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June 1, 2007
What is a brownstone dump worth
what is a 20x100 lot containing a salvageable brownstone, really worth (functional roof and walls and floors and some detail)?
Another way of looking at this question: in bed stuy, where restored brownstones appear to be going for around $1m, if restoration of said dump costs 200 per sq ft, and a year of pain, how does the math ever work out? (200 per sq ft, 3500 sq ft = 700k plus carrying costs = in debt).
Comments
It's worth it if you're not seeing anything out there in better shape, within your budget. It's worth it if you want to make the house YOUR OWN and not the previous owner's dream home. We bought a $700+k brownstone in Bed Stuy that needed tons of work. We put alot of sweat equity into it. It was a year of stress filled, nightmarish restorations that put us in the poor house temporarily. Now that it's finished and the tenants are in place paying our mortgage, I can sit back and ask myself if it was worth it. The verdict is still out, BUT that was the best deal for us at the time and once we made the decision to buy a house, we weren't going to spend a year looking. Would I ever do it again? Hell yeah!!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:27 PM
I forgot to mention that we spent about $70 per sq ft. That's where the sweat equity came in.
Posted by: ps at June 1, 2007 4:29 PM
$70 per square foot? wow .. so did you save most of the money by being your own almost fulltime on-site GC, or you subbed for basic laboring, that would otherwise eat up a lot of cash?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 4:48 PM
OP, I think you have the wrong attitude.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 5:03 PM
OP, I think you have the wrong attitude.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 5:03 PM
"I think you have the wrong attitude."
What, because I'm not displaying the attitude that taking a dump and renovating it should be a charity operation for the block? an expensive hobby? a labor of love?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 5:08 PM
I was both GC and basic labor. I'm a freelancer, so it meant booking fewer jobs, but not quitting work altogether. We had contractors and if we hadn't, we'd still be working on it, but we took care of alot of it ourselves. My husband, whom is much more handy than I am, worked on it on weekends and I did 7 days a week....all design, demolition, finding salvage (big savings), stripping paint, prep work and finish details, as well as dealing with the contractors we brought in. I'd say it's a $350-400k restoration, which we did for about $150k, but it's not for the faint of heart.
Posted by: $70persqft at June 1, 2007 5:20 PM
OP, I think given your attitude you will have an unpleasant experience and the people you interact with will have an unpleasant experience too, so why not save yourself the trouble. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 7:27 PM
OP, I think given your attitude you will have an unpleasant experience and the people you interact with will have an unpleasant experience too, so why not save yourself the trouble. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 7:28 PM
Nice way to dodge the question, 7:28 (and 7:27)
a pleasant experience = diving into things with an open check book and no idea? yep, very pleasant for any contractors fortunate enough to have someone like that as a customer.
My question springs from a genuine curiosity as to how the math of brownstone restoration works out. I don't believe there are only two types involved, professionals who squeeze every last buck out of it, and romantic owners who must throw away budgets, and treat their house like an expensive love affair.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 9:28 PM
OP: don't do it...you are not ready!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 1, 2007 11:07 PM
Sorry, I think you are a troll
Posted by: Anonymous at June 2, 2007 11:37 AM
Not everyone views their home as a strict investment, but also as a place they want to enjoy and like. These people may not like the renovations/new construction out there and are willing to pay extra for a renovation that is to their taste. Most of the time a person does a renovation its an investment loser but yet the home renovation business around the country makes a huge amount of money a year. The fact is people want to live in a home that they like, especially if they have the money for it :)
Posted by: AnnaBee at June 3, 2007 10:02 AM
I am doing this right now. Paid 620K for a brownstone in Bed Stuy that needed a lot of work. We are doing it ourselves with labor help, it should cost another 100K and take about, oh, 2-3 years because we can't afford not to work while we do this.
We are looking at the math as monthly cost of living over time. Right now we are youngish, have the money and can sweat, but later we really don't want to. So right now monthly expenses including carrying the whole mortgage and chipping away at the house is between 10-15K, which makes us wince.
But when he work is over and the garden is rented, our total monthly expenses go back down to roughly what we were paying to live in a crappy loft in Greenpoint in 2007: about 6.5K (with some money back for emergencies that renters don't have to consider).
And we have added security in two ways:
1. The mortgage never really goes up the way rents in this city do. If we are good about following the market then we will pay less not more every year, or at least balance out any increases in insurance and taxes. If rents continue to skyrocket, our cost of living could decrease tremendously, allowing us to save a lot of money for later painlessly.
2. If we really get into trouble or want to travel or whatever, we can always rent out the owners duplex and live in the garden apartment.
I wouldn't do this if I wasn't extremely handy, and yes, when I am sore and defeated on Monday morning after a weekend of House Surprises, it feels extremely stupid. But the bottom line is that I really like living in NYC, and I don't want the trajectory of a renter.
(Greenpoint to Bed Stuy to East New York and Beyond...)
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 8:35 AM
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