.
Two months will pass.
Their new apartment will fall through.
They will ask for another month or two. Or three.
You get the picture.
Don't evict them and regret it.
Posted by: guest at August 16, 2007 6:53 PM
One, ignore the idiots. There's plenty of horror stories and there's even more examples of things running smoothly.
Two, there's a formal letter that is used to notify folks that you're not renewing their lease. use that and hand it to them personally. However, the letter is incredibly impersonal and legal. When I used it I explained that this was a standard practice and to please forgive the harsh wording.
Three, giving them two months notice formally - and perhaps more if tenants have been there a long time - is a nice thing to do. Legally you have to give 30 days to the end of the following month. i.e. if you give the notice to them Sept 2nd, they have til the end of the month that 30 days gives them - Oct 31 in other words. But if you give it to them on August 31, they'd be required to leave no later than September 30.
Good luck and enjoy your new home!
Posted by: Johnny at August 16, 2007 7:20 PM
Not sure what the purpose of name calling is. You may disagree with another poster. No need to be childish about it.
The above poster's advice is not very good. If you wish to actually utilize the apartment, start the eviction process.
Please refrain from name calling.
Posted by: guest at August 16, 2007 7:51 PM
I think that it is possible to get someone to move out in your time frame, but improbable especially if the tenants have been there a long time and/or have families. I heard all the horror stories when I bought my place and hoped that my inherited tenant with entourage of roommates, guests, illegal subtenants, etc. would move at the end of her lease. I gave the tenant 5 months notice that I would not renew the lease, talked to her continuously (i.e. trying to be humane, amicable, above board human being that the nuns and my parents would be proud of) and to my disgust and horror, she gave me a rash of cockamamie stories of her real estate deal gone bad the week before the end of the lease. I immediately went the eviction route and the process scared her (and company) into moving out 6 weeks after the start of the process. I had to sue to get my money and got it. It wasn't fun but tenant landlord court works.
Unfortunately, this is fairly typical from what I have heard from others and I have to say that the blunt advice of 6:15 has the ring of truth. You can talk to the people and try to assess where they are at since not everyone will go the "evict me" route but if they are long time tenants, its like what do you want to do with the bandaid. Rip it off slow or rip it off fast. It's probably going to hurt a little no matter what you do. Evicting is the rip it off fast approach. A friend of mine used to approach tenants first with an offer of moving money. He said to them that the law was on his side, the courts would evict the tenant but that they had a choice of where he spent his money -- on legal fees or moving money for them. He had some success with that route.
Consult with a tenant landlord lawyer. There is a process which can take up to 6 months if you evict. Marc Aronson on Smith Street is an experienced tenant landlord lawyer who will consult with you. He will also charge a flat fee of 1500 dollars for all of the legal work involved with an eviction, including coming to court with you.
You can do everything on your own, but as new buyers you need some advice.
Hopefully, everything will go well, but be fully prepared for if it doesn't. You need to understand the law and how it works.
Good luck with your new place.
Posted by: donatella at August 16, 2007 11:08 PM
Evict them? On what grounds? If they're month-to-month tenants, you need to give them 30 days notice, as above poster detailed. You can't just go into court and evict tenants without going through that step first.
Plus, I don't quite understand the assumption--very prevalent on Brownstoner--that all tenants are devious people trying to take advantage. I'll admit, there are some tenants who are like that, as donatella's post indicates. But, as donatella's post also indicates, those tenants had other issues that should've served as a clue to how they were going to behave.
Go talk to your tenants. Give them the appropriate notice in writing. Warn them that if they don't comply you will evict them.
Posted by: guest at August 17, 2007 9:55 AM
oh wow - this could be a major pain. I agree - start the eviction process now. It takes months. You can be talking to them calmly at the same time.
Posted by: Fort Greene at August 17, 2007 10:03 AM
ooh i like Donatella's friend's method of offering the money otherwise spent on eviction to the tenant to move out. it nicely nips several potential problems in the bud. still, how often do tenants pull this kind of thing? mr 6:15 has 22 tenants, he is professional landlord and wisely shouldn't suffer fools gladly. but when you're an owner-occupier and have one tenant to deal with, i think a little more leeway is called for.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at August 17, 2007 10:31 AM
I am quite amazed at the number of people who purchase homes that are occupied by tenants. Don't their lawyers advise those who dont know better about the risks and problems that they might incur?I pray that your tenants are cooperative.Whatever you do, keep good records pertaining to notifications made to your tenants in regards to them having to move.Certified/registered letters is a must in addition to having a conversation with them. If you have to speak to them by phone, use your cell this way you have a detailed record of phone calls made.Good luck!
Posted by: guest at August 17, 2007 11:55 AM
There are always people who could be easily classified as landlords from hell on this site. If you assume people will screw you, you will be screwed (as 6:15 obviously has been, judging from his attitude). Don't listen to people who have issues with normal human interaction.
In twenty years as landlord, I have never had any of these problems. If I have such, I will chalk it up to one bad apple (or two) but I will not assume it the norm.
Amazed at purchasing a home with tenants? What's wrong with that? Particulary if you need the income and the tenants are ok (which, contrary to the l-f-h gang, is true for the vast majority.)
We bought a house with a tenant, best thing we did as our renovation took (suprise) longer than planned and having the on=going rent helped. They also fed our cats when we were out of town and we walked their dog. Surprise!...we actually talked to them and got to know them as people, not rent-paying machines.
Posted by: guest at August 17, 2007 2:22 PM
2:22 - you have great tenants, you are extremely lucky, but have you ever had tenants you had to ask to leave? That is the situation here. If you've never had to do it, you would be shocked at how pleasant-enough tenants can turn to nightmares facing this situation.
I had an inherited tenant that I did not renew the lease to and it was a horrible experience which I didn't enjoy, but was necessary.
Discuss with the tenant a notice you give to them in person, followup with certified mail copy. Set time limits for the tenants to respond. DO NOT let these limits linger, agree on a time to be out and keep with it.
Keep Marc Aronson's contact information as the next step if you can't work things out. His office can also issue lease nonrenewal notices,it is not "more" legal, but official lawyer letterhead indicates you are serious to some people and might be the push if need be.
Posted by: guest at August 17, 2007 3:02 PM
There are reasons a person might buy a house with tenants and you don't have to be a landlord from hell to want an apartment to live in for yourself or to renovate. Perfectly lovely people who try to be human beings and get the above done have trouble getting the tenants to vacate the apartments. That is what the eviction process is about.
This is the process. You give 30 day written notice (or more) saying that you are not renewing the lease and the person may vacate. You do it by certified mail, in person and on phone. If the person is not out of the apartment at the end of the lease (or de facto month to month lease at the end of the 30 days), then you do not take money from tenant, file a holdover petition with the courts for which you can get a court date with the tenant within 30 days. You either arbitrate or go to trial and the judge listens to tenant and can give them up to 6 months to move out. The reason is simply because they do not have a lease. The tenant must abide by the judge's decision, pay you and leave at the end of the period. Otherwise a US Marshall physically evicts them.
It is always better to get the person to move on their own, i.e. donatella's friend's solution. If you can correctly scope out the true situation and convince the person to move within a certain framework, wonderful. But you must understand the eviction process.
Posted by: guest at August 17, 2007 3:26 PM
We too need to do the same thing with our tenants to renovate the apartment. we aren't planning on doing it til the spring though...is it ok to give them 5/6 months notice...i feel like i've heard that you shouldn't give too much somewhere on this forum? it would seem like the nice thing to do...they are somewhat good tenants, not the best.
Posted by: guest at August 17, 2007 4:54 PM
The landord-from-hell comment was not just because one wants to live in a tenanted apt that you own, that's perfectly reasonable. It's for those on this list who clearly begin by assuming the worst, tell posters how bad it will (not can) be, advice them to not be kind to tenants, and, generally, act in a, shall I say, less than kind manner.
It's attitude I'm talking about. "get rid of tenants" "don't let them jerk you around" "start eviction proceedings". Well, all I can say is that I'm happy not to be part of that ethos, and I think it shows in my experience. If that's smug so be it.
I can also say, in the experience of several of my friends who rent, none of their landlords act like this. So this site must attract a special subset of paranoid landlords.
Posted by: guest at August 17, 2007 6:04 PM
I would talk to them and generously offer an extra month's time to move out (2 mos). However, I would insist in exchange, that if they take longer than that, they will pay liquidated damages, etc., that will discourage them from holding over.
If they dont agree, then they will likely be a problem so you can hire a lawyer now so (s)he can make sure all of the paperwork is done correctly from the beginning.
Posted by: slick at August 17, 2007 11:39 PM
Trust me when I tell you. I'm going through really tough times with a tenant in Ft Myers, Fl. I feel completely helpless. It feels like someone has gone in my house and robbed me. These people have not paid for three months. I don't live in the same part of the state. So its difficult to do evictions. I would love for laws to protect the landlord and not so much the tenant. No one imagines how angry I feel towards them. The law is frustrating, I mean their in my freekin house for crying outloud. The nerve. They owe me more than $6000.00 along with accumulated late fees. I have a great attorney and i will
make sure the f----ng pay me. I hope all landlords out there learn from this. Do research on these strange people moving into YOUR home.
Posted by: guest at May 28, 2008 8:43 PM
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