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June 4, 2007
Wall in hallway
I recently purchase a landmarked 3-family home that has 4-floors. My issue is that the duplex does not have a wall or doorway in the hallway to seperate it out from the rest of the house (i.e. you can walk in the main enterance, go down the hall, down the stairs and into my kitchen) and the top floor bathroom is only accessable through the hallway.
I'd like to build a wall on the top floor to make the bathroom part of the top floor apartment. It wouldn't block any of the fire exists or the sprinker.
I'd also like to build a new doorway on the main level to portion out my duplex from the rest of the building so that tenants cannot walk into my house.
What do I do?
Do I need permits?
I'd like to do the work myself, but don't want to go about this the wrong way.
Help?
Comments
As another DIYer i would say don't bother with permits. They way the building's department has it set up it takes a min. of six months to a year to get a permit on DIY work. Unless you have some very nosy and obnoxious neighbors i doubt anyone will know or care.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 1:29 PM
Of course you need a permit. Therefore you need an architect or engineer to submit and stamp drawings for you. You can probably get the approvals yourself, but an expediter would speed it up. The DoB does have some additional paperwork you have to sign if you are going to do the work yourself.
If your house currently has a CO for the duplexed units, you are ok and it's a minor alteration. If it's not currently a two family, you have to change the CO, which is cumbersome and lengthy, but that doesn't mean it will hold up your construction.
If your rental is not legal, your tenants can stay there and never pay you rent b/c it's an illegal apartment. And if there is an accident they can use you more easily. You legally cannot hold them under a lease.
It's better to save yourself the headache and hire an architect and expediter to figure this all out for you.
Don't take the advice of people doing illegal things. There is too much of that in NY already.
Posted by: Ale at June 4, 2007 2:17 PM
Why would you need an architect to put up an non load bearing wall to simply partition off the house -- assuming that's all the op wishes to do???
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:31 PM
You are changing your circulation patterns and thus you need to prove to the DoB that existing means of egress (door widths, lengths of travel, etc) are not disrupted by the added wall and the change in door location. If something tragic happens due to a fire, you'll be sued and potentially lose your house. That wouldn't be good.
Posted by: Alex at June 4, 2007 2:38 PM
Hiya, OP again: Yes, I want to put up two walls -- one on the first floor to partition off the legal duplex, and one on the thrid floor to partition off the legal apartment on that floor. It is a legal 3-family. No load bearing anything, but there is a sprinkler system. However, the partition on the 3rd floor would not interfere with the sprinkler head, nor the exit system in place. If I do it myself, what type of sheetrock would I use -- something fire resistant I am guessing. Thoughts? Snarks? Okay, more thoughts than snarks, please.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 2:40 PM
Don't bother with the city, especially if you're doing it yourself. It's not worth the aggrevation, and nobody bothers with the small residential stuff anyway.
You'll probably need 5/8 inch sheetrock and steel doors, since you're separating the living space from the hallway (ironically, since it was open in the first place...)
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 3:58 PM
On one hand (inexpensively wrong) your right, a permit wouldnt necesarily be needed, but on the other hand (cautiously correct) your wrong, because there is a possiblity egrees will be changed, as stated above along with affecting the sprinkler system and godforbid the fire department has to come to there and they cant get it. The first thing they are looking at is a blue print which shows the current layout..now, lets say you put up a wall or two or three which are not there..you have just harmed everyone attempting to come in or get out!
Dont think you want that on your chest...this is from a logical standpoint!
In all honesty, file the application, get the permits, make sure its done correctly. Dont start to do the work yourself and then you have a nosey person call 311 to say your doing work without a permit or too late, or its too noisey, then you now run into another problem...a $5k (civil penalty..not including ECB fine)violation for work without a permit.
Give us a call, we will help get your project on its way, CORRECTLY!!
-Tissony
Tissonybuildings@hotmail.com
718-844-1054
Posted by: Tissony Consultants at June 4, 2007 4:50 PM
Tissony -
Do you honestly believe the city has blueprints of everyone's home? That seems doubtful, especially with many of the older homes that exist in brooklyn.
Posted by: AnnaBee at June 4, 2007 5:48 PM
There are regulations about how close your sprinkler heads need to be to each other and to adjacent walls. If you don't know them and there is a fire and someone dies, you'll be sued and lose your home. Do you want THAT on your chest?
If you put up a partition and it is not correctly fire rated and a fire spreads from your tenants apartment into yours and you lose all your valuable posessions, would you want THAT on your chest?
Sure no one will care at first, until something bad happens, then you'll be in jail and your family will be homeless and penniless.
Hire an architect and a real contractor, at least for the important stuff. Put up wallpaper to your hearts content, but don't leave fire safety to youself. It's just not wise.
Posted by: chesty at June 4, 2007 6:37 PM
I did the exact work you are describing on my 3 family, 4 story brownstone and did not get permits - I didn't do it myself though, had a contractor do it. I didn't build a wall for the 3rd floor bathroom - I moved the door so the new bathroom door leads into the bedroom and sheetrocked over the old door and then put tile on the bathroom side of the wall.
For the wall on the parlor floor, we put sheetrock against the stairway (this is open on the bottom so the short hallway on the duplex side is not too closed in) and then another narrow piece which cuts off the hallway between the common space and the duplex apt. We made sure that these walls could be removed easily, in case one day we can afford to take the walls down and either live in the whole house or at least move into the top 3 floors and rent out the bottom.
HTH
Posted by: Anonymous at June 4, 2007 9:07 PM
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